Caliper recommendation or use a case gauge or both

[bbogue1]

I am a newbie in the market for a caliper. I really like the SE780DC dial caliper (Amazon $18.99) In the reviews I've read it receives high marks and in a few comparisons it fared as well as a Mitatoyo. The finish is better than most in the same price range. The repeatability is excellent. There is no battery to replace and it works well under 40 degrees. I am not sure the bezel will rotate to calibrate should there be an error. I reload 38 Special and 9mm What is your opinion.

Can a caliper be replaced by a case gauge? Maybe I do not need a caliper at all.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Really good question--almost worthy of a "sticky". There are dozens of calipers on the market, and most will serve the purposes of casters/reloaders. You usually get what you pay for, but even the less expensive calipers now days are good. You are correct that the ability to calibrate the caliper is a desirable feature. I'm not familiar with the one you've described, and although I've got some more expensive ones for machine work, when sitting at the reloading bench I usually reach for my made-in-China $19.95 special. You haven't described the operations you intend to use it for, and depending on what they are you might be able to get away without one. For example, if it is for determining case length, then certainly a case length gauge will tell you if the case is too long, and a trim die will let you trim to length. You may find a micrometer, 0-1" , better for some measuring purposes like bullet diameters. But for most measuring I use a dial caliper that can be recalibrated, and in about 20 years of use I've only had to recalibrate it once.

[Electric88]

I would jump on that set of calipers, as they will help you at not a bad price. I have case gages, but in my opinion they should not replace calipers. I use my calipers for set up for various calibers and other things.

[jmorris]

I can't find anything on "se780dc" so I have no idea what you are looking at but I have calipers all over the place, house, shop, truck, farm and use them all the time. I also have case gauges, so I guess I am a "both" guy.

If I could only have one, it would be the caliper.

Found it SE-780dc worked.

https://www.amazon.com/SE-780DC-Dial-Caliper-Only/dp/B0019O501A/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1484581505&sr=8-19&keywords=Caliper

Looks like it should do the job. The knob on top locks the jaw(s) position on the beam the knob on the bottom holds the bezel wherever you set it.

[Omega]

For reloading both can have benefits. I reload for 300Blk and .277 Wlv, both of which are made from cut down 5.56 cases. I use a Sheridan slot case guage which touches upon all the critical measurements all at once. The calipers, along with a good OAL guage that measures off the ogive comes in real handy as well. I have a few calipers, a couple good ones, and a couple of Harbor Freight ones ($10 ea), they, so far, have been pretty darn close. Close enough for reloading anyway, if machining, then maybe a higher quality one is in order.

[country gent]

A good set of calipers are indespensible on the loading bench and in the reloading gun room. Along with in the shop. I have used Mitoyo, Starrets, Helios, And some others both digital and dials. Digitals are handy and simple. On the dials watch for the dials some are 1 revolution =.100 others are 1 revolution=.200 I find the later harder to read at a glance. A set of michrometers is also very handy for more accurate readings.

[Drew P]

For sure no digital calipers! Pain in the *** to read, and keep alive with batteries.
Above advice on dials is critical. You want .100" per revolution. .200 are stupid.
Cheap Chinese calipers are a **** shoot. In the old days they were more reliable. Now they can be pretty bad, or fairly decent.
My favorite is B&S, without thumb wheel. Can be had for about 80$ on eBay. I'd suggest those personally.

[6bg6ga]

You can get an accurate reading from a $4 set of plastic calipers provided you can read them. It seems to be a lost art anymore. Anyway, I use dial calipers, micrometer,and case gauge when checking my cases.

[Bullwolf]

I have a couple inexpensive dial calipers that I use to check loaded cartridge OAL with. (Overall All Length)

I keep a spare set of dial calipers inside my portable reloading bag, along with a hand press for the same reason.

I generally prefer to use the easier to read battery operated digital calipers to check cartridge OAL's with. They are quick to use, and easy on old eyes - as long as the battery is still good.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117712&d=1411960835&thumb=1 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117717&d=1411960905&thumb=1

The simple and reliable dial caliper has no batteries to worry about though.

https://blueridgefirearms.com/images/f/r/franpic516503.jpg

Case gauges can also be useful. They won't allow you to measure critical cartridge dimensions however, they just let you know if the ammunition you have assembled will possibly fit in the chamber.

I find case gauges are more useful when you don't have access to the cylinder or barrel of that particular firearm to gauge your ammo with. Many refer to this as performing a "plunk" test.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114719&d=1391328588

Plunk examples, in the images below.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117715&d=1411960880&thumb=1 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117714&d=1411960872&thumb=1

If it plunks, it fits.

When I'm loading at a different location, such as one that's away from the firearm... Then a quality case gauge like a Wilson is the next best thing IMO.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117716&d=1411960890&thumb=1

Do realize that if you assemble too small ammunition, or are over crimping your ammunition it may also "fit" and you won't easily be able to tell as you aren't really measuring the ammunition when using case gauges.

I have an assortment of Dillon and Wilson case gauges. I keep them inside the caliber appropriate reloading die boxes so they are easily available. I don't think you can replace a good set of calipers by using case gauges though.

A micrometer is a more useful tool than calipers for taking smaller accurate measurements of critical dimensions, like a slug after it's been driven through a barrel or cylinder throat, or the actual size of a cast boolit

Much like the boolit in the image below.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52388&d=1305432442

That boolit was photographed in the digital calipers to more easily show the .451 size, but was actually measured using the harder to read vernier micrometer below it.

In this case I had loaded a .452 diameter boolit as I always do, but I added an unnecessary step at the very end, using the inexpensive yet popular Lee Carbide Factory Crimp post sizing die.

The Lee CFCD (Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die) swaged, or squeezed my cast boolit down to .451 diameter through the cartridge brass, as you can readily from the pulled and measured boolit in the above image.

This was due in part to the over sized cast boolit I was using, and the thickness of my cartridge brass. This doesn't always happen using this type of die, but this combination was the perfect storm, and all the tolerances were on the larger side of things, causing the boolit diameter to shrink. Something to watch out for if you use a Lee CFCD in some situations with oversize cast boolits.

I can generally get away without sizing my 45 ACP boolits for my old Colt, as it has very generous tolerances and will not choke on a boolit as large as .453

However history has shown that if I size all my boolits to .452, I won't encounter any stoppages, or assemble any ammunition that will not gauge, or plunk so I've learned to size all of my boolits irregardless to prevent any stoppages.

So I size ALL of my boolits as a quality control step now, even if they don't necessarily need to be sized. I also find it easier to size them, rather than measure every single boolit with a micrometer before loading.

Even though many of my cast boolits can just be tumble lubed and loaded simply "as cast" without requiring sizing, I'll still do it anyways .

Boolits cast from a harder or larger cast alloy may drop as large as .454 -.455 and they will not fit or plunk at all. Sometimes casting accidents can slip through as well, like finned or out of rounds boolits when you don't close the mould completely, or have a speck of lead stuck between the block cavity faces.

Boolits that end up this large MUST be sized down to .452 to work in all of my pistols, or culled. I use a simple Lee .452 press mounted Lube and Sizing kit to do this.
http://www.titanreloading.com/image/cache/data/Products/90055-250x250.jpg
Though in days past I've also used a Lyman 450 or 4500 Lube Sizer.

The point I'm trying to make here, is that you can miss a variance of .001 quite easily with a pair of calipers, and assemble ammunition that either may not fit, or could perform poorly. The micrometer is a tool that's much better suited for checking the more critical dimensions, when thousandths of an inch matter.

When I use too small .451 boolits in my old Colt.... They will fit and chamber, but they leave lead deposits in my barrel, and my accuracy will also suffer.

When I use .452 boolits, everything works great. The boolits will also fit in all of my other 45 ACP pistols.

If I use too large .453 boolits, they will only reliably chamber in my old Colt pistol, and not in any of my other newer pistols. Yet they still will shoot well in the Colt.

If I use .454 or larger boolits, they are too large to fit and function in any my 45 Auto pistols.

The case gauge will readily accept a range of boolit sizes, and won't let you know if the boolit is too small. (as they will still fit)

Each measuring tool is useful for different applications when it comes to hand loading quality ammunition, instead of stuff that just goes bang.



- Bullwolf

[country gent]

ANother handy item with calipers or larger michrometers is a set of standards to check zero and accuracy. I have seen dial caliper that "grew" .003 thru the range. with out standards or gages you may never find this. Another thing to check on calipers is that all four measurements are the same, out side, inside and both depth measurements.

[Drew P]

I find it interesting how some people find digital calipers easier to read. I feel they are much harder to read, especially given repetitive similar measuring like we find in reloading. But, I also hate the metric system so I'm sure it's a "me problem"

[Omega]

I find it interesting how some people find digital calipers easier to read. I feel they are much harder to read, especially given repetitive similar measuring like we find in reloading. But, I also hate the metric system so I'm sure it's a "me problem"Most digitals can display mm or inches, I can't see it getting any easier, no guessing if the needle is closer to one line or the other.

[smokeywolf]

You should definitely have a caliper.

If you'll be transitioning between inch and metric measurements frequently and not good at doing the conversion in your head. If you're a little fumble-fingered and likely to drop them from time to time, buy the digitals.

I have digitals, but made my living as an engineer and machinist and had to have a set that could plug in to SPC. Also have and much prefer dial and even vernier. Was taught that, when it comes to tools, always buy the best you can afford.

My favorite brands are: Tesa, Brown and Sharpe, Starrett, Mitutoyo, Fowler.

[juggernault98]

I have both. Frankfort arsenal caliper and a Lyman case gauge. I trust my caliper over that Lyman thick sheet metal. When I put my case in it there is a gap near the top which always sets of an alarm. (Idk why I've never had a case for
Shorter than.744 9mm) personal preference maybe due to me wanting to see the numbers


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[LittleLebowski]

For sure no digital calipers! Pain in the *** to read, and keep alive with batteries.
Above advice on dials is critical. You want .100" per revolution. .200 are stupid.
Cheap Chinese calipers are a **** shoot. In the old days they were more reliable. Now they can be pretty bad, or fairly decent.
My favorite is B&S, without thumb wheel. Can be had for about 80$ on eBay. I'd suggest those personally.

I have no battery issues with cheap digital calipers, had this one for years. http://amzn.to/2jV4wOT My eyes are still good for now, so no help on reading the screen :D

I case gauge and use calipers. Spot-check with calipers after I get the load dialed in and case gauge everything.

[Shawlerbrook]

I use the Frankfort Arsenal digital calipers. I find them very easy to read and use. After one dead battery, I now take out the battery when I am done using them. No problems now. I also have a cheap HF dial set as back up and they are definitely accurate enough for most reloaders.

[jmorris]

I have no battery issues with cheap digital calipers, had this one for years

Now you've done it, had I said something like that, they would be dead next time I picked them up.

I do like my digital calipers, especially for comparison or working off "zeros" somewhere other than actual zero. Making sure the case doesn't hit the on button when the lid is closed and keeping at least two spare batteries solves the problem of having nothing to measure with for the most part.

I keep dials in my truck because I don't have to keep track of anything except the caliper. Vernier at the farm because nothing is more durable or will last as long as they will.

[country gent]

My digital mitoyos batteries seem to last about 2 years for me. even when they were being used at work daily. One plus to digitals is for repetitive work or sorting they can be zeroed any where along their range so you read zero and +/- instead of the actual dimension.

[Plate plinker]

I use both gauge and caliper. You can get by without the gauge but one should definitely have a caliper.

[kmw1954]

I have a Mitutoyo dial that I've owned for almost 40 years. Use it constantly. Wouldn't be without one.

[hc18flyer]

I use both an economical caliper and case gauges. I think my digital caliper came from HF, I truly believe it is accurate for what I do. I continue to learn, exactly why I have been following this Thread! hc18flyer

[Tom W.]

I have both a dial and a digital from Frankfort Arsenal. The digital is great for seeing what the difference in the OAL is. The batteries are a witch to keep alive. Another handy thing is a non-electric digital micrometer. I have a 0-1inch and a 1-2 inch.

[bbogue1]

Fantastic responses. Do you use a pin gauge to check the accuracy of the caliper outside dimension and depth measurements? I see that the case gauge checks length and girth but not undersize and is the fastest gauge. A micrometer is more accurate but not digital and can measure only outside dimensions.

[Steve Steven]

One thing to keep in mind, ALWAYS use silver oxide batteries in digital calipers. These batteries last a LOT longer than alkaline batteries, alkaline go dead fast.

Steve

[Omega]

Fantastic responses. Do you use a pin gauge to check the accuracy of the caliper outside dimension and depth measurements? I see that the case gauge checks length and girth but not undersize and is the fastest gauge. A micrometer is more accurate but not digital and can measure only outside dimensions.As I said above, the most critical use for me is reloading, so I only compare the calipers against each other, one is a Starrett and another a Mitutoyo both dial, and a couple micrometers of the same two brands so if one is an outlier, I will either send it off for repair, or in the case of the HF ones, junk them.

As far as the case guage, I picked the Sheridan slotted guage because it has the best, to me, indicators. The slot allows you to quickly see if the neck is pushed back enough, length of case and loaded round etc. I only have these for the cases I form myself, since they haven't been fired the shoulder sometimes isn't set back far enough, or trimmed enough etc, etc.

185500
185502

[hc18flyer]

Steve Steven;3915317]One thing to keep in mind, ALWAYS use silver oxide batteries in digital calipers. These batteries last a LOT longer than alkaline batteries, alkaline go dead fast.

Where do I look for 'silver oxide' batteries for my caliper? Thanks, hc18flyer

[ulav8r]

I know of no gauge that can be used to check/adjust COAL. With the many newer cartridges introduced in the last few years, gauges may not be available, whereas a caliper can be used to check case length, rim diameter/thickness, bullet diameter, and many other dimensions.

About bullet diameter, the caliper can sort diameter between .308 versus .311 or larger, but for cast bullet diameter differences caused by different alloys you need a micrometer capable of measuring to .0001".

[Drew P]

Most digitals can display mm or inches, I can't see it getting any easier, no guessing if the needle is closer to one line or the other.
Mm? Not in my reloading room!

[Omega]

I know of no gauge that can be used to check/adjust COAL. With the many newer cartridges introduced in the last few years, gauges may not be available, whereas a caliper can be used to check case length, rim diameter/thickness, bullet diameter, and many other dimensions.

About bullet diameter, the caliper can sort diameter between .308 versus .311 or larger, but for cast bullet diameter differences caused by different alloys you need a micrometer capable of measuring to .0001".
Check the pic of the Sheridan, if set on end (tip down) on a flat surface, the round will go up into the gauge and give you a reading of COAL at the top, no numbers or anything, but it will read COAL. Not saying that the calipers are not up to the task, they are, but these gauges have saved me a little time setting up my dies. For all my pistol rounds I do the plunk test, no gauge, and even my rifle rounds will get a plunk test because my particular rifle may or may not be at min/max. I also have a Hornady bullet comparator and OAL gauge to actually get some numbers (with the calipers), but these Sheridans are great with wildcats.

[Omega]

Mm? Not in my reloading room!Don't like digital, or your set doesn't do both?

[Drew P]

Don't like digital, or your set doesn't do both?
I don't like digital because for me, when I read digital I have to "think" about the number I'm reading and translate it into something that makes sense. A simple number like 2.685 means nothing for a second, it's an extra step in my mind that takes effort. A dial can be read and my eye can do the thinking. 2.685 is .015 away from 2.7. It has relevance where a digital is just numbers. For instance. Tell me which one is bigger 2.658 or 2.674? Well it's not hard to see the second measurement is bigger, but you had to THINK about it, whereas with a dial caliper you just see it. No thinking.

That fact, plus the need for batteries far outweighs the convenience of having a MM button. I can do those conversions as needed.

Also, the person who mentioned how you can zero them and take comparative measurements. While this is true, I have had frustrations where I push the zero button while using them, and if you don't notice you can have a whole bunch of pain. I often hold my calipers in my armpit while I'm working with both of my arms.

The person above who is a machinist and engineer said it best, use digital calipers when you need to plug them into a data logging computer. Use dials everywhere else.

As a kid I learned that any mm measurement multiplied by .03937 converts to decimal. Divide to work in reverse. It's easy. This is how fabricators work with blueprints every day. It's fast and reliable.

[1hole]

One inch micrometers are nice to have but six inch dial calipers are more useful and they never need batteries. Generally speaking, 1 thou reading Mics are good to a half thou. Dial calipers are accurate to 1 thou (many are better than that) and digital calipers are good to a half thou - plus or minus one digit. The lower priced calipers are Chinese and those sold under various reloading tool makers are all from the same China factory and branded the buyer requires.

I do some hobby machine work and have a costly Swiss made professional vernier caliper, which is rugged and precise accurate to the limits of my vision, and a Brown and Sharp dial; both are excellent tools but they're far more costly than is needed for reloading. I also have Chinese calipers branded by Midway, Lyman and two Harbor Freights, all 6", costs varied from $10 (Harbor Freight, on sale) to $35 Lyman, they are identical to a $65 RCBS, they are all identical and within normal specifications so brand and price is no guide to anything for reloading calipers; I use the low cost Chinese calipers for ALL of my reloading. I know some local pro machine shops use ONLY the Harbor Freight brand calipers because they are plenty accurate and sufficiently durable. There is no justification to reloaders paying $160 (+) for professional grade B&S, Starrett, Mitotoyo tools.

You would be well served with that tool, especially if you get the Hornady LnL case and seating depth attachments to use with it, and you wouldn't benefit with a micrometer for a long time.

(Note: We users don't "calibrate" dial calipers, we only set the dial's bezel to zero when the jaws are closed; the calibration accuracy is established by the rack and pinion gearing and that can't be adjusted.)

Drop-in case gauges indicate the cases are within the SAAMI plus or minus tolerances, you still won't know what the actual dimensions are. I have a couple, they haven't been used in maybe thirty years.

[Eddie Southgate]

I have Browne & Sharpe , Starrett and K&D Dial calipers . No case gauge.

Eddie

[ulav8r]

I checked the Sheridan website. They had 13 calibers available at $36 each. $36 would buy a good dial caliper that would cover all 1404 cartridges listed in the conversions spreadsheet downloaded from this site a few weeks ago, many of which are obsolete.

If Sheridan could be persuaded to make gauges in each of those calibers at no added cost for the specials, they would total up to $50,544. Get a premium caliper and you would be far ahead on cost. If you do lots of loading of 2 or three of the available Sheridan offerings, use the gauge if it makes you happy.

[No Blue]

I got 3 Chinese dials, and a HF digital. Maybe more. But I used the test standards that came with my Mititoyo Combi-mikes to check how accurate they were. Within a half a thou out to the 3 inch standard, so that's more than good enough for our uses.

Also have 3 vernier, bought those 30+ years ago when the dial ones were about $150 in todays money. You can really tell whom the old timers are if they have verniers.....probably 1 or 2 in 100 could figure out how to read it if they're a millennial....

If everybody had and used a caliper, probably half the 'why is this happening' questions would cease. They could measure it, figure out that the .500" diameter brass isn't going to go into the .490" chamber no matter how hard they want it to fit.

The really scary part is they're trying to make ammo and might be next to me at the range! Who knows what they screwed up.

[David2011]

Fantastic responses. Do you use a pin gauge to check the accuracy of the caliper outside dimension and depth measurements? I see that the case gauge checks length and girth but not undersize and is the fastest gauge. A micrometer is more accurate but not digital and can measure only outside dimensions.

If you have a good zero and a jacketed bullet measures correctly you're close enough for reloading. Quality J bullets are very precisely sized. You should only have a digital caliper if you already have a mechanical one IMO.

[3jimbo3]

I went to HF (Harbor Freight) with a coupon and got a set of digital calipers with a case and spare battery for $6.00 and tax. I was skeptical and probably would have passed on them had it not been for the coupon. I brought them home and grabbed a couple of standards just to check and they are spot on. I use them mostly for checking case length and OAL after loading.

I use my Starret mic to check bullet diameters, for me the mic is just easier to get a more accurate reading.

I think the HF calipers are the same as the Frankfort Arsenal just in different clothing. They look the same anyway?? Just my opinion


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