Questions Regarding 357 170 grain In 4" GP100

[Kawriverrat]

Been shooting & casting boolits for a while. After some time I'm getting back into it. I am able to shoot often. I am not able to buy new barrels or replace revolvers that get beat up from just being shot a lot or from use of warm loads. Bullets weighing less tha 158 grains driven over 1200 fps have for me started showing wear on my guns in a few thousand rounds which is to be expected. Cast dont seem to be quite as bad.
I am looking for 2 loads. However the one in question here deals with a 170 grain SWC as an every day load. Gun is a 4" GP100.

Can this boolit be driven be driven to 1100 fps for 5000 plus rounds with out the forcing cone erosion & other issues that can come up? Is this just asking to much?

I am fully aware this can be done safely. I'm just wanting to see good longevity with this revolver. Thats my main goal. As far as performance I want a load that will pass through both shoulders of a deer with decent accurracy out to 50 yards. Thoughts & suggestions PLEASE.... Thanks Jeff

[Bigslug]

What you are discussing should be a pussycat load for a GP-100 - one that is well below what Elmer Keith was doing with his N-frame-only +P+ .38 Special rounds stoked with the 173 grain 358429 SWC. We've got decades of data for that puppy - if it ate guns up, we'd have heard about it by now.

The old .38 +P 158 grain LSWCHP "FBI load" at a shade under 900 fps penetrates admirably on the more modern "heavy clothing" gelatin test protocol, which would probably be a pretty fair representation of deer hide and hair.

You'll probably want something hotter than that just for sake of trajectory. By that logic, your cast 170 grains at 1100 fps concept seems to me like a perfectly sensible hunting load that isn't trying to channel the ghost of Roy Weatherby in the slightest. Will it wear out a GP-100 (or anything else) faster than a 700 fps wadcutter load? Sure, but it is in no way approaching what Bill Ruger had in mind for the gun. You'll probably exceed the cost of the revolver in components before you kill the gun with that load.

[gpidaho]

I would hate to even attempt to guess how many rounds of cast and jacketed bullets have gone down range out of my GP 100 357 in the last twenty years. They are built to shoot. With the load you mention, your gun will most likely out last both of us. lol Gp

[fecmech]

Can this boolit be driven be driven to 1100 fps for 5000 plus rounds with out the forcing cone erosion & other issues that can come up? Is this just asking to much?
I have a 6" GP100 that I purchased in the early 90's. The standard load I've used is max 296/H110 load of powder behind 358429 weighing in at 173 grs and clocking just under 1300 fps. I don't have an exact round count but it's conservatively between 15-20K. You aren't going to hurt your your Ruger a bit.

[Kawriverrat]

fecmech, at the round count your giving, with that load & powder, I'm very curious, what does the forcing cone on your gun look like?

I know the GP100 is stout. Ive had model 28's, 5 & 686's & a 19 which I still have. However I did sell GP100 that was in need of a new barrel. The new owner wasnt botherd by this. Being he was going to shorten the barrel. This did not have the top strap erosion that my model 28's all had. While I like the model 28 I am not as fond of it for 357 as Skeeter Skelton was & others seem to be.
Glad to see you mention the 358429 some version of this boolit mold is what I'm wanting. Thanks for the replies....Jeff

[Bigslug]

Well, the negative with the 358429 is that it probably won't FIT in a GP100 when loaded in a .357 case locating the crimp groove at the mouth as designed. Got to remember it has a long nose and was originally designed for a .38 case. You might do better to consider one of the LFN/WFN designs.

Then again, just load it hot in .38 cases as was originally intended. The reason for the extra case length was more about making the vesself for the hot load so that it wouldn't fit into older K-frames and blow them up rather than to gain powder capacity.

[Kawriverrat]

Then again, just load it hot in .38 cases as was originally intended.

No problem doing that if needed. Any other issues. Will this bullet do well at the velocity I'm wanting
1100 fps ? Asking because others who use this boolit seem to be getting best accuracy at higher velocities.

[Mk42gunner]

The 358429 in magnum cases in a GP100 is one of those cases where you have to check the fit of your own boolits and cylinder. Mine fits, there isn't much room left, but it fits.

I have never chronographed any of my 358429 loads from that gun.

Robert

[telebasher]

Well, the negative with the 358429 is that it probably won't FIT in a GP100 when loaded in a .357 case locating the crimp groove at the mouth as designed. Got to remember it has a long nose and was originally designed for a .38 case. You might do better to consider one of the LFN/WFN designs.

Then again, just load it hot in .38 cases as was originally intended. The reason for the extra case length was more about making the vesself for the hot load so that it wouldn't fit into older K-frames and blow them up rather than to gain powder capacity.

My son's GP-100 chambers the 358429 loaded to the crimp groove just fine. I load with either 2400 or HS-6 to 1150-1200 fps. Will print <2 inch groups @ 25 yds quite easily off sandbags. Have fired 700 - 800 of these loads with no problems plus at least that many wadcutters.

[rockshooter]

Bear in mind that while forcing cone erosion in your GP will remind you that it is no longer new, it takes a lot of erosion to have any effect on accuracy or function. Shooting a steady diet of cast bullets, plan on handing a good revolver to your grandkids.
Loren

[Kawriverrat]

Bear in mind that while forcIing cone erosion in your GP will remind you that it is no longer new, it takes a lot of erosion to have any effect on accuracy or function.
Loren

It seemed that once it started in my other guns which were Smiths it progressed rather rapidly. However that was mostly shooting hp bullets. Looks like I'll be ordering a Lyman 358429. Have to send my GP back to Ruger. The gun at this point has had less than 150 rounds through it. The cylinder rubs on the end of the barrel when closing, there is no measurable headspace & cylinder gap measures differently on left & right side.
Oh & the firing pin protrusion is not within specs. It is what it is. Seen the same stuff on newer Smiffs.
I would like thank you all for your wisdom & replies. Any other comments are of course appreciated....Jeff

[rintinglen]

To answer the Original Question, 5000 38-44 loads will have a minimal affect on your GP. A 170 grain boolit traveling at 1100 fps will wear the gun sooner than the same boolit at 800 fps, but I would state that you'd be 2 or three times your 5,000 round limit.

[tja6435]

You'd be serving yourself well if you ordered that mold from NOE rather than Lyman.

[fecmech]

fecmech, at the round count your giving, with that load & powder, I'm very curious, what does the forcing cone on your gun look like?
My forcing cone is just fine, edges obviously lightly stippled from the 296 granuals but no accuracy effect. With the load I stated, off the bench normal 5 shot groups are in the 2-2.5" range@50 yds. You may not be able to crimp a 358429 in the crimp groove, I can't in my GP. It is no big deal. I load to an oal of 1.638" and lightly taper crimp on the front drive band, I get no bullet pull from recoil.

[Loudy13]

Just want to mention Ruger's customer service, if you wear out that barrel by some odd chance they will most likely replace it no questions asked. I ruined the barrel (don't wanna really explain how) on my GP100 and the LGS said send it in, I did and it came back with a new barrel sight and they reworked the sear. For free!!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

You never mentioned what powder you are using.
Lil'Gun has been reported to erode throats prematurely in Magnum revolvers.

I load the 168gr in 38spl, with +P+ loads for defense.

[osteodoc08]

You never mentioned what powder you are using.
Lil'Gun has been reported to erode throats prematurely in Magnum revolvers.

I load the 168gr in 38spl, with +P+ loads for defense.

It is much more pronounced in light for caliber boolits. I attempted to use LG before I knew better with some 170gr Sierras out of my 41 Mag..........Immediate noticeable forcing cone erosion. Oops. Haven't repeated that mistake again.

[ironhead7544]

For a lead load at that speed, IMR4227 puts less wear on a revolver than other powders IME.

[Kawriverrat]

You never mentioned what powder you are using.
Lil'Gun has been reported to erode throats prematurely in Magnum revolvers.

I load the 168gr in 38spl, with +P+ loads for defense. I've used 2400 in the past. However there are a lot of powders capable of giving the velocity I want using less. Is this load in the range where the slower powders will work best ? I'm all ears regarding suggestions.

fecmech, thanks for getting back with that reply....Jeff

[Kawriverrat]

For a lead load at that speed, IMR4227 puts less wear on a revolver than other powders IME.

ironhead, not doubting you. But what do you base this on. Any one else have thoughts regarding this...Jeff

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

You never mentioned what powder you are using.
Lil'Gun has been reported to erode throats prematurely in Magnum revolvers.


I load the 168gr in 38spl, with +P+ loads for defense.

I've used 2400 in the past. However there are a lot of powders capable of giving the velocity I want using less. Is this load in the range where the slower powders will work best ? I'm all ears regarding suggestions.

fecmech, thanks for getting back with that reply....Jeff

Recently, I used AL-7 for that 38spl +P+ load going about 875fps (16Kcup per lyman), as I had a few cans of that to use up.

If I were to load up some 357M using the 170gr to a 1100fps load, and I needed to buy powder, I'd probably start by trying AA#9 or Enforcer.

Mostly, I just felt it prudent to mention Lil'Gun as a poor choice for magnum revolver, as there is history. But, I do really like Lil'gun in 22 hornet.

[44man]

ironhead, not doubting you. But what do you base this on. Any one else have thoughts regarding this...Jeff
Powder shape. Ball powder will just sandblast more. But the life of a Ruger is lifetimes.
My .44 has exceeded 82,000 heavy loads of 296 and has not lost accuracy, the edges are sandblasted but the cone itself is still pristine.
Heavy boolits are better too, powder burns better. I would not worry at all.
Relax and have fun.

[ironhead7544]

ironhead, not doubting you. But what do you base this on. Any one else have thoughts regarding this...Jeff

Many years of use in 357,41, 44 Magnum. The revolvers do not get hot as fast as other powders and the bullets leave less leading in the bore. The only problem is that a bit of powder fouling builds up. IMR4227 was designed for the pistol sized rifle cartridges like the 44 WCF and 38 WCF. In the rifles it burns clean when loaded properly.

As usual, YMMV.

[44man]

What I found was the 4227's in the .44 would increase velocity with gun heat. But it was the cats meow in the .357 Max. I don't know about the .357, don't have one. 2400 worked for years. Still a great powder.

[Kawriverrat]

44 man & iron head thanks for replying. I will be giving IMR 4227 & AA9 a try. While I dont remember using either I've heard good things regarding their use for 357 mag. I am sure I will be able to get good accuracy with most any of the appropriate powders. It's just nice to know the ones that have a record over a period of time....Jeff

[44man]

Each caliber has different needs for sure. So keep us informed with results. I only know what I shoot but friends have all others so help is always needed.

[fecmech]

MY best results for 358429 at speed were with max loads of 296/H110. I've used 2400 and AA9, they are both good powders but 296/H110 always had an accuracy edge over them.

[tejano]

My every day mag load for the GP100 is Rimrock's 170 gr. Keith and 5.3-5.5 gr. of Titegroup.