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Murphy
06-26-2008, 03:03 AM
I'll do my best to keep this short and simple.

Boolit: Group Buy Keith #358429
Weight: 171.0 Avg
Lube: Felix
Alloy: WW's + 2% tin

Brass: New WW cases .357
Primer: WW SP

Gun: Smith & Wesson Model 28-2
Barrel Lenght: 4"

Okay, this boolit will not crimp in the crimp groove without being too long. So this being the case, I'm going to have to seat it a bit shorter and crimp on the front driving band, NOT OVER IT. Lyman recommends 1.553 OAL.

The powders I intend to experiment with are 2400 and H-110

I have no desire to hot rod .38 cases to yester year's loads, so any loads in .38 cases are not an option.

Will those of you who have experience with the above listed information, be so kind as to share any load data you have gathered?

Thanks,

Murphy

45 2.1
06-26-2008, 06:42 AM
Since your not going to use 38 spl cases, why don't you trim your 357 cases to a length that will allow you to crimp in the groove properly. Then try starting at 13.5 gr. of 2400 and go up slowly until your happy with the load.

Murphy
06-27-2008, 10:51 PM
Bumping back up, anyone?

Thanks,

Murphy

Maven
06-28-2008, 09:14 AM
Murphy, I have the same problem, but with a Lyman #358429. 45.2.1 is correct: Trim your .357mag. brass to ~1.25" and the problem should be solved.

Tristan
06-28-2008, 11:23 AM
Murphy -

I've had real good luck with 2400 through the years, but haven't worked with it (yet!) in 357. I am going to be following along with you in this loading experiment, and will be working with 2400 and 820.

It's been too bloody hot to be casting of late, however.

-Tristan

fecmech
06-28-2008, 12:21 PM
Murphy--I'm loading to an oal of 1.638 to just fit in my Ruger GP100 6". I'm using the Lyman 358429 and a light taper crimp on the front driving band of the bullet. I have no problems with the bullets walking out of the case from recoil. Some of my chrono data as follows all are 10 sot strings or more:

13.5/2400/WWprime/50/50 ww/lino bullet/168 grs-1254 fps.
Same but federal sp prime--------------------------------1291 fps
Same load out of a Rossi single shot 24" bbl----------1689 fps
15.3/296/RP 5 1/2 primer/--------------------------------1289 fps
10.0/Blue Dot/RP- 5 1/2/-----------------------------------1250 fps
15.2/wc820/RP 1 1/2 prime/WWcase--------------------1304 fps
" " " /Starline case--------------1258 fps

All the above loads will group under 3"@ 50 yds out of my Ruger.

Doc Highwall
07-08-2008, 08:39 PM
The S&W Model 27 and 28 are made on the N frame, and when they first came out the cylinder length was made for the 357mag with a 158gr bullet. The model 19 and 66 on the K frame was made for the 38spl with a 200gr bullet that has a longer OAL then the 357mag, Elmer Keith designed the 358429 for this length cylinder. Also this bullet will not fit in the Colt Python but will fit in the Dan Wesson, Ruger and any revolver that predates the NEW most powerful hand gun in the world. I found this out when I use to run the silhouette matches at my gun club. By fit I mean OAL with a 357mag case.

JRR
07-08-2008, 11:47 PM
I used to have a mod. 28 4" . I loaded the Lyman version in the crimp groove after trimming the brass a few thous. Put a sized, but unloaded shell in the chamber. Measure with your calipers from the base of the shell, across the primer pocket to the front of the cylinder. Subtract approx. .005" and you have your OAL. Make sure you have good bullet pull and a firm crimp.

Curly James
07-20-2008, 12:30 PM
WW brass or whatever I have clean
11.5 grains 2400
WW SPP
Boolit is cast from range scrap/sized to .358 and lubed with a beeswax,moly,parafin mix and is crimped OVER the front driving band.
Velocity runs around 1050 fps average from a 4 inch 686.
Very accurate with one inch groups from a rest at 25 yards.
My very favorite load for a .357 magnum.

HeavyMetal
07-20-2008, 12:54 PM
+1 on trimming the case's to a use able length.

I will suggest you get the Lee trimmer set up with the collet set up for a cordless drill.

At this point you can trim just a bit off the pin that goes through the flash hole until you get a case length that allows you to crimp properly and not have the boolit nose sticking out the end of the case. It doesn't sound like you need to shorten a lot but you are going to shorten a bunch.

As mentioned earlier this 358429 was designed to do something else at a time when magnum case's were real hard to find.

BCB
07-20-2008, 03:55 PM
Or, get a Ruger...BCB

NoDakJak
07-21-2008, 05:14 AM
Aw come on Murphy, Ya wounded me to the core. Ten grains of the new 2400 nets me an average of 1046 from my six inch Colt 357 and slightly less from my various four inch K frames. About twenty years ago a friend borrowed a box of these loads and reported that they work just fine in his elderly six inch Military & Police. He took both a Mule deer doe and a White Tail doe and stated that they dropped just as fast as when he used his old 30-30. You can just grab a box and it will fit any of your 38s or 357s. Not recommended but in my younger (Ignorant) days I fired thousands of them in both blued and stainless Chiefs Specials with no ill effects. Gotta be the most accurate loads that I have found in the majority of 38 and 357 revolvers. Give it a try. Neil

NoDakJak
07-21-2008, 05:16 AM
Oops! I neglected to mention that the above loads were in military brass that I have been shooting since the mid sixties. Neil

TCLouis
07-21-2008, 11:09 PM
NoDakJak

Is that 38 spl military brass?

357Mag
07-22-2008, 05:33 AM
Murph -

RX =
Lyman 358429 over 14.5 WW296 and a SP Mag primer

I have shot this load for over 30 yr in 4, 5, and 6" "N"s; and have found no
powder/charge that works better.

Best regards,
.357Mag

NoDakJak
07-22-2008, 03:30 PM
Yep! They were 38 Special brass. Navy issue. Victory Model S&Ws were issued to the pilots and us lowlifes toted them on guard duty. All the ammo that I saw or fired was tracer Started one Duzie of a grass fire the last time that I went to fire qualifacation. Those tracers saved a lot of pilots lives though. Most of my remaining brass has headstamps from 1964 and 65. I think that it is just about time to order a thousand new cases. Probably less than one percent of my shooting has been with 357 cases but that will be changing now that I acquire both a Marlin and Rossi carbines. Neil

TCLouis
07-22-2008, 08:53 PM
NoDakJak

"One" More Load question

Are you seating the 358429 to the crimp groove with the 10.0 New 2400 and 38spl Military brass.
I have yet to get a decent boolit group with my "new" GP100, so I am interested in all possibilities.
180 REM HPs and Lil Gun does well but I am switching over to boolits in all my guns if possible. I hope to get at least one this fall with the GP100 and I know our deer are smaller than Mulies.

LAH
08-09-2008, 09:33 AM
Okay, this boolit will not crimp in the crimp groove without being too long. So this being the case, I'm going to have to seat it a bit shorter and crimp on the front driving band, NOT OVER IT. Lyman recommends 1.553 OAL.

Will those of you who have experience with the above listed information, be so kind as to share any load data you have gathered?

For your problem I'm with the trim the case crowd. With the 170 Keith I like 'bout 14 grs. of 2400 or 15 grs. of H110. Both are very good loads and will make the 357 do 'bout all it can.
Creeker

NoDakJak
08-10-2008, 12:12 AM
TCLouis: Sorry about taking so long to get back to you. Yes, I am seating in the crimp groove with both military and commercial brass. I can't remember the numbers offhand but I trim to the recommmended length in the Speer Handbook. I fired thousands of rounds with 11.0 grains of the old 2400 with perfect satisfaction. I have dropped the load to 10.0 grains with the new 2400. I tried 11.0 grains of the new 2400 and it seems to be a bit strenous in the "K" frame 38's. No way would I want to use it in the "J" frame S&W or "D" frame Colt. I use these loads in both 38 and 357 revolvers so stick to the 10.0 grain load. Your GP 100 should suck up the eleven grain load withut a hiccup. My alloy is acww and I have never had any leading in revolver or rifle with this load. I am hoping to take a deer with my Rossi, Model 92 , short rifle with this load this fall. I am too damn ancient and creaky to go hunt them with a revolver any more. Elmer Keith provided me with this load in the mid sixties and I finally got to meet him at the NRA show in Portland, Oregon in the early seventies. He certainly didn't believe in wimpy loads. I tempered most of the loads that he gave me as he had been known to blow up more than a few revolvers. These loads are actually mild for your GP-100. It should last longer than you! Shoot and enjoy! By the way. Where are you located in Tennessee? The Navy sent me to Aviation school at Millington in 1957. Neil

TCLouis
08-10-2008, 01:41 AM
Right now I am wringing out loads for the 44 Mag in my Redhawk.
Working with three boolits at the same time so it is taking a while.

I will get to some 38/357 loading next weekend and will try the 10.0 as well as the 11.0 loadings and see how they do. I thought a new 160 grain RNFP mold would be coming in (much delayed) from one of the group buys but I guess I will go back to 358429. The GP100 is new so I guess I should send a couple of hundred coatedbullets thru it before I expect much from real boolits.

Millington NAS is all but closed now. We (TN Army National Guard) flew out of there years ago when it was still active (late 70s) to support some war game in the Mississippi river valley.

I am south of Nashville about 30 Miles.

NoDakJak
08-10-2008, 02:13 PM
TCLouis: I have cast thousands of 358429 slugs with a couple one hole molds. sure sorry that I missed out on the special buy. Right now I am trying to decide whether to buy a Lyman, four hole mold for it or instead buy the six hole Lee, 358-158-F. I have been hearing very good things about the Lee.
The Naval Reserve was flying patrol planes out of Millington when I was there. Consolidated PB4Y-2, Privateers. They were a single tail modification of the B-24, Liberator that was built only for the Navy. Quite a few of them were modified for use as Borate Bombers. I got a closeup look at one at the aero museum at Greybull, Wyoming a couple months ago. Neil

Down South
08-10-2008, 05:07 PM
I'm loading the 358429 for my GP 100 6". I crimp in the crimp groove with no problem for the Ruger. My load is a little hotter. I'm using 13 gr of 2400 and it is producing some good groups. 10 to 11 gr was leaving to much unburnt powder. When I got up to 13 gr things cleaned up nicely. I'm still in load development with this boolit. I'll crank it up to 13.5 gr next week just to see how it does.

Murphy, I'd trim the 357 cases if I were you.

Catshooter
08-11-2008, 07:13 PM
Murhpy,

I loaded up some of the boolits from my Keith .357 group buy in .357 brass. I can crimp in the groove for my Smith 686, but not for the 27. For the Smith 27 I crimped in the front band, just deep enough to give me about .050" clearance from the cylinder face. I use a Lee factory crimp die and it worked well.

As for powder, I can't recall exactly (and my load book is still packed) but my 27 liked 2400 and not the surplus 820 I have.

I didn't trim my cases.


Cat