Resizing cast from .358 to .356 without a press, just the die?

[bbogue1]

I am a newbie. I am still learning and have not bought any equipment yet. I was thinking about the Lee Loader for 38 Special and 9mm. My budget is small for equipment and I don't plan to load more than 500 rounds of each caliber each year. I am intrigued by the smelting and casting process, though I have no plans to jump into that arena quite yet. Thinking about the steps in the process using a Lee loader If I bought cast bullets for the 38 at .358 is it possible to resize to .356? Can that be done by hand using a Lee resizing die without the press?

[6bg6ga]

Just about anything can be done. Having said this one must consider what is reasonable. In reloading one must be willing to do things correctly. Buy or borrow a press and the bullets will come out uniform and sized correctly.

Note.. I use .358 for 38/357 and I use .357 for 9mm. I size and lube them with a Star sizer lubricator.

[ioon44]

A lot of shooters use .358" bullets in there 9 mm's, for me .356" is too small for my 9"s.

[Lakehouse2012]

I say No to sizing without a press. I was resizing last night bullets that dropped at 360 and need to get them to 357 i was STANDING on my press arm in some cases because i didn't hold the mold tight enough when casting.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Bent Ramrod]

Lee used to make a little kit that had a stick of lube, a pan-lubing tray, and a pound through sizer. If they don't make them any more, you might be able to find one of these, of the right diameter, on the auction sites or at a gun show. It ought to size a .358" boolit to .356".

[dsh1106]

Find yourself a 310 Sizing tool, these were made to be used with the tong tool.

The 310 shop will make any size you want.

Scott

[longbow]

Do you have access to a lathe or know someone with a lathe? If so you can easily make a sizing die and punch to drive the boolits through the die using a hammer.

I used to have one of the old Lee sizers Bent Ramrod mentions and believe it or not I made my own hammer sizer for my NOE 316299 for when I use gas checks. I usually shoot plain base boolits unsized but when I use gas checks that that boolit I use a hammer sizer and it works just fine. One day I'll make a die for my press and modernize.

So, short answer... yes you can do it and it will work but if you use a sizing die and make a punch you'll have to be careful not to damage the die with punch or hammer.

A Lee push through sizer and hand press are not terribly expensive though and would be faster and easier.

Longbow

[Char-Gar]

The 310 sizing dies were not intended to size bullet, but to scrap off bullet lube. Trying to size a bullet from .358 to .356 with one of these dies in a tong tool, is gut busting hard. Try it and see, I have.

Some years back Belding and Mull sold a sizing gizmo that held dies of various sizes with a punch that could could drive the bullets through the die with a hammer. The body of this gizmo was fastened to the bench with a couple of screws. A hole was cut in the bench for the sized bullet to fall through into a collecting box.

I see no reason why a Lee sizing die could not be used in a similar fashion, but it would require some head scratching.

[richhodg66]

Have you tried the .358 bullets in your 9mm yet? You might be pleasantly surprised. I haven't loaded 9mm in a long time, but Always used .357 in mine and they worked fine. A .358 might be just as good, I'd sure try first.

That said, I bet one of the Lee sizer dies designed for use in a press could be turned upside down and placed on a 2x4 or similar and using the pusher stem piece, you could gently tap the bullets through it with a hammer. It would be slow, tedious work, but you're already using a Lee loader, so that shouldn't bother you.

I might go out to the barn later and grab one of the push through sizers and see if that works, but I'm guessing it would.

[richhodg66]

Here's a thread that describes the old Lee kits. You see them from time to time for sale at gun shows and such.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?44151-Lube-Cutter-use

[mdi]

I still have an old Lee lube/sizing kit for .44 caliber. I used it quite a bit when I first started casting. But to address your question; do you have a 9mm Lee loader? If so, find a cast lead bullet of .358" and pound it through (starting from the "funnel" side, nose first) then measure it. I have found the Lee Loader die has a section just a couple thousandths larger than "nominal" bullet diameter, to guide a bullet straight for seating and most cast, oversize bullets won't pass through without reducing the OD...

FWIW, if I had to buy a "dedicated" reloading/casting tool every time I needed it, I would have not been able to progress beyond a Lee Loader and powder scoops. Keep thinking...

[OutHuntn84]

Yup you sure can. Get a lee push through sizer and if you can't get your hands on a proper press you can use a dril press as a last ditch or like others have said use a hammer (mallet preferably if wood or hard rubber).
Save yourself some headache though and slug your barrels. There's lots of good info on here on how to do it ��

[flyingtexan86]

You'll need a press to use the Lee bullet sizing kit effectively. In fact, you'll need a press to do any kind of serious reloading. Even a $60 single stage press will fit the bill just fine. I cast .358 bullets and resize to .356 and shoot them from my 9mm's on a regular basis with no issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[runfiverun]

I load 358 in my 9mm's too.
I never bothered slugging any of them I just shot some ammo in them.
it works, I don't have leading, and the coke can at 25yds don't know the difference.

[GONRA]

GONRA sez - OutHunter84 - Please do not wreck yer poor olde Drill Press like this!!!!

[6bg6ga]

After reading some of the replies here I have to shake my head. To answer the person that posted this thread yes you could beat a bullet thru a die and call it something you could load. Do you really want to? Wouldn't you like something fairly accurate to load and shoot? Anything can be done. Does it make sense to do so? My opinion here.... its not a very bright idea. As I suggested ....buy or borrow a press and use that Lee thing if you must. Beg or borrow some bullets and load them. Buy some at the gun shop. Please don't exercise stupidity when it comes to casting and or loading. If its worth doing isn't it worth doing correctly?

[bbogue1]

Lee used to make a little kit that had a stick of lube, a pan-lubing tray, and a pound through sizer. If they don't make them any more, you might be able to find one of these, of the right diameter, on the auction sites or at a gun show. It ought to size a .358" boolit to .356".
I just looked on Amazon and saw that There is a "Lee Bullet Lubricating & Resizing Kit" for $13.50+shipping Looks simple and it should work. I won't buy it right now though. I am amassing information about reloading and deciding what way to go. Thanks for mentioning a small tool I did not know about.

[bbogue1]

I was just thinking and wondered. (A very dangerous thing to do sometimes) Thank you for your educated answers. Apparently this is one of those things that could be done, but, why not save my money for a while and buy the right equipment to do the job right, is a better admonition. After all at some point if I wanted to move away from the Loaders I would definitely want to include a resizing die in my collection.

Another thought brought up is that I have not slugged my guns yet to assure I even need to resize the bullets.

Yet another observation I have is to buy a small single stage press then use it for resizing both now and later. (Through Amazon the price for both including shipping is $57 for the press and the die) and I'd be doing this correctly as well as taking my first step toward using dies rather than the loader.

Interestingly enough the Lyman 310 handloader (Large Handles) is $57.99 on Amazon. I think I prefer the Lee method better.

You forum members provide such a valuable resource, THANK YOU.

[mdi]

Well, I reloaded for about a year and did not have a press. I cast, lubed and sized without a press. I assembled some pretty accurate, safe, consistent ammo with a Lee Loader and one of Lee's "old style" lube/size kits. The operator is the single most important factor in making good, safe, shootable ammo. A sloppy, inconsistent reloader won't make good ammo on the most expensive equipment, but a conscientious, thoughtful craftsman can assemble good, accurate, safe ammo on a basic Lee Loader.

I have 4 presses and 12 die sets, and mebbe 1.65 metric tons of assorted reloading tools but on occasion, when I feel "retro" or just 'cause, I'll pull out one of my Lee Loaders and "pound out" a few rounds. I could hand reloads done with my Lee Loaders and those done on my $200.00 press with $50.00 dies to nearly anyone and let them tell me which were the high dollar reloads and which were the "el cheapo" ammo. I'll bet a breakfast at Maddie's that no one would be able to consistently tell me which were which.

Telling new reloaders they can't reload safely/correctly with inexpensive, simple equipment is a disservice to them and saddling them with unneeded equipment or expectations.

Of course this is only my opinion from my personal experience, and those less mechanically inclined will disagree, but, oh well...

[richhodg66]

"Telling new reloaders they can't reload safely/correctly with inexpensive, simple equipment is a disservice to them and saddling them with unneeded equipment or expectations. "

Yep, agree 100%. Lots and lots of guys on here who got started with them and other inexpensive, simple set ups. Guess these guys knocking them had it handed to them rather than having to learn it.

[6bg6ga]

Well, I reloaded for about a year and did not have a press. I cast, lubed and sized without a press. I assembled some pretty accurate, safe, consistent ammo with a Lee Loader and one of Lee's "old style" lube/size kits. The operator is the single most important factor in making good, safe, shootable ammo. A sloppy, inconsistent reloader won't make good ammo on the most expensive equipment, but a conscientious, thoughtful craftsman can assemble good, accurate, safe ammo on a basic Lee Loader.

I have 4 presses and 12 die sets, and mebbe 1.65 metric tons of assorted reloading tools but on occasion, when I feel "retro" or just 'cause, I'll pull out one of my Lee Loaders and "pound out" a few rounds. I could hand reloads done with my Lee Loaders and those done on my $200.00 press with $50.00 dies to nearly anyone and let them tell me which were the high dollar reloads and which were the "el cheapo" ammo. I'll bet a breakfast at Maddie's that no one would be able to consistently tell me which were which.

Telling new reloaders they can't reload safely/correctly with inexpensive, simple equipment is a disservice to them and saddling them with unneeded equipment or expectations.

Of course this is only my opinion from my personal experience, and those less mechanically inclined will disagree, but, oh well...

Like I said....anything is possible. Why in God's name would you want to unless you were after small quantities or have a lot of time to waste or simply want to say "Look what I did"

Doing a disservice to them? Don't think so. A lot of them aren't either qualified or capable of doing it so why get their hopes up? Why not simply point them in a direction that would be usable for them?

[Soundguy]

press / are / can be very cheap.... reloading isn't something to half-@***.

be safe.


I am a newbie. I am still learning and have not bought any equipment yet. I was thinking about the Lee Loader for 38 Special and 9mm. My budget is small for equipment and I don't plan to load more than 500 rounds of each caliber each year. I am intrigued by the smelting and casting process, though I have no plans to jump into that arena quite yet. Thinking about the steps in the process using a Lee loader If I bought cast bullets for the 38 at .358 is it possible to resize to .356? Can that be done by hand using a Lee resizing die without the press?

[DanishM1Garand]

http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/423081/lee-challenger-breech-lock-single-stage-press-anniversary-kit?cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Reloading+-+Metallic+Reloading+Presses-_-Lee-_-423081&gclid=CLOXpeSmx9ECFZ26wAodeQcIoQ


120 bucks for a kit. Cheap enough.

I started with a used RCBS kit much like this.

You don't reload to save money. You tell yourself this as a way to justify it. I can make shotgun slug loads for less than factory loads. 9mm I can buy new for 9.99 a box of 50. If my time is worth anything this is cheaper. I reload for a hobby. I doubt I save any money on anything but the slug and buckshot loads.

[Yodogsandman]

I don't see why a Lee sizing kit wouldn't work with a hammer. Place the die over the boolit on a flat, hard surface, hit the sizer die down over it with the hammer. Repeat with a deep socket held over the top so the bullet could freely push out. Remove the bullet. Repeat over and over.

EDIT: Went out and tried it. That sucks! Need too much force and boolits deformed. I used a rubber mallet without the socket.

[OutHuntn84]

GONRA sez - OutHunter84 - Please do not wreck yer poor olde Drill Press like this!!!!

Hahaha I wont but it can be done and I'd doubt you would damage a drill press doing it. Saw a documentary once of a fella in a 3rd world country seating 45 acp with a drill press. Like they say necessity is the mother of all invention.

bbogue1: You might post a thread looking for an experienced reloader near you that will mentor you a little bit. That way you can get a feel for some of the different tools and styles and figure out what is going to work best for you. This is a great hobby and its always great to be able to sit back and say look what I did :)

[mdi]

Hmmm. $120.00 for a kit, $30.00 for primers, $25.00 for a pound of powder, mebbe $20.00 for some cheap bullets would put a huge dent is some budgets (it would have bankrupted me when I started reloading).

[gwpercle]

But think about all the money we are saving !

[Soundguy]

Hmmm. $120.00 for a kit, $30.00 for primers, $25.00 for a pound of powder, mebbe $20.00 for some cheap bullets would put a huge dent is some budgets (it would have bankrupted me when I started reloading).

Dont buy a 130$ kit.

The economy lee press are what? 30$. Probably still come with a priming bar, if not 5$, safety scale is as chew as you get, or dipper included with lee die for specific powder.. Etc.

You dont have to buy every bit of chrome and tool available to start loading on the cheap.

For straighteall cartridges, 120$ will get you a set of dies with shell holder, press, primer arm, safety scale, 1# powder, and a tray of 100 primers, and a small bag of cast lead sized and lived projectiles.

Everything you need to do pistol.

( no trimmer needed, no case prep tools, no powder thrower, no loading block, just the basics. The lee die set will have beginner reload and die setup instructions, powder maker will have online data, die set usually has limited charge data too. Many makers offer FREE powder load data phamplets at their retail outlets or via mail.

I've bought small blister packs of cast projectiles st shows many times, to try out a profile and feed, in a gun before buying a mold.

Add your leftover brass and you are set.

If you are doing bottleneck, add about 50$ for a economy 20% off, harbor freight caliper, lee ID/OD chamfer tool, and the cheapy on press trimmer and the trim die from lee, for that one cartridge.

[BrassMagnet]

Check out this thread on Survival Reloading from the End Times Report.

http://www.endtimesreport.com/survival_reloading.html

It covers Lee Loaders, Lyman 310 Hand tools, and portable hand presses. It even covers a little history about even harder ways to do it!

[6bg6ga]

Hmmm. $120.00 for a kit, $30.00 for primers, $25.00 for a pound of powder, mebbe $20.00 for some cheap bullets would put a huge dent is some budgets (it would have bankrupted me when I started reloading).

Back when I started you could get primers by the 100. It didn't cost $25.00 for a lb of powder. I picked up my first RCBS press for $15 used. I bought components one at a time when I could afford them.

Reality check here.... I can still pick up a USED press for .25 on the dollar or less. I can still find someone to sell me 100 primers or 1/4 lb of powder if I want to say try a different powder. I can find all my pistol brass at the range for free. I can still purchase a USED set of dies. A USED scale.

For the price of a hand operated loading tool I can have used reloading equipment which will let me make quantities of ammunition on the cheap.

Logic would dictate that you purchase the best for the least amount of money. This still can be done if one doesn't get in hurry. If I'm in the market to spend say $30 on a hand operated tool I can spend a little time and find a USED press for the same amount of money.

[Soundguy]

Back when I started you could get primers by the 100. It didn't cost $25.00 for a lb of powder. I picked up my first RCBS press for $15 used. I bought components one at a time when I could afford them.

Reality check here.... I can still pick up a USED press for .25 on the dollar or less. I can still find someone to sell me 100 primers or 1/4 lb of powder if I want to say try a different powder. I can find all my pistol brass at the range for free. I can still purchase a USED set of dies. A USED scale.

For the price of a hand operated loading tool I can have used reloading equipment which will let me make quantities of ammunition on the cheap.

Logic would dictate that you purchase the best for the least amount of money. This still can be done if one doesn't get in hurry. If I'm in the market to spend say $30 on a hand operated tool I can spend a little time and find a USED press for the same amount of money.


Agreed. only 3 of the 7 press I have were bought new.. the rest used. And yes.. for pennies on the dollar.

Used press, used die sets, etc. you can be reloading straight wall pistol cheap.

Many times you find people selling an entire setup at an estate sale or yard sale..

[PerpetualStudent]

Lord knows I'm taking the slow path to reloading I've done some casting but no reloading yet just to preface my post.

I'm a similar "My budget is tight" situation. I've been slowly amassing my equipment. And that's the main thing I'd say. When we don't have money, we have to be slow and sure. The good news is assembling your own equipment rather than a kit generally gets you a cheaper better quality setup. An RCBS scale for 50 bucks instead of 100 bucks one christmas (on sale). The Lee Loadall as a gift another christmas. A secondhand lead pot for 50. Yard sale hot plate and rusty cast iron skillet for 5 bucks. You can spread out your budget and get more value if you can be that patient. The best solution for you might be buy projectiles and learn reloading with your hand set, and save some of your shooting budget to get a secondhand press.

When I was researching sizing I saw threads on here with guys using the lee hand press to resize. That's about as cheap as I'd go on that piece of the process. You want slow controlled force to change the lead's size without deforming it. A lever is really going to be useful there instead of whacking it.

You can gamble that you can load without sizing, and some people get away with that. Revolvers should be more forgiving than a semi-auto.

[Soundguy]

Yup, see what size your mold drops, and see if it needs to be sized. Many do, some don't. Depends on the application.

[mdi]

Dont buy a 130$ kit.

The economy lee press are what? 30$. Probably still come with a priming bar, if not 5$, safety scale is as chew as you get, or dipper included with lee die for specific powder.. Etc.

You dont have to buy every bit of chrome and tool available to start loading on the cheap.

For straighteall cartridges, 120$ will get you a set of dies with shell holder, press, primer arm, safety scale, 1# powder, and a tray of 100 primers, and a small bag of cast lead sized and lived projectiles.

Everything you need to do pistol.

( no trimmer needed, no case prep tools, no powder thrower, no loading block, just the basics. The lee die set will have beginner reload and die setup instructions, powder maker will have online data, die set usually has limited charge data too. Many makers offer FREE powder load data phamplets at their retail outlets or via mail.

I've bought small blister packs of cast projectiles st shows many times, to try out a profile and feed, in a gun before buying a mold.

Add your leftover brass and you are set.

If you are doing bottleneck, add about 50$ for a economy 20% off, harbor freight caliper, lee ID/OD chamfer tool, and the cheapy on press trimmer and the trim die from lee, for that one cartridge. This is what I was saying, but many posts are advocating buying a full kit with dies and assorted tools and tossing the Lee Loader. Good if one has the free funds to start a new hobby. Nothing wrong with a Lee Loader. Nothing wrong with a Hand Press. Nothing wrong with a bench press. But one needs to consider that not all new reloaders can just dump $200 to start reloading...

[reddog81]

The thought of loading 500 rounds of 9mm with a Lee Loader makes me cringe. You can buy 500 rounds of 9mm for $100. You'd spend over 10 hours, casting, lubing, sizing bullets, sizing brass one at a time with a hammer, seating primers one at a time with a hammer, dropping powder, than seating bullets one at a time with a hammer all to save $50. I can't think of an easier way to scare someone away from casting/reloading. On top of all that 9mm is the most finicky high pressure yet small cartridge when it comes to OAL and needing the correct powder charge to operate the action of the gun.

I'd try and find someone local who can help you learn the ropes. Maybe you can cast up some bullets for them to use and they can let you use their press.

[Soundguy]

Lee loader? No, lee zamac 'c' press? Sure

[2wheelDuke]

I don't know what your budget is like, but you can pick up a Lee hand press for around $40, maybe a bit over depending on shipping.

http://www.titanreloading.com/lee-breech-lock-hand-press-only?search=hand%20press

I'm sure there's older ones that can be had for even cheaper. I have one that was a gift. There's definitely deals around on used gear if you're patient.

Keep your eyes open, and like the Johnny Cash tune, get it one piece at a time.

[Bent Ramrod]

Reloading cartridges does not require a lot of equipment. Bench rest shooters use the same type of tap-in-and-out sizing dies that Lee makes. Their seating dies can be used by hand pressure, or with a mallet, although a light arbor press is sold to those who wish to use them. In any case, cartridges and boolits are not so delicate that a little tapping will ruin them.

The only advantages presses have is increased production and easy full-length sizing. IIRC, the OP said he was probably only going to shoot 500 rounds a year each for two guns, and was in a budget. When I was a starving student, loading 50 rounds a week with a Lee loader was no trouble, and would give me 2500 rounds a year. The little hand tools, a Lee 10-lb pot (I splurged and got the temperature adjustment) and a single cavity mould were enough for several years, until I started accumulating more guns and shooting more.

I was kind of dismayed when I started loading my Hornet with a used Pacific Super press and used Lachmiller dies and found that the accuracy was not up to what I was used to with the Lee Loader. Took about three months of practice before that problem vanished, and to this day I don't know how it did.

I don't see a lot of used reloading equipment going for cheap any more. Used to be you could give a Gun Show table holder the choice between taking home an easily carried $20 bill or the burdensome 40 lb cast iron press he was trying to sell, but anything going for a low price anymore is often a restoration project before it can be used. The ammunition shortage has a lot of people buying reloading stuff, whether they use it or not, which of course drives the price up.

Of course, if one has time to hunt for bargains, this is not an issue. If one wants to start reloading soon, it is.

[Soundguy]

I don't know what your budget is like, but you can pick up a Lee hand press for around $40, maybe a bit over depending on shipping.

http://www.titanreloading.com/lee-breech-lock-hand-press-only?search=hand%20press

I'm sure there's older ones that can be had for even cheaper. I have one that was a gift. There's definitely deals around on used gear if you're patient.

Keep your eyes open, and like the Johnny Cash tune, get it one piece at a time.

35$ new if you don't want the breech plug style. hand or 'C' press.

[mdi]

Why are so many people against simple, easy does it reloading? I understand today's way of thinking tends to be more!, faster!, more!, more!, more! but there are still many who enjoy the process rather than just the round count. I started reloading out of curiosity, money and time had nothing to do with it; "Can I reuse these things (empty cases)?" I taught myself the process from books on the subject and 30 years later am still not in any hurry. Need 500 rounds? Cool, I can quite easily do 100 at one setting, mebbe 50 on another session, and even 200 at one time until I get 500 rounds. (My 45 ACP has about 1,000 reloads in an ammo can and nope I didn't have to do them all at once!). Waste of time and effort? To who? I enjoy the process of assembling precise objects that will be used later. Great satisfaction for a job well done (good results on the target)...

[Char-Gar]

After reading some of the replies here I have to shake my head. To answer the person that posted this thread yes you could beat a bullet thru a die and call it something you could load. Do you really want to? Wouldn't you like something fairly accurate to load and shoot? Anything can be done. Does it make sense to do so? My opinion here.... its not a very bright idea. As I suggested ....buy or borrow a press and use that Lee thing if you must. Beg or borrow some bullets and load them. Buy some at the gun shop. Please don't exercise stupidity when it comes to casting and or loading. If its worth doing isn't it worth doing correctly?

You sound like a fellow who had a father with a complete loading set up, were born well to do, or didn't start reloading until you had discretionary cash.

Some of us starting reloading when a dollar was as big as a wagon wheel,and we had to make do with what we had. That is not stupidity, it is just called getting it done with what you have.

[Soundguy]

Imho, I dont think the sizing will work a good, 'pounding' it thru, vs a steady pressure. Even a squeeze in an arbor press or vice would be better.

As has been said, new economy press 35 $, used economy press 5-20$

My first lee c press was 5$ used. Still in use.

[44magLeo]

I might suggest shopping Ebay. First thing to get is a loading manual. I think Lyman's books are a good start. They cover both jacketed and cast boolits.
It also has a very detailed explanation of the process.
Search used reloading presses. Then sort from lowest price + s/h first.
You can further refine by brand, by bid or buy it now.
There are old cast C press by manufactures that have gone out of business. These old press are very good tools. Just be sure they use modern style universal shell holders. Some of the older presses used shell holders built right into the ram. To change shell holders you changed rams.
Use a similar search for used dies, shell holders.
Lee makes a set of graduated dippers. Around $12 new. Comes with a slide rule to tell grains of powder for each dipper with a lot of different powders. Don't try to load max loads with these. Stay a bit low and you will be fine.
There are many ways to prime cases Lee make a very good hand tool that uses inexpensive shell holders. Comes with both large and small trays.
These will get you started. After you get a feel for it you can aquire more tools that can speed up the process.
Reloading can be a very enjoyable hobby in it's own right. Being able to tailor fit the loads to your gun for accuracy or a specific use.
Getting started with the Lee Loader is a good way to start. Stick with store bought bullets for now. You can buy cast bullet in many designs that work well in your guns.
Some even works in both guns.
Revolvers can shoot most any design, auto loaders can be choosy about shape.
Good luck and enjoy your new hobby.
Leo

[35remington]

The current Lee sizing kit in effect IS the old sizing kit with threads on the die and a flange on the punch to fit the press ram. It is still a die and punch when off the press.

The lubed bullet can easily be pounded thru the die with a plastic hammer. It sizes just fine with no harm to the bullet. Lee themselves recommend it.

I am shaking my head that something so obvious and effective has been advised against by the utterly unknowing.

Experience much? Apparently not.

A bit of advice.....never take the word of someone who has never tried something related to what you are asking. These guys have not or they wouldn't be saying it.

[6bg6ga]

You sound like a fellow who had a father with a complete loading set up, were born well to do, or didn't start reloading until you had discretionary cash.

Some of us starting reloading when a dollar was as big as a wagon wheel,and we had to make do with what we had. That is not stupidity, it is just called getting it done with what you have.



Actually my father started out with a primitive 310 I believe. I remember him trying to FL resize 30-06 with the hand tool. It didn't take long for him to sell it and purchase a single stage Pacific press which he kept until he died in 2013 at 84 years of age. I was born into poverty. When I started loading in the 70's I started with a RCBS single stage press.

One thing I did learn from watching my dad was to buy what I wanted the first go around instead of buying the low end item followed by the medium followed by the one I originally wanted in the first place. From 20 years of working in a factory first as a machine operator then a machinist and finally a quality control inspector is to buy something that will deliver the best performance possible and not waste my time in the process.

So, I would say I started close to the bottom with respect to reloading equipment. I did skip the 310 hand reloading ***. I started working in a factory for less than $2.00 AN HOUR so I believe I also was working when the dollar was as big as a wagon wheel.

With respect to sizing without a press....like I mentioned yes, it can be done. Why would you want to? I don't personally have that much time that I wish to waste it. I went from a single bullet mold and a pot and ladle to a Ballisti-cast Mark IV and someday hope to have a Magma production machine of some sort. A single stage reloading press to a Dillon 650 and hope to have a 1050 soon.

To me its all about time. Multiple sizing lubing machines so no setup is needed as they all are ready to go. Multiple tool heads and powder measures for the Dillon. Probably a second Dillon one for small primer and one for large primer before I buy the 1050.

[JimB..]

If I was forced to size without a press I would make a simple one from wood with a couple bolts. flat base, short riser so the pressure is almost all downward, and an arm hinged at the back, drill a hole for the die, let it float a little, piece of brass as a punch. Not as rigid as you'll want, but I bet it'd work.

Would be less expensive to find a mold/alloy combo that you don't have to resize.

[DougGuy]

All this talk about alternative methods of sizing is one thing, but the important thing is that we want ammo that is reliable, safely assembled, ACCURATE, and doesn't lead the daylights out of the barrel.

To this end, we say Fitment is KING. It will do nary a bit of good to size to .356" if you have a .357" barrel, you are simply asking for lousy groups and probably a leaded barrel.

In a *perfect* world, a revolver's dimensions need to read similar to a common kitchen funnel. Larger dimensions in the back, tapering smaller and smaller as you go toward the muzzle, so that every step of the way, the boolit is squeezed or swaged into a smaller and smaller area, so that it forms a good seal against the escape of gas pressure all the way from the case mouth to the muzzle. Starting with a boolit smaller than the barrel's groove diameter is not a good decision.

The same applies for an autopistol as well. The boolit needs to be .001" to .002" GREATER than groove diameter, and the barrel throat for an autoloader, or the cylinder throats for a revolver, need to be .0005" to .001" GREATER than the boolit diameter.

This is how cast boolits work best. They need to be sealed as best as possible all the way through the firing process, and the best way to achieve this is to force the boolit through a smooth and steadily decreasing in size path through the firearm's barrel and or cylinder.

After having said this, you might want to rethink your choice to size to .356" as most want to size to .358" and if that .358" boolit won't fit through the cylinder throats or plunk into an autoloader's barrel, then the proper fix is to ream the cylinder throats or throat the barrel so that it will freely accept a .358" boolit. You will have MUCH better results all the way around if you start off on the right track.. I do hundreds of barrels and cylinders for shooters every year, and there are many on this forum who can attest to the improvements gained after properly sizing cylinder and/or barrel throats for .358" boolits.

[JimB..]

Yes to everything DougGuy said. Obviously the last thing you want to do is invest in, or Jerry-rig, a solution that doesn't solve your problem or for which you don't have a problem. I just liked the challenge of designing a nearly free press having made the assumption that you do need to resize.

[35remington]

The OP asked about sizing without using a press because he did not have a press, so that covers why he would "want to." It is in fact just about as fast to do it off the press as if it was press mounted.

All the replies about sizing using a hammer to run the bullet through the die being substandard in results have been utter nonsense and completely false. The advice is contrary to actual results.

Nothing is more worthless than advice from those that have never done what was asked about.

Instead.....the OP gets advice it isn't worth doing unless he shells out a bunch of cash to do it first class. Never mind he can't produce ammo very fast with his loading setup and has no need to spend a lot of money. And never mind his proposal will not cause any additional cash outlay over alternatives down the road.

Amazing. This is more a disservice than "advice."

[Soundguy]

I can guarantee you that extended hammering on the plunger base that normally fits the press ram like a shell holder will mar it.

And that's not a guess.

[35remington]

Take it from a guy that has done it. if a plastic hammer is used the part that fits in the press is not harmed at all. Keep the steel hammers away. Use your brain.

Sheesh.

[Soundguy]

Hammer was mentioned, some newbie reading this will drag out grandads' framing hammer..

I am using my brain, I'm forseeing a problem with a pist that needed further clarifying.

Why so rude with your comments? Bad day ..again?

Takes a gentleman to be civil...

[35remington]

What is making me admittedly bit uncivil is I don't usually see such utterly horrible advice here. Usually you can chalk up varying advice to difference of opinion but not here....no experience at all is being used as a substitute for a valid experience based opinion. I can see this "no experience" is so from the notable lack of accuracy in the responses.

Using a plastic hammer is flat common sense and it was mentioned earlier to boot. Who hammers steel with steel and expects no harm? If harm occurs get another punch and don't do it again.

Sorry. Yes I am cranky. This thread earned it with more apologies for my crankiness.

Rarely do I see a sensible question, with such a great idea advanced by the OP so flatly and wrongly slapped down by the unknowing. Let the guys with experience using such tools answer next time. His entirely sensible reasoning for asking the question was completely dismissed as not knowing what it was all about. Suppositions rather than facts were advanced about how well such off press usage actually works.

His proposed use of a sizing die off press is entirely consistent with his current equipment and is in fact faster in production than he needs.

This is something that needed to be acknowledged from the get go. Yet postulation from those who do not and have not done it abounded anyway.

[Soundguy]

Post 7 is the first post mentioning hammer, and it doesn't specify size, type or material.

Post 12 mentions hammer/mallet, and then says " Preferably" wood or hard rubber. ( preference but not exclusion to non mentioned materials. )

This is why I pushed for clarification on terms. In 5 years Joe newbie will read this archived thread, read down to #7, and smile, and run off with his gem of knowledge, and pound his punch the with a framing hammer with non skid face, and after the first hit, will leave dimpled pricks all over the punch base.

Seen similar issues with vauge explanations..

[35remington]

And if he's paying attention, he won't hit it a second time. Since we have mentioned softer materials for the hammer you can dismiss that concern since it's been mentioned multiple times now.

My point about the utter twaddle printed as information here still stands. A whole load of people who have no knowledge or usage of the Lee sizing kit in the manner asked about have postulated on the subject and got it terribly wrong.

This was a disservice. Is it too much to ask that one actually does something and has a valid opinion before saying it will or won't work well?

[Soundguy]

I dont read minds, nor do I try. Speculation on what a particular group of people know or don't know, or what they have or havnt done is tricky territory.

Someone with experience on a topic, ( bad experience? ) yet poor communication skills, may come off as ignorant on a subject.

That's why clear, concise posts are best. Dont leave anything to the imagination. In other words.. Lil warranties. Express, dont imply. ;)

[35remington]

We should try not to pass off opinionated guesses based on not using a tool as described as actual useful information.

This is a basic requirement for helping someone with their choice.

I can tell you from the responses here a number of people don't know much yet aren't afraid to give advice anyway

[6bg6ga]

I'm kind of wondering here if a guy doesn't have money for a press how are they going to come up with a die to push the bullet thru to size it? Got it.... drill a hole in the top of dad's metal bench top take his borrowed plastic mallet and drive the bullet thru the hole.

[Soundguy]

I'm guessing that if you can't afford a 15$ used press and a 25$ die.. How are you buying other shooting supplies?

If an arbor press was already owned, that would open up some possibilities. Heck.. Vice.. Or torch, drill n welding.. Dont have to look pretty.

[michael.birdsley]

Lee loader? No, lee zamac 'c' press? Sure

This is what I started with The lee C press. Had the local gun shop order it for me for $28.99 saved shipping too. Still the only press I have. It is not glamorous by any stretch of the imagination but, does everything I need it to including sizing boolits. For the OP check out the lee reloading and cast Facebook page. Sometimes people sell things cheap on there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[6bg6ga]

A lot of us try hard to point people in the right direction including not recommending practices that will not provide consistent results, possibly cause injuries, and in short are possibly plain stupid. I'm being blunt here. I've been accused of growing up with money which is totally false. I've been reloading since the 70's and I believe I have learned how to reload properly and safely and I learned with cheap used equipment.

I've had a lot of questions from people over the years and not from this forum. Most questions deal with the cost of reloading and the possible cost savings. I've told people when you consider the cost involved in reloading its simpler to simply buy the ammunition. Take a box of 9mm for instance. A box of cheap 9mm is about $9.00 give or take. What can you reload a box for? It varies.... type of bullet, factory type bullet or cast. Is it worth it ..probably not.

Sure, you can do some things on the cheap. Does it however make sense to spend a great amount of time to process a round of ammunition when you have to do everything with technology that is behind the times? Like I mentioned if you have a bullet sizing die it doesn't make sense to try to pound a bullet thru with a hammer(plastic) when you can simply purchase a used reloading press or something along this line.

At some point logic has to come into play here. You wouldn't change your own car tires with a pry bar would you? The correct proper tools are needed to insure that whatever operation is being done is done correctly and safely.

My personal thought here.... If you cannot afford the equipment then get out of the game.

[35remington]

The fact remains that he proposed using the sizing die alone off any press to size the bullet. This is entirely safe, gives excellent results, and is entirely consistent with how it was intended to be used and such use is recommended by its manufacturer.

This IS the correct tool being used correctly. It is NOT stupid.....it is a very good idea.

And someone who is completely unaware of all this recommended against it.

The correct answer to his question is the overriding concern. Suggesting that doing sizing off the press is inconsistent, undesirable and will produce subpar results is as incorrect as any statement can possibly be. Given his current setup it was an extremely smart idea to pursue.

It still is.

Doubling down on bad advice does not turn it into good advice, nor does making false claims about actual results (from someone who has never done it) change the results obtained.

[Soundguy]

This is what I started with The lee C press. Had the local gun shop order it for me for $28.99 saved shipping too. Still the only press I have. It is not glamorous by any stretch of the imagination but, does everything I need it to including sizing boolits. For the OP check out the lee reloading and cast Facebook page. Sometimes people sell things cheap on there.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I still have 2 myself, and a Lee C press was also my first. Mine was a new, open box at a pawn shop. 20$

I still use those 2 , one with a universal deprime die in it, and the other I usually stick lee sizers in for lead boolits.

My second one was bought used at a show for 15$. both are still in good operating shape.

[Bent Ramrod]

Actually, there is a very big advantage in starting out with tools that produce ammo at a painfully slow rate. They force the fledgling reloader to concentrate on each step of the process, including the muscle memory part.

There is nothing so innocuous yet instructive as popping a primer or crunching a case mouth on a Lee Loader or cocking a boolit in the Lee Sizer. You're startled, or out a case or boolit, (not to mention a certain amount of "precious time") but you've learned that gentle and precise, rather than ham-handed, is the way to go when producing ammunition. Eventually, those lessons go from intellectual information to instinctive operation.

I've seen people mangle the first four cases in ten, resizing for the first time on a single stage press. They associate that big lever with the one used to switch points on railroad tracks and mash stuff up before they know it.

And the Cowboy Action Shooting site used to be replete with advice to the newbie who had just discovered that ammo in the quantities he needed to shoot was expensive: "Git you a Progressive Press, Pilgrim!" The threads on "Hey, m'gun blew up last Sattiday at th'big Shoot; wot happind?" followed quickly.

A lot of technical discussion on alleged SEE phenomenon caused by 3.8 gr of Bullseye, overrotation of cylinders in rapid fire, etc., etc., ensued. Anything to avoid the possibility that the newbie reloader was mindlessly pulling the lever on that progressive press, hypnotized by the stream of finished rounds dropping out the end, and daydreaming about the purdy Senorita he was going to impress next Sattiday. And "something happened;" too bad he wasn't paying attention to whatever it was so it could be analyzed and avoided the next time.

Knock on wood, I have never had a stack of primers go off, or a gun come apart, and the only poof of gas from a bad shell I've had was a factory load. For that, I give full credit to the "slow, tedious, timewasting" reloading techniques I developed with the simple hand tools and adapted later to the faster presses.

[35remington]

Well said, and a good point. Understanding the process helps one to do good work.

[BrassMagnet]

Regardless of how fast a machine works, it is critical to focus on what is happening now and developing a process which catches all errors before they become a problem.

[Lloyd Smale]

I too think your going to small. 357 or 358 depend on if your gun will run 358s. If you insist what I would try is to clamp a sizing die in your vise. Spray some hornady one shot lightly on your bullets and find a brass rod just a smidge smaller then your die and tap the bullets through. Lee alox might work well for it too if you don't have any one shot. Tumble lube them size them and tumble lube them again.

[MT Chambers]

Don't be pounding on things you're gonna shoot, don't buy some flimsy equip. that only sizes, save some cash and buy a used Lyman or RCBS lubricator sizer.

[Soundguy]

Don't be pounding on things you're gonna shoot, don't buy some flimsy equip. that only sizes, save some cash and buy a used Lyman or RCBS lubricator sizer.

If you are insinuating that a lee push thru size die is flimsy, you obviously have never held or used one...

[MT Chambers]

If you are insinuating that a lee push thru size die is flimsy, you obviously have never held or used one...I never said the die was flimsy, maybe the press or plastic container but the idea was to get equip. that lubes as well as sizes, although I realize that you are the only one that has ever seen or used a Lee die.

[Soundguy]

I never said the die was flimsy, maybe the press or plastic container but the idea was to get equip. that lubes as well as sizes, although I realize that you are the only one that has ever seen or used a Lee die.

Look..its EXACTLY what you said.


don't buy some flimsy equip. that only sizes


Flimsy equipment that only sizes. Dont try to backpeddle and change what you said.

The equipment that only sizes is the lee push thru die ( as compared to a lubri-sizer setup that sizes and lubes).

And the push thru sizer simply is not flimsy.

You said it, man up and own it.

[BrassMagnet]

Let's quit the arguing and finger pointing.

[KCSO]

Gee looks lie I stumbled into the snake pit???? I have sizer lubers and push through and once in a while I have a few bullets I need to size and I don't feel like re setting a luber. I may not have a push through in the right soze so I turned an adaptor that lets me use lyman dies as push through on top of the loading press. Not perfect but adequate for a few bullets or expiriments.

[Soundguy]

Let's quit the arguing and finger pointing.

The people commenting on things they don't know about are the problem. Not calling them on it is a dis-service to others.

[toallmy]

How about we really help the fellow out , sorta like this . You might want to try just one at a time to keep it simple . The 38 special is the simplest of the two ( if you want to know why I will go into detail this is my opinion not a fact )so if you get a lee loader , some primers , and powder ( this is a good question to discuss also a lot of different powders on the market ) I will send you a few cast boolits sized and lubed to try out . But consider your safety first then - things to consider , powder scale , single stage press and loading information . Have fun and be safe .

[mdi]

The fact remains that he proposed using the sizing die alone off any press to size the bullet. This is entirely safe, gives excellent results, and is entirely consistent with how it was intended to be used and such use is recommended by its manufacturer.

This IS the correct tool being used correctly. It is NOT stupid.....it is a very good idea.

And someone who is completely unaware of all this recommended against it.

The correct answer to his question is the overriding concern. Suggesting that doing sizing off the press is inconsistent, undesirable and will produce subpar results is as incorrect as any statement can possibly be. Given his current setup it was an extremely smart idea to pursue.

It still is.

Doubling down on bad advice does not turn it into good advice, nor does making false claims about actual results (from someone who has never done it) change the results obtained.
Thank you for this excellent post. I participated in this thread when it first started, but dropped out when the $$$ vs. common sense arguments started. I got curious and went to page 4 and read a bit. SOS...

My first sizing kit was an old Lee kit consisting of a 4" pan, a die, a punch and a stick of red lube. As a lifelong machinist/mechanic I was curious as to the accuracy/consistency of this tool so I measured the diameter of maybe 50 in a row. Less than .001" variation in diameter and prolly more like .0005". I don't think there is a more simple way to size bullets (or as some say more crude) and I can't complain about .0005" accuracy...:mrgreen:

[Soundguy]

Agreed, simple, repeatable, economical, and works. Not flimsy.

[PerpetualStudent]

Hmm.

Re-reading this thread I realize I missed his first question "If I bought cast bullets for the 38 at .358 is it possible to resize to .356?" While he also notes that he's not casting himself. So if you're buying commercially cast bullets, the question is would it really be economical? Is the savings of buying 1000 rounds of light .358 bullets compared to buying a batch of 500 bullets for your 9mm and 500 for your 38 special going to break even with the cost of the sizer?

If you're buying commercially, I think you'd be several years into reloading at the rate you're speaking of before you'd break even there. If you were talking about buying one mold to feed both that might be worth it but if your buying your bullets, just buy for each gun.

And I say this after just coming to the conclusion that I might just do what you suggest and size without a press and just the lee push through sizer with the cookie cutter method.