Unique and 4064 in 45/70????

[Jeffery8mm]

I will be loading a NEF 45/70 with the Lyman 330gr Hollow Point. Can unique be used successfully in the 45/70 case for a light hunting/plinking load?? I know 3031 is a good powder, how about IMR4064? I see it with jacketed suff, but not cast.
Any and all input is welcome!!
Jeff

[Johnw...ski]

Hi Jeff,

While I have not tried IMR 4064 in the 45-70, I have tried W 748 which is really close on the burn rate chart. The 748 didn't get me very excited accuracy wise but then again my goal with a rifle is MOA or better. Many loads I have tried would certainly be suitable as hunting loads but my trophy is the group on a piece of paper. I have had very good success with H 4895 and Benchmark with IMR 3031 close behind. I have never been a fan of the fast powders, then again for plinking they sure would be econimical.

Load 10 or 20 rounds with 4064 and see what kind of groups you get. I would say between 40 and 45 gr. would be a good starting point with that 330 gr. slug. And don't forget to let us know.

Good Luck,

John


I will be loading a NEF 45/70 with the Lyman 330gr Hollow Point. Can unique be used successfully in the 45/70 case for a light hunting/plinking load?? I know 3031 is a good powder, how about IMR4064? I see it with jacketed suff, but not cast.
Any and all input is welcome!!
Jeff

[wiljen]

15-19gr of unique behind the 330gr using standard primers makes a good plinker load.

[Jeffery8mm]

Thanks guys!! I am syill gathering components and info ofr this round, but will get y'all posted!!

Jeff

[oksmle]

Rifle: Springfield Mod. 1873 Carbine. Remington cases fire formed & not resized. Remington large pistol primers...

#459340GC - 355 grs -11.0 grs Unique - 1069 fps.
#459340PB - 355 grs - 11.0 grs Unique - 1160 fps.
# 459340GC - 355 grs - 12.5 grs Unique - 1180 fps.
#459340PB - 355 grs - 12.5 grs Unique - 1178 fps.
#457124PB - 405 grs - 11.5 grs Unique - 1039 fps.
#457124PB - 405 grs - 12.0 grs Unique - 1069 fps.
#457193PB - 415 grs - 11.5 grs Unique - 1044 fps.
#457193PB - 415 grs - 12.0 grs Unique - 1064 fps.

Boolits cast of straight WW.... oksmle

[NickSS]

Hi OKSMLE

I see that some of your 405 gr loads give about the same velocity as the 55 gr BP load the army first used in the 45-70 case for use in carbines and cadet rifles. I have used the 55 gr load to kill deer with so it should work the same with your Unique loads. How do they shoot in your Springfield???

[Jeffery8mm]

GREAT info oksmle!!
Jeff

[kjg]

my little nef Likes 13 grains unique no filers don't know the speed but if a great load, .kjg

[Jeffery8mm]

kjg, I will be shooting that same load in my NEF. I will post the speed when I shoot it over the pact so you we will know the speed. Thanks for the info
Jeff

[oksmle]

NickSS .... Short story: The load I was attempting to duplicate was the original carbine load with the #457124 at 405 grains. And after I reached that velocity using Unique I didn't really look any farther. Groups at 100 yards were about one foot in diameter.

Long story: The Springfield, with it's original sights, was no help in the accuracy I was looking for. So I touched the front sight base with a propane torch & melted the silver solder & then unscrewed the rear sight. I purchased from "Gun Parts" a replacement rear sight & front sight base. I saved the original sights. Then I screwed in the replacement rear sight & after cutting a wider slot in the new front sight base & putting in a Patridge type blade, soldered the new (modified) front sight & base in it's original position. Next step was to file the inverted "V" notch in the new rear sight so that it was a square notch to match the Patridge blade on the front. After sighting in the carbine with load #6 in a "no wind" condition, I then carefully removed the rear sight & soldered it in that position. Then I reinstalled it on the gun. Next I had to do something about the 12# trigger pull. After much work I now have it down to right at 4#.
What all the above stuff accomplished was to cut my one foot groups down to between 6 to 7 inches at 100 yards.
Last step: The fired cases needed boolits at about .463", & my #457124s were casting about .458". I took a .459" sizing die & honed it out to .463". After lubing the boolits in a .459" die I drop them in the .463" die & "squish" them down with an adjustable, flat nosed, top punch & a hammer. Now they load into the fired cases with a firm "slip fit" & the results at 100 yards are usually around 3 inches. Also now have a nice flat nose...
I have killed two deer with this load & both were under 50 yards. Both boolits went completely thru & were not recovered.
oksmle

[bishopgrandpa]

I use the Lee 405HB with 12 grs. unique at 50 yds and make one ragged hole. For jacketed I use a 300JHP from Hornady with 58 grs. of 4064 and a 400 gr. speer with 56 gr. of 4064. They stay in 1"" from my BC.

[Jeffery8mm]

Can you use jacketed data for cast boolits and reduce it by 10% or so and be safe. I know you cant use cast boolits with jacketed data, right.
Jeff

[Johnw...ski]

Jeff,

That is what I usually end up doing. There is not much load data for the .35 Whelen and even less for cast boolits. The data for jacketed has more of the powders I am interested in. The weight of the bullet is the same no matter what it is made of, with this in mind and considering the velocity limits of cast I just start with the minimum loads and work up. I think it's safe to say you will lead the barrel before you reach dangerous pressures.

Why could't you use a jacketed bullet with cast loads? The full performance potential of the jacketed bullet would probably be lost though.

Also look at the load data for 350 Mag., they are very close to the same case capacity. As always start with lighter loads and work up.

Welcome to the world of wildcat cartridges.

John


Can you use jacketed data for cast boolits and reduce it by 10% or so and be safe. I know you cant use cast boolits with jacketed data, right.
Jeff

[35remington]

As an indication of Unique's potential, 16 grains with a Lee 405 FP PB gets 1250 fps from my 22 inch Microgroove Marlin. Shoots quite well, and would work for treestand deer at moderate ranges.

The load is not for trapdoor or any higher pressure intolerant action. Probably runs at 28-30,00 psi.

[Johnw...ski]

As you can tell I confused threads, the .35 Whelen won't help you.

My apologies,

John


Jeff,

That is what I usually end up doing. There is not much load data for the .35 Whelen and even less for cast boolits. The data for jacketed has more of the powders I am interested in. The weight of the bullet is the same no matter what it is made of, with this in mind and considering the velocity limits of cast I just start with the minimum loads and work up. I think it's safe to say you will lead the barrel before you reach dangerous pressures.

Why could't you use a jacketed bullet with cast loads? The full performance potential of the jacketed bullet would probably be lost though.

Also look at the load data for 350 Mag., they are very close to the same case capacity. As always start with lighter loads and work up.

Welcome to the world of wildcat cartridges.

John

[gtim88]

Hi JohnW
I 'm not trying to hijack jeff's thread, but could you elaborate on your H4895 load in the 45/70? what cast bullet, how many grains of 4895, what rifle, etc... Jeff and I are old school friends, we talk shooting, hunting, casting, reloading, politics, fishing and anything else on a daily basis when I'm not in the Gulf of Mexico or Houston, Tx. We are working on the 45/70 project together. The NEF single rifle is legal for use during primitave weapon deer season here in MS. MOA accuracy is important to me because I have respect for any animal that I hunt (one shot, one clean kill is my goal). Jeff and I are using the same mold and probably the same load if it is successfull. I have several pounds of H 4895. It would be great to find a load with this powder - boolet combination. We are both new to casting and are currently using water dropped, unsized wheel weights consistantly dropped at .4595, pan lubed with some old Hodgdon stick lube and parafin mixture My barrell started leading and accuracy dropped from 1.5" to larger than pie plate size at 80 yds w/30 grains of IMR 4227 w/dacron filler (1650fps). I am looking for a load 1800 to 1900 fps no leading and MOA acuracy at 100 yds. Am I asking too much from this rifle?

Thanks
Tim

[Johnw...ski]

Hi Tim,

I have had very good results with 425 gr, boolits from Glenhills Cast Bullits using either 43 gr. of H 4895 or 45 gr. of Benchmark. H 4895 has also shown promise with 535 gr. Postell boolits but I am still working on this.

I am shooting a rifle designed by Frank DeHaas called the FDH #2 that I built.
I started with a 1 in 14" twist 26" barrel and am now ueing a 1 in 18" twist 28" barrel. The 425 gr. bullets work very well in either barrel but the slower twist shows an defenite advantage.

Chech out my thread in the Single Shot Rifle Section, FDH #2 45-70.

John


Hi JohnW
I 'm not trying to hijack jeff's thread, but could you elaborate on your H4895 load in the 45/70? what cast bullet, how many grains of 4895, what rifle, etc... Jeff and I are old school friends, we talk shooting, hunting, casting, reloading, politics, fishing and anything else on a daily basis when I'm not in the Gulf of Mexico or Houston, Tx. We are working on the 45/70 project together. The NEF single rifle is legal for use during primitave weapon deer season here in MS. MOA accuracy is important to me because I have respect for any animal that I hunt (one shot, one clean kill is my goal). Jeff and I are using the same mold and probably the same load if it is successfull. I have several pounds of H 4895. It would be great to find a load with this powder - boolet combination. We are both new to casting and are currently using water dropped, unsized wheel weights consistantly dropped at .4595, pan lubed with some old Hodgdon stick lube and parafin mixture My barrell started leading and accuracy dropped from 1.5" to larger than pie plate size at 80 yds w/30 grains of IMR 4227 w/dacron filler (1650fps). I am looking for a load 1800 to 1900 fps no leading and MOA acuracy at 100 yds. Am I asking too much from this rifle?

Thanks
Tim

[Jeffery8mm]

15-19gr of unique behind the 330gr using standard primers makes a good plinker load.

Wiljen, I have loaded up some of these starting at 15 and going to 19.
I plan on shooting these this weekend.

I have the 48th lyman and it does not list Unique in the 45-70, but someone stated that the 47th does. I called Lyman and they would not give me that data. Said you are supposed to use the latest manual. If anyone has the 47th, would you please scan a copy here or just give me the loads. Also, is a filler necessary. I dont want to use one but there is ALOT of empty space in there with even 19 gr of Unique.
Also, If IMR4064 is slower that 3031, wouldnt it fill up more of the case, and preform as good or better?

Thanks for all the help so far.

Jeff

[45 2.1]

Jeff-
I've not had good luck with Unique in the 4570, mainly due to ignition problems. Unique bloops some on me, which is very irritating when your out hunting and it sticks a boolit in your barrel. What I have had extremely good luck with is SR4759. You should try some as it is the best powder in the 4570 for accuracy and any load from about 900 fps to about 1800 fps.