Breaking in a new barrel

[lind0001]

Fellow CB'ers:
I have a new, stainless steel, Krieger 5-R barrel in .308 WCF. I want to only use CBs in the gun. How do I break it in? There seems to be a plethora of methods, but none that address the idea of using lead bullets exclusively. I welcome your input.

[lefty o]

a good hand lapped krieger will clean up with about 10 rnds of shoot/clean with a jacketed bullet. imo id run a handful of jacketed thru it first , then switch to lead.

[M-Tecs]

IMHO the real benefit for breaking in a barrels like Krieger"s is to smooth out the lead angle in the throat. Even in dedicated lead bullet guns I use jacketed for break in. The bore scope doesn't show much progress with lead. Also with jacketed bullets the chemical cleaners show positive indicators when the copper is fully removed. I haven't found the equivalent for lead removal.

[dverna]

Agree with using jacketed for barrel break in.

Don Verna

[lightman]

On my Kriegers I fire one shot and patch it out, fire one shot and patch it out, and continue to do this until the one shot shows no copper on the patch. This us usually between 6 and 10 shots. Then I shoot it like I live! This is with jacketed bullets.

[runfiverun]

I put ammo in the chamber and pull the trigger.
if I see accuracy wander a bit I clean the barrel.
what's the worst that could happen??, you gonna fill some chatter marks or smooth them off.
a good barrel should be smooth from the start.

[M-Tecs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW6SF-jlbkg

[Scharfschuetze]

I've gone the full Monty on breaking in a few match barrels, but I'm not sure that I really needed to. A good quality barrel will at least require much less break in than an average barrel. Any more, I just shoot and clean well afterwards. I do have a new match barrel for an AR15 National Match rifle yet to be installed. I guess I'll see how it shoots and cleans up first before investing the time required for breaking it in.

I haven't bought a new factory rifle in many years, but I've rebarreled a few Springfields and M1 Garands with GI barrels. For those, depending on the internal finish, I use the Wheeler fire lapping kit. In doing so, I measure the throats with military gauges to track any excessive wear. I've not noted any enlargement of the bore before or after. The final finish is very shiny and resists copper fowling well and just about refused to lead with even very fast cast loads.

When using the kit, the throat or lead will advance slightly depending on the grit and how many rounds are used with this kit. In one particularly rough 1903A3 2 groove barrel, I did notice the lead advance .005 to .006" after a double treatment. I noticed no apparent degradation in accuracy though and it gets shot routinely throughout the year with M2 Ball, SMKs, M72 Match and cast bullets.


IMHO the real benefit for breaking in a barrels like Krieger"s is to smooth out the lead angle in the throat.

M-Tecs, perhaps this would be of some help in sorting the throat out?

[M-Tecs]

MTec, perhaps this would be of some help?

I have yet to see a barrel shoot to match standards with a rough and or uneven leaded angles. I converted all by reamers to carbide in the mid 90's mainly do to the superior finish they produce in the lead angle. High pressure thru the muzzle flush helps also. I have spent close to $8,000 in carbide chamber reamer so yes I do believe it makes a difference.

I have bores scoped and rechambered problem rifles due to others peoples poor workmanship. Having galling and tearing of one or more lands is common with marginal lubrication and dull reamers. Copper builds up on the galled areas and stops the normal wear. I cant tell you how much it effect accuracy but after rechambering accuracy increased significantly.

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

I'm the odd fellow out here but I thought I'd say something.

I've re-barreled 5 or six cast bullet rifles with new carbon steel tubes from various manufactures - then used them steadily in match shooting with no special break-in procedures at all. ~ Certainly never with so much as a single round of jacketed being fired then or now.

The most outstanding is the 50/90SS barrel I got from a fellow who specialized in making 50-BMG barrels for sniper rifles. I did this because they offered their barrel in the 1:20 twist I deemed necessary to stabilize my 700 grain cast bullets.

The gun worked perfectly from the first shot. Winning the 1000 up in Montana.

FAsmus

[gnostic]

About sixty years ago, I read in the NRA magazine, that rifle barrels don't require a break-in and cast bullets didn't leave measurable wear in a two thousand round test. As a result, I've never gone through the break-in process with any of my guns, and have never had a problem. It seems logical, if a few rounds would smooth or somehow change the barrel, a few hundred would wear it out. Rifle barrels wear out in the first few inches from the chamber. And, I own several barrel that were shortened, rechambered and still shoot half inch all day. So, just go for it, with cast bullets you'll have a hard time wearing a barrel out.

[mcdaniel.mac]

About sixty years ago, I read in the NRA magazine, that rifle barrels don't require a break-in and cast bullets didn't leave measurable wear in a two thousand round test. As a result, I've never gone through the break-in process with any of my guns, and have never had a problem. It seems logical, if a few rounds would smooth or somehow change the barrel, a few hundred would wear it out. Rifle barrels wear out in the first few inches from the chamber. And, I own several barrel that were shortened, rechambered and still shoot half inch all day. So, just go for it, with cast bullets you'll have a hard time wearing a barrel out.
A certain Mr. McMillan would agree, with the caveat being that -properly finished and constructed- barrels don't need it. Much like cheap guns, cheap barrels may benefit from a thorough cleaning and accuracy can certainly tighten up if it was poorly finished at the factory. I don't shoot PRS, nor do I shoot McMillan quality barrels, but I've never subscribed to a particular method of break in either.

[Shiloh]

I break them in by shooting them. Your Kreiger barrel will probably only take a few shots of jacket bullets. With cast, It will last forever.

Shiloh

[lind0001]

Guys:

Thank you all for your valuable input. Enlightening, to say the least. I will try the jacketed bullet method, one-shot then clean. Once the throat cleans up. then it's lead bullets only.

[Love Life]

I use the Tubbs Final Finish kit.

[Lloyd Smale]

Like others I doubt if it needs a thing. That said any new rifle or handgun I get will get 20-50 jacketed bullets through it before I shoot cast. Don't really know if it does a lot but its the way I was taught.

[tazman]

Barrels vary. Some break in quickly, some take more time.
I had one rifle I nearly gave up on before it finally settled down and shot well. That one took nearly 100 rounds to break in. Now it shoots sub moa all day. It had been improving slowly the whole time which is why I continued with it.
My break in method is determined by the first few shots. I shoot 3 rounds and check for group then clean. Repeat this 3 times. Use these groups to get sighted in. If the rifle is shooting well I will start shooting 5 shot groups. If not, I will continue the 3 shots and clean until the groups get better or until the cleaning process gets easy which indicates that things have smoothed out. After that I will shoot groups of 5 shots at various distances until the accuracy starts to drop off, then clean again. This gives me a good idea of how many rounds I can shoot accurately before cleaning.
If the rifle continues to shoot poorly, I will try different loads and bullet weights until I find what it likes.
If, after 4 trips to the range and giving the rifle a long workout, the rifle continues to shoot poorly, I will move it on down the road. Life is too short to spend it shooting an inaccurate rifle.

[FAsmus]

tazman (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?34294-tazman):

I got to wondering if you're shooting jacketed or cast for this break-in procedure.

The reason I ask is because you mention: "I will shoot groups of 5 shots at various distances until the accuracy starts to drop off, then clean again. This gives me a good idea of how many rounds I can shoot accurately before cleaning."

Now I know I'm not representative of all cast bullet riflemen but I have found over the years that a when I shoot a good, accurate cast bullet load I may forget cleaning entirely just so long as I keep shooting the rifle regularly, say every week or less.

When shooting jacketed this is, like you say, not the case.

- Forrest

[tazman]

I shoot jacketed for break in. Cast boolits by themselves(no lapping compound) don't do anything to smooth out the throat. Once the throat is smooth everything will work better.
I have only had one rifle that the throat was smooth enough to work properly from the first bullet/boolit and I have owned a lot of different rifles.
Once you dedicate a rifle to cast you can go long periods without cleaning just as with a handgun. The lube seems to thinly coat the bore and "season" it so the bore stays clean and there is no build up.
The only issue is you need a good lube to do this. A lot depends on what velocity you are loading as to what lube you need to use. I don't really have a recommendation for that. I haven't done the research others on this site have.

[FAsmus]

tazman (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?34294-tazman):

Hey, thanks for straightening that out.

You say: "Once you dedicate a rifle to cast you can go long periods without cleaning just as with a handgun. The lube seems to thinly coat the bore and "season" it so the bore stays clean and there is no build up. The only issue is you need a good lube to do this. A lot depends on what velocity you are loading as to what lube you need to use. I don't really have a recommendation for that."

Yes, I agree with all that.

I once fired 1000 recorded rounds through one of my rifles over the course of a summer to establish an answer to this question for myself. The rifle printed consistently all season except if I let it sit for two weeks or more. Then it took about five rounds to return to its usual level of performance each time this happened.

I won't go into the lube question too much, any more than you have ~ it seems that almost every single cast bullet shooter has personal ideas about what is best for their shooting.

I used M&N until they went out of business and then Javelina for years until they disappeared too. Now it is White Lable's offerings..

Good morning, Forrest

[BCB]

Just got an MGM barrel a couple of weeks ago. I indicates to fire a shot then clean, fire another shot then clean…

Then shoot a couple of 5-shot groups and clean. That is about it. MGM indicates that the accuracy will tell you went to clean again…

I did it that way and now I can fire a dozen or so rounds and then clean. I don’t really notice an accuracy issue as I am still working on a good powder/NOE 311-202-RN combination. I think I found that WC-860 works the best so far, but that is another story…

This barrel, in 30-40 Krag, will shoot cast only, at least as long as I own the barrel…

Other factory barrels I have, I really never did a regimented break-in. Just shoot and clean a bit more at the beginning, then as needed. Some of those rifles are near or over the ½ century age and they still shoot quite well—not benchrest quality, but they weren’t benchrest rifles…

Good-luck…BCB

[JSnover]

Other factory barrels I have, I really never did a regimented break-in. Just shoot and clean a bit more at the beginning, then as needed. Some of those rifles are near or over the ½ century age and they still shoot quite well—not benchrest quality, but they weren’t benchrest rifles…

Good-luck…BCB
Yep! Those barrels broke themselves in, it just took them longer.
If someone bought a rifle for competition I guess it wouldn't be wrong to do a little more if for no other reason than to get the POI to settle in, at which point the break-in is pretty near done. I might apply the same to rifles bought for long shots at game.

[tazman]

tazman (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?34294-tazman):

You say: "Once you dedicate a rifle to cast you can go long periods without cleaning just as with a handgun.

I once fired 1000 recorded rounds through one of my rifles over the course of a summer to establish an answer to this question for myself. The rifle printed consistently all season except if I let it sit for two weeks or more. Then it took about five rounds to return to its usual level of performance each time this happened.
Good morning, Forrest

I have a friend nearby on the other side of the river in Iowa who had a dedicated cast rifle he used for years and shot constantly. He had recorded nearly 4000 rounds through the barrel. He had a gunsmith inspect it and was told the barrel was for all intents and purposes, new. The wear was almost nonexistent.
Cast just doesn't wear a barrel like jacketed does.

[FAsmus]

tazman (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?34294-tazman);

I started a thread back in 2011 "The 10,000 round M70 on the line". It went on to a couple pages of responses - forgotten by most .. anyway the rifle is now up to 13,200 - or so - since in the early days of that barrel when it was chambered in 30 Herrett LN I wasn't counting.

You gotta love these cast bullets..

Forrest

[PositiveCaster]

Barrel break-in is supposed to remove rough spots and burrs in the rifling. Jacketed bullets can do this well if their copper fouling is removed after every shot. Custom barrels are hand lapped to remove these very problems, but factory barrels may benefit from lapping.

My 1980s-vintage M1894 Trapper had a pretty rough bore, so I cast up 100 Lee 250 FN and "lubed" them by hand with JB Paste. Fired over a mild charge of W231 and patching out every 20 shots resulted in a truly mirror finish to the bore. Yes, it is really shiny.

Leading is almost non existant with properly-sized boolits no matter the velocity. It really likes 15.5 grains of BlueDot under the Lee 250 FN. Mild recoil, excellent accuracy, kills deer well. A Fastfire III is the targeting system...


.

[10x]

Gentlemen;

I'm the odd fellow out here but I thought I'd say something.

I've re-barreled 5 or six cast bullet rifles with new carbon steel tubes from various manufactures - then used them steadily in match shooting with no special break-in procedures at all. ~ Certainly never with so much as a single round of jacketed being fired then or now.

The most outstanding is the 50/90SS barrel I got from a fellow who specialized in making 50-BMG barrels for sniper rifles. I did this because they offered their barrel in the 1:20 twist I deemed necessary to stabilize my 700 grain cast bullets.

The gun worked perfectly from the first shot. Winning the 1000 up in Montana.

FAsmus

This^^^^^

i started my brand new heavy barrel M700 with Lee 150 grain powder coated cast bullets, no break in. The first group and subsequent groups have been consistently small.
The gun is far more accurate than I am. I gave up on "barrel break in" as a waste of time.
The only time I have ever experienced a barrel giving smaller groups was when I practiced more.