Loading with a drop tube??????

[abunaitoo]

I made a drop tube to load for paper cartridge.
36" long brass tube.
I measure the powder in a clear volume tube. Then trickle it into the drop tube.
I sometimes get varying heights in the load.
Should I just add more powder to make them equal?????
I'm using the drop tube instead of compressing the powder.

[JSnover]

Try tapping or vibrating the case, or pour the powder more slowly.

[Yellowhouse]

You may be seeing variability in case volume as well.

[Don McDowell]

Check the weights that you pour from your "volume" measure, you could be getting varying amounts of powder in your measure.
There will likely be a slight variation in column height, due to an inconsistent fall rate of the powder, that's why even back in the 1870's the loading instructions said to use the "follower" after pouring the charge in the case.

[abunaitoo]

This is for paper cartridge Chassepot.
I thought a drop tube was suppose to make the charge pack better.

[Don McDowell]

You''l get a bit more powder in, but you still need something to even the height up, unless you are very good at a consistent pour.
And again you may want to check your volume thrown charges on a scale, you may be getting more variation than you think, causing the difference.

[Chill Wills]

Don is giving good advice. There are a few variables, at least three, that can randomly combine to produce different outcomes.
Different starting charge weights.
Different rates of pour down the tube.
(the normal) Differences in how well the powder grains fit next to each other. There is always some difference on this.

And you are right, drop tubes do help make the powder pack better.


The differences likely won't show up on target with what you are doing BUT there are a few things you can do to end up closer to all the same stack heights.

[rfd]

weigh the powder, don't volume measure it.

[doc1876]

You said you were making paper ctgs, how many grains are you attempting to achieve? I have had more varying results with pistol ctgs than rifle ctgs.

[sac]

Check the weights that you pour from your "volume" measure, you could be getting varying amounts of powder in your measure.
There will likely be a slight variation in column height, due to an inconsistent fall rate of the powder, that's why even back in the 1870's the loading instructions said to use the "follower" after pouring the charge in the case.

What is a follower, a compression die?

[KCSO]

There is an art to drop tubing. I usually pour the powder slowly and try not to let it clum in the funnel. If you use a vibratory tumbler put your finger over the case mouth and put the rim of the case on the running vibrator for about 10 seconds and it will settle as well or better than a drop tube.

[abunaitoo]

I think my problem is measuring it by volume and not weight.
I've tried different ways to pack the powder better.
I made a vibrator out of a tooth brush motor. It worked OK, but not consistent.
Next I poured it and pushed it down with a wood dowel. This is how I'd doing it now.
I put a paper wad over the powder and take up the space with COW.
I will try weighing the powder instead of measuring by volume.
Just have to find a non metallic pan for the scale.

[Bent Ramrod]

I "semi-weigh" my black powder charges, dropping them from the measure into the scale pan, checking the weight and then pouring for a count of four into the drop tube. I tap the drop tube after the pour to knock out any stray particles. This compacts the powder enough so I can turn the case over and have a certain amount not fall out, unless the case is tapped. Dumping it into the case with a funnel does not produce this effect, it all comes out no matter how slowly I tip the case up

My permissible charges are + or - 1/2 grain of the charge I want, and usually 45 out of 50 are in this range. The others I dump back into the measure and try again. There are minor differences in the charge height, even in the paper cartridges I make for my Sharps, but this is to be expected, given the particle size distribution of the powder. Slight height variations from one charge to another are inevitable.

A friend who is a better shot than I am tested varying charges in his Sharps .45-70 cartridge rifle at 600 yards and found no significant elevation changes until the charges varied by 3 grains. That's a fair amount of "slop," especially for shorter distances.

A metal scale pan, and, for that matter, a metal powder dispenser is what you want if you worry about static electricity. They will drain it off, whereas plastic will accumulate it on its surface until it can hold no more, and then spark. However, small surfaces on nonconducting materials don't hold enough static to be a problem. Just imagine the static buildup in a powder horn as the contents slosh around during a three-day Rondevoux. I haven't heard any news of exploding Mountain Men, at least to date.

[John Boy]

I think my problem is measuring it by volume and not weight.
Yes volume charging will create a different settled column height because it is not as precise as scale weighed charges. But don't fret about a minor height difference - black powder is a weak powder. And words from a Multiple Record Holder:
Guys,
I'm also going to weigh in my 2 cents. When I started shooting these cartridge rifles about 20 years ago, I weighed powder, cases, and bullets. After a few years, I ended up just weighing the bullets and the powder only to set up the measure. For at least the last 10 years I've not measured the weights of individual powder charges other then as a spot check.
The measures I use are Lyman 55 (2), for 38 and 32 caliber. And the old Hollywood for 40 / 45 calibers. I also use a Belding and Mull for my LR muzzleloaders. I find the B+M the most accurate but the others adequate and capable of +/- 0.3 gr or slightly less on average.

Since switching over to Swiss powder when it became available around 8 years ago, I look for a average amount of compression to determine the powder weight to set the measure to. I also use Schuetzen FG powder for reduced recoil / velocity loads.

I load for both myself and wife. She makes wads, lubes and weighs bullets. At the risk of sounding like a braggart, between us we have 40 National Records in Open, Military, Scope, Muzzleloader and Womens catagories for BP Target rifle. And 10 National Championships between Canada and the U.S. in likewise catagories. We don't shoot silhouette.

To me, the bullet is the most important. Weight, design, appearance and alloy.
Powder kept around 1/2 grain total variance = good enough. Being able to break a shot down the center, call it and read wind and mirage, priceless......

Now this is going to upset some, but we cannot measure / weigh ourselves into the winners circle. It takes range time. I feel much of the time spent at the loading bench would be better spent at the range. I'll grant that weighing everything to a nanograin gives a sense of confidence in the ammo, but perfect ammo won't put the bullet into the center by itself. Frank Monikowski

[Lead pot]

Quite frankly I don't see much difference in accuracy /vertical/ just dropping the powder from my 55 Lyman powder drop. But I do weigh every load for my match loads, saying this, it is a Linus security blanky thing like the Charlie Brown corrector uses. :)
If you want very consistent powder drops from powder drops like the Lyman 55 you might try this. Use a small permanent magnet motor there are some smaller then what you have on a tumbler and put a counter weight on it and maybe a light dimmer switch on the powder cord to slow it down and mount it on the shelf your powder drop is mounted on. Raise the lever on the powder drop and let it fill with powder while your putting a wad in the case you just filled with powder. The vibration will fill the PD very consistently in the short time between filling cases to drop with in 2/10 or less.
Compressing powder does more harm to accuracy when it has a difference in the variance changes. But you won't see it with a 1/2 grain more or less. I cant anyway.

[abunaitoo]

Load up some rounds last night weighing the powder.
I still used the drop tube.
It seemed to work OK.
Going to try them today.

My goal is to have no filler. Only powder and boolet.
With the needle gun the length of the cartridge is critical.
That's why I'm trying 1F and Cannon powder.
Hoping more bulk will take up more space.
With the 2F, I have to add filler for the best accuracy.
I'll probably still have to have a filler for best accuracy, but you never know.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

2 gns of powder (1f or 1.5f) will give about 1 moa difference in elevation from 600 on out.
2 gns of bullet weight on the other hand is almost unnoticeable in p.o.a. change, for the same nose profile.
keep safe,
bruce.

[abunaitoo]

Loaded 5 rounds of each,1F and Cannon, full to the bottom of the boolet.
Weighed the charge this time for more consistency. 36" drop tube. Did not compress powder.
Copy paper wad over powder.
Cleaned barrel between powder change.
The 1F shot 1" to 2" at 50yds. Nice group. All together.
The Cannon shot 2" to 3" at 50yds.
1F, moderate recoil, clean burn, not much rubbish.
Cannon had noticeably less recoil, lots more smoke, and was more dirty.
Going to load more of the 1F to see how it shoots at 100yds.