Lube in Very Long barrels - Sharps, H&R Buffalo etc

[Kevinkd]

Hello all. I've been using the 45-45-10 on my 38 and 45 with great success. Made some of my own and bought some white label, both work superbly.

I've got 3 different 45-70 that all love the 450gr lee boolit which I've been lubing with the NRA 50/50 stuff. It works good, but I've run out. I'm tempted to use the 45-45-10, but with the really long barrels I'm worried it wont last in that length of barrel.
I've also just got my hands on a few pounds of bees wax and have been looking at making either bens red or the simple lube in this forum (both look awesome) and I've got the bees wax.

My main question is that I also have about 40lbs of old candles that I would like to use somehow if possible in a lube (even a small portion would be great to use it up). I go through alot of lube (those big slugs use a ton of lube each).

Any suggestions would be great. If these lubes are too crazy to change, I'll probably make both Bens red and the simple lube to compare them.

thanks again

[Outpost75]

I used to shoot about 100 rounds per week of .45-70 black powder loads in an original 1884 trapdoor at steel targets with a group of retired MTU shooters who did likewise. We shot the full sized metallic silhouette ram at 200 meters offhand and the course of fire was 40 shots on a day's shoot. Extra rounds might be needed for shoot-offs to break ties.

To be in the money you had to be able to hit 35 targets out of 40. A great score was 38 out of 40. Occasionally we had guys go 40 straight and they would then keep going swapping shots until somebody missed. Best score I witnessed was 60 straight fired by the late LTC Ellis Lea, USA (Ret.) when he was 82 years old. Ellis was the coach of the US shooting team for the 40th World Shooting Championships which were then held in Mexico City.

Most everybody spit-patched every 5 shots or blow-tubed between shots. SPG lube was not then available. Almost everybody used 50-50 mutton tallow or ordinary lard and beeswax. Today I still use equal parts by melted volume of Goya Manteca and beeswax. This lube works well with smokeless also. I shot thousands of rounds of 11 grains of 700-X in the trapdoor, no filler with a 370-grain .462" Hoch nose-pour bullet of shape like the original .45-70 carbine bullet, or alternately with 60 grains of Goex 3Fg 1/16" card and 1/4" felt wad, compressed 1/8" all bullets cast 1:40 and never had a speck of leading. Even though subsonic, accuracy was stellar and it killed deer too.

[M-Tecs]

Randy on this forum is a great source of low cost lub and lub components http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?146-ALLEEBEE-S-beeswax-lube-amp-products

[runfiverun]

look up the old NRA lube it was 50-50 paraffin and bees-wax cut with @40-50% Vaseline.
the Vaseline softens the bees-wax and plasticizes the paraffin.


try the 45/45 lube.
I use it in my 45-70 with smokeless and it manages to get the boolit down the barrel just fine.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

run5, if I might add,white petrolatum is a cheaper substitute, I wouldn't know that if it wasn't for runfive here, and it works mighty well. it actually isn't a substitute, because its the same main ingredient, more of an off-brand kind of thing. sorry if I am stepping on you toes run, I was just going to mention white petrolatum but saw you beat me to it. have a great day! Travis

[mdi]

I'm tempted to use the 45-45-10, but with the really long barrels I'm worried it wont last in that length of barrel. What's the worse case scenario? Try your 45-45-10 and shoot a dozen. Look for leading. The downside is your bullets will run out of lube and you'll have to remove a bit of lead. Upside, you will have increased your lube knowledge considerably, plus the satisfaction of a successful experiment (real life experience rather than some anonymous answers)...:mrgreen:

[Kevinkd]

Thanks for the info everyone. I'm not shooting BP out of the 45-70 (only in my cap and ball little 36 pistol LOL), just smokeless. I guess I'll try a few things and see how they go.

Thanks again

[runfiverun]

no Travis your okay.
Vaseline anymore is just that petrolatum.
it used to be petroleum jelly and was full of all kinds of stuff.
they started stripping it down at the refinery's when their techniques improved.
hydrocracking has got the process down to where you pull just about everything available from the oil you can get.
anymore the petrolatum and Vaseline products are basically paraffin wax cut with mineral oil to a point where it is about half way between an oil and a solid.

[randyrat]

Your gonna find your loading technique is the most important to prevent leading. Size of bullet to bore, How tight is the brass squeezing your lead, is it down sizing when you seat the bullet, primer, hardness of brass, seating depth etc...
When you have it all right, there won't be as much stress on the lube and BLL or a tumble lube definitely will work..

Now you get things going down the road and you want to squeeze some/ sometimes lots more accuracy out of a load, this is where the lube is King.
Someday do your own test...Use a Mid load know to be accurate. Use a a Hard lube at least 10 rds, then use a softer lube then a Tumble lube..There will be a difference..If you want a lube to test just PM me for a free sample.

I get about 2" difference at just 50' with my 45 acp using different lubes..Just plinking at cans Who cares, but if you want all the accuracy you can get it makes a difference.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Relating the choice of lube to barrel length isn't the biggest of problems, for the longer the barrel, the lower the terminal pressure. I'd say size of lube grooves becomes more critical than what you put in them, so long as it is soft if the powder is black.

In childhood, which was a while back but not the Victorian era, I used candle wax for modelling. Although I think it is mostly still described as paraffin wax, candles don't soften at hand heat like they used to be. I would check from a small sample that those candles mix with anything I wanted to mix them with.

[waksupi]

In hot dry conditions, I always needed to use a grease cookie to avoid nasty fowling in long barrels.

[Bird]

After mixing up a large batch of ben's red, I don't see the need to try any other lubes. It works, and it works good for anything I cast for. If I were shooting 1300fps loads, I would probably go with a tumble lube, just to save time.