1894 takedown conversion?

[andym79]

Hi, guys I have been toying with the idea of getting one of my 94s converted to a takedown.

Reason being easier to clean, easy to transport and the possibility of having more than one barrel to suit an action, so that I can add another cartridge or two without having to buy entire actions and get police approval over and over again.

Anyway, I don't think we need talk about the reason for wanting a takedown I just do.

I have a barrels in 25-35, 30-30 and 38-55.

I am thinking of getting a barrel, forearm tube set made up for each and having them fitted to the same action.

The smith would need to make up a plate, thread the magazine tube, fit a takedown style magazine plug and interrupt the threads so that a 1/4 turn engages them.

The real question I have is do you think they could be indexed without needing to cutting a bit of the barrel and rechambering? The smith says he need to see an measure it all up!

From anyone's experience is a recutting of the chamber usually necessary for this sort of thing?

I ask because the local guy only has a 30-30 reamer and not the other two, the nearest guy who has all 3 is 1500 miles away, and it would be nice to use a local for a change.

Thanks

[Greg S]

Owning three take downs, to cut the intermittent threads, turn the barrel for the mating plate can be real close but it would be better to run a reamer to take another .005-.050 than to take another thread and re-index everything twice. Sometimes it pays to have a shop that does this type of conversion regularly do the work instead of a local re-inventing/learning the process on your gun.

The two I still own are completely different, an 1886 style in 45-70 and an 1892 Trapper in 45 Colt.

[andym79]

So you reckon a reamer is a must to do it right?

[Reverend Al]

Winchester already thought of this ... back in 1895 on mine ...

:bigsmyl2:

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/Winchester%201894%20Take%20Down%2030%20WCF%20mfg%2 01895%20023%20Large_zps2kmf55se.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/Winchester%201894%20Take%20Down%2030%20WCF%20mfg%2 01895%20023%20Large_zps2kmf55se.jpg.html)

[bob208]

get the book the" nra gunsmithing guide-updated." it tells you how to do it. you do not need interrupted threads. just screw the barrel on and off. I have done 2 years ago. right I am thinking about doing another one only this time using both the carbine barrel and adding a part round rifle barrel.

[andym79]

Thanks guys, so a reamer may well be required?

I am happy to buy the book, but as I won't get it in the next couple of days, because it not on kindle. How is the takedown conversion done so that you can easily remove the barrel without removing the forearm, forearm cap and magazine tube and putting the barrel in a vice?

Do you leave the threads as they are and just fit the plate and add a thread to the magazine tube? The barrel would still be too tight to hand unthreaded though!

[ulav8r]

There is no real reason a reamer should be required if each barrel has the correct headspace to begin with. If there is variation in the threaded length from barrel to barrel, the blocks fitted to the barrels can be adjusted in thickness to allow for the variation.

[725]

Long ago, NRA published a gunsmith's guide that included a '94 take-down project. Some research might reveal it.

[andym79]

get the book the" nra gunsmithing guide-updated." it tells you how to do it. you do not need interrupted threads. just screw the barrel on and off. I have done 2 years ago. right I am thinking about doing another one only this time using both the carbine barrel and adding a part round rifle barrel.

Hi can anyone give me advice on the method without using interrupted threads, as the NRA book is going to take a month to get down under!

[Artful]

Well, I don't have a takedown 1894 but do have a swap barrel Winchester Model 70 post 64 push feed and have no problem hand tightening my barrels and adjusting headspace and using a spanner to tighten the jam nut (ala: Savage system).

[Ballistics in Scotland]

get the book the" nra gunsmithing guide-updated." it tells you how to do it. you do not need interrupted threads. just screw the barrel on and off. I have done 2 years ago. right I am thinking about doing another one only this time using both the carbine barrel and adding a part round rifle barrel.

Yes, it's an excellent book, and I've got mine. It is only updated up to 1980 or so, so it is a bit dated on modern materials, and modern guns if you are interested in that kind of thing. It used to be very expensive on www.bookfinder.com (http://www.bookfinder.com), but I see one or two reasonably priced copies now. Beware of the original "NRA Gunsmithing Guide", as I don't know if that included the takedown Winchester article.

I agree, you save very little trouble with the interrupted threads, which are the part of the operation that is demanding in skills and facilities. The rest of the job is well within the capacity of the amateur. If you feel the need to extend the barrel threads and screw the takedown plate in place, there is a 13/16x20 UNS tap and die size, quite common on eBay. The Winchester barrel thread is usually given as .809x20, which is three or four thousandths under 13/16in., and it may or may not really be so. The flanks, not the crests are what count. But it would surely be good enough for the takedown plate.

[bob208]

on the conversions the barrel is threaded in. the block on the barrel is tight against the face of the receiver. the hard part of the conversion is the facing off of the lips on the receiver where the forearm wood is inletted in to.

[andym79]

Does anyone have the article from the NRA, it will take me a month to get the book, and if some one could scan and email me the relevant pages it would be greatly appreciated.

[andym79]

Winchester already thought of this ... back in 1895 on mine ...

:bigsmyl2:


http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/Winchester%201894%20Take%20Down%2030%20WCF%20mfg%2 01895%20023%20Large_zps2kmf55se.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/Winchester%201894%20Take%20Down%2030%20WCF%20mfg%2 01895%20023%20Large_zps2kmf55se.jpg.html)

Nice rifle is it an interrupted thread?

[kingstrider]

I'm trying to work my way up to converting a Rossi 92 like this guy:
http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/rossi-1892-winchester-take-down-conversion.html

[OlDeuce]

Does any MFG. Co. make the takedown block ????? Ol Deuce185146

[Reverend Al]

Nice rifle is it an interrupted thread?

No, Winchester used full thread barrels on their factory take down models. This one was mfg in 1895, 2nd year of production for the model and is chambered in .30 WCF which was introduced that year. Excellent bore and it has the special order 3 leaf express rear sight. I also have an 1892 octagon take down rifle in .44 WCF (.44-40 Winchester) with an excellent bore.

[rbertalotto]

Here is how I did it on a 92. Would be the same for a 94

www.rvbprecision.com

[chuckerbird]

185307
I realize it's not a '94 but it's my first takedown and I really like it. 44-40, made in 2008, by winchester/Mirouko.

[OlDeuce]

185307
I realize it's not a '94 but it's my first takedown and I really like it. 44-40, made in 2008, by winchester/Mirouko.

Your '92 sure looks like a High quality Rifle !! :-)

[John Taylor]

The hardest part in making a 92, 94,86,85 or 95 takedown is making the frame extension. I don't interrupt the threads because I believe it makes the setup weaker, altho I will interrupt the threads on the barrel when doing a rifle that has the action already done. A standard barrel can be altered to make a takedown by extending the threads and cutting a new dovetail in the barrel for the forearm cap. Also it will require a mag tube that is threaded for the frame extension and set up for the proper end cap with lever (not needed on the 85 or 95 )

[OlDeuce]

The hardest part in making a 92, 94,86,85 or 95 takedown is making the frame extension. I don't interrupt the threads because I believe it makes the setup weaker, altho I will interrupt the threads on the barrel when doing a rifle that has the action already done. A standard barrel can be altered to make a takedown by extending the threads and cutting a new dovetail in the barrel for the forearm cap. Also it will require a mag tube that is threaded for the frame extension and set up for the proper end cap with lever (not needed on the 85 or 95 )

Hi John......The modern '94 takedown ! can the frame extension be used from those??? also could you just cut off the front of an action and start
with that much?????????? Randy

[bob208]

no you can not cut off part of the frame. the extension is not that hard to make. can be done with a mill and a file. lacking the tools to do the job. you would be better to talk to john t. and let him do the job.

[John Taylor]

Pictured is a 94 that is being made to a takedown. The front lip was taken off the frame and the action was trued up to the threaded bore. Frame extension was made from 4140 heat treated steel. The used one in the picture was damaged when someone removed it with a hammer.The mag tube has been threaded for the frame extension. I had to make a special tap for the frame extension, the one pictured is for the larger 86. The mag tube plug and takedown lever were copied from an original. This 94 will have a 30" barrel and mag tube. Frame extension still has to be polished down to match the frame.

185398

[OlDeuce]

Thats way cool John! one of my future projects is to add a 32-40 barrel to my takedown Some day :-)

Ol Deuce

[John Taylor]

I did a four barrel set for an 86 several years back.

[andym79]

Hi guys, maybe I am being a bit dull but when using the full thread method, if the barrel before the takedown conversion needed a wrench and vice to tighten right up so that the extractor slot lines up with the extractor. Then what is modified so that you suddenly have enough torque with your bear hands to unscrew it?

This question assumes that headspace is maintained by using the original shoulder on the barrel. Is that not the case?

[OverMax]

About a year ago a member by the name of Beagle333 sent me some info about a Gun smith some where's making specific parts used in a 94s conversion. As I recall once the conversion was done with his adapter parts. You couldn't tell the difference from factory to a 94 adapted to a take-down.
Try asking the Beagle for the info.

[John Taylor]

andym79. The threads on the barrel are extended for the frame extension (about 3/8" ). The frame extension acts as a new shoulder and the barrel is only hand tight in the action. The mag tube is threaded and when screwed in goes part way into the frame and keeps the barrel from unscrewing.

[andym79]

andym79. The threads on the barrel are extended for the frame extension (about 3/8" ). The frame extension acts as a new shoulder and the barrel is only hand tight in the action. The mag tube is threaded and when screwed in goes part way into the frame and keeps the barrel from unscrewing.

Thanks John, so the method shown in this photo isn't the best way?

185567

Your are better off extending the threads?

If the extension piece is the new shoulder and the barrel is looser, then is it necessary to do any recutting of the chamber to ensure correct head spacing or cut a new extractor groove?

Or am I over thinking this and simply by taking a couple of thousands off it has enough slop to do up by hand?

I ask all of these question because my local gunsmith has limit reamer, and the guy who keeps all the odd ball ones that I like and I normally use is 1500 miles away.

Sorry for my lack of knowledge in these areas.

[John Taylor]

The barrel comes up in the same spot as before, no chamber reamer needed and the timing is the same, sights still on top. The frame extension has to be timed to the barrel. I usually make the frame extension a little thicker than needed and take enough off for the frame to time right. Might want to try on a scrap barrel several times before using the good barrel.

[andym79]

Thanks John. So it can be done with a push on shoulder for the block or an extension of the thread for the block.

I assume that the advantage of the push fit is less machining, but the advantage of the threaded method is the block is firmer an the block can be easily removed for extra machining etc, is that correct?

With regard to the magazine tube is the any advantage over the threaded tube vs the spring loaded pull out that warrants the extra machining? In the Winchester original how hard is the twist cap with lever to machine?

Is the block best made of steel because of expansion differences between steel and aluminium, as some are done in aluminum?

Thanks Andy

[John Taylor]

So many questions. Might be best if you look at an original to see how it is done. There are probably many ways to make it different, I only know how the original was made. Turnbull might be making frame extensions, I traded some 1895 for some 1886 several years back.

[vh2q]

Any sources other than Turnbull for a correct receiver extension? I would like to add a second (round) barrel assy in 25-35 to my 32 Spl half octagon TD without messing with the collector value of the original. Homestead has the remaining parts necessary. Alternatively, I suppose I could just replace the barrel but it would have to be an octagon or half octagon (nobody seems to have those in 257) and I fear it would be hard to index the barrel without modifying the existing receiver extension, something I don't want to do.