Fear ?

[Boaz]

Should we fear GOD ?

[Taylor]

I think fear is in the mind of the individual,to be justified in his own self.Respected,you damn skippy!

[rancher1913]

if you fear your best friend then you are doing something wrong.

[DCM]

I believe that one should love God and fear not getting to meet him when one is through with this world.

[USMC87]

Fear is the beginning of knowledge.

[Bzcraig]

Fear is the beginning of knowledge.

Beat me to it brother.

[johnson1942]

in the old greek the word fear is closely associated with the words respect and holyness. we all know what respect means but some dont know the meaning of holyness. it means to live with out practicing sin. so in that original light of the word fear, we should respect God and try very hard to live a sin free life. thanks for bringing that up and hope it clears it up for many.

[Alabama358]

Psalms 34:7

The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.

[1johnlb]

Should we fear GOD ?

According to the Bible, Yes

But then it depends on what your meaning of we is.

"We" as a human. We had best fear God.

While, "We" as Christians feared God at least once enough to find out who He is, thus becoming wise. Then understanding came and "we" removed ourselves from sin. Thus becoming lovers of God and understanding the love of God, for us all John3;16 and 1 john4:18. That gives us peace through Faith in love.

I like the way it's quoted in Job 28

*And to man He said,
‘Behold, the fear of the Lord, that*is wisdom,
And to depart from evil*is understanding.’”

Fear = wisdom + understanding = faith, hope and love = peace with God

1john 4:18
New Living Translation
Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love.

[koehlerrk]

Do I fear God? No. He is my father, and He loves me very much.

Do I fear His wrath? Yes, you'd have to be an idiot to not fear that.

Do I fear disappointing Him? Yes, because I have chosen to live my life attempting to meet the standards set by His son. I know I'll never meet that standard, but I keep trying anyways.

Do I fear Him abandoning me? No, because no matter how many times I mess up, no matter how many times I fall short of His standards, I know that His son, Jesus, has died for ALL my shortcomings, and that is all the reassurance that little old me requires.

[Preacher Jim]

Fear brings reverence of God giving him the top place He deserves to be in your life.

[johnson1942]

listen to koehlerrk as it can not be put better than he put it. he knows his God and he knows his Son as they should be.

[1johnlb]

Fear is just an emotion. Fear is the evidence of no Faith. They are direct opposites. So a man that fears has yet to come into relation with the Creator.

[Ickisrulz]

You must define the word "fear" to arrive at meaningful answers. The use of the word "fear" in the Bible ranges from absolute terror to reverence to respect. "Fear" is also used to name an emotion, an attitude or a motivation.

[Boaz]

Then define it .

[LAH]

Fear as reverence, this I do.

Fear as afraid, this I do.

I think anyone who would meet God as Moses did would be afraid. People in the Bible meeting angels were afraid. How much more would it be to meet God. Once in heaven things will certainly be different.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

[Boaz]

Many good posts . Thank you . Thought , considering , learning .

[jcwit]

Do I fear God? No. He is my father, and He loves me very much.

Do I fear His wrath? Yes, you'd have to be an idiot to not fear that.

Do I fear disappointing Him? Yes, because I have chosen to live my life attempting to meet the standards set by His son. I know I'll never meet that standard, but I keep trying anyways.

Do I fear Him abandoning me? No, because no matter how many times I mess up, no matter how many times I fall short of His standards, I know that His son, Jesus, has died for ALL my shortcomings, and that is all the reassurance that little old me requires.

We had a discussion regarding this in Bible study, our outcome was much the same as what koelerrk posted.

There is also one of the Ten Commendants that stats Thou Shall Not Kill, a better description would be Thou Shall Not Murder. This we also discussed inBible study and came to the conclusion I just stated.

[1johnlb]

Regardless of what your definition of fear is, fear is always birthed in darkness ( lack of knowledge ).

[Ickisrulz]

Then define it .

My point was that if you are asking someone if they do something, you have to define what that something is unless it is obvious. In the case of biblical "fear" it is not obvious and some of the replies have touched on that.

The biblical answer to the question is that sinners should be terrified of God's judgement. This terror should motivate change in the sinner's life. Christians should not be scared of God but should revere him.

Physical manifestations of God (and angels as representatives of God) in the Bible are met with varying responses that range from terror to comfortable acceptance.

It is interesting to note that the limited physical manifestations of Satan in the Bible do not cause fear.

[johnson1942]

i like what is said above. the fear a non or pre christian has is a different kind of fear. non christian is the fear that is the common fear. christians have respect and those two types are very very different. also good point about Satan. i have in my christian life during prayer seen fallen angles or demonic beings face to face. right in front of me as they left the area because victory in prayer followed by the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and not once did they make me afraid. i felt the opposite. if i had not been a christian im sure real afraid fear would have happened. i like this sunday school class we are having as sharing and learning is a good thing. i used the term fallen angles and demonic beings as im not sure if they are the same thing. the fallen angles were in human form and the demonic beings were in a evil abstract form. one looked just like he was from the cast of star wars. they all must obey the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[johnson1942]

i like what is said above. the fear a non or pre christian has is a different kind of fear. non christian is the fear that is the common fear. christians have respect and those two types are very very different. also good point about Satan. i have in my christian life during prayer seen fallen angles or demonic beings face to face. right in front of me as they left the area because victory in prayer followed by the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and not once did they make me afraid. i felt the opposite. if i had not been a christian im sure real afraid fear would have happened. i like this sunday school class we are having as sharing and learning is a good thing. i used the term fallen angles and demonic beings as im not sure if they are the same thing. the fallen angles were in human form and the demonic beings were in a evil abstract form. one looked just like he was from the cast of star wars. they all must obey the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Blackwater]

Johnson and Ick have nailed it. The word "fear" has many different meanings, and shades of meanings, so it's necessary to define what TYPE of fear we're talking about. The worst fear I've ever known is being awakened at 11:00 PM in Da Nang, to the sound of rockets and mortars landing. That'll make your hair stand on end. I was in the transient barracks, and had to rely on other good men with guns to go out and stop it. That will NEVER set right with me, and I VERY quickly overcame my fear, and I'll NEVER want a gun more than I did then.

Fear is something we must overcome, in that type of situation. Fear of God's power and retribution for not following Him IS worthy of a certain type of fear, but like Johnson said, it's one borne of respect, awe and knowledge of His tremendous power over us. But it's always tempered by our Love of and for Him, and that makes it a very different type of "fear" than what I felt in Da Nang. Totally different quantities, but both described by the same word.

Once one becomes a Christian, it's our Love for Him that should be at the fore. But being willful sinners all, we also need a certain amount of a certain type of "fear" within us always. It helps keep us on the straight and narrow, because we're such willful creatures. And Satan always tempts those who believe in particular. He usually just does it in more subtle and indirect ways.

So from my point of view, yes, we should fear God, but that should always be greatly overshadowed out by our Love for Him, and our simple appreciation of all that He has so generously and patiently and lovingly given us. That's my view at the moment, anyway. Fear, as generally conceived, is a killer. It makes us freeze up when we need to DO things! Fear of what others might think if we say something we hold dear and close can silence us, and thus, in letting ourselves be silenced by our fears, evil gets to reign uncontrolled and uncountered. Only when we fear with respect, can it really be functional and work FOR us rather than against us.

Fear of starving keeps many working. But those are the ones who typically let fears rule their lives in many other ways as well. Fear of God is VERY different from that type of fear. Fear of God, properly held, is an asset, not a liability. That's a crucial difference, and one that I think most Christians know. It does, at least, provide a "wall" beyond which we fear to go, and in some situations for some folks, who have yet to fully realize the fruits of our Faith, that can be functional at some point in their development of their Faith.

Fear comes in many shades, but VERY few of those shades work FOR us. Most work against us.

[1johnlb]

I still think fear and reverance is being used wrong at least for the new Covenant believer.

I'm gonna try this again.

Where does your reverence come from?

Is your reverence from fear, as a first covenant believer should?

Or, is your reverence from love, as a new Covenant believer should?

We can't mix new and old wine. If your a new Covenant believer your reverence should come from love, not fear. So there is NO FEAR in love.

It's outlined perfectly in 1john 4 & 5

[Ickisrulz]

I still think fear and reverance is being used wrong at least for the new Covenant believer.

I'm gonna try this again.

Where does your reverence come from?

Is your reverence from fear, as a first covenant believer should?

Or, is your reverence from love, as a new Covenant believer should?

We can't mix new and old wine. If your a new Covenant believer your reverence should come from love, not fear. So there is NO FEAR in love.

It's outlined perfectly in 1john 4 & 5

I'm not trying to be obnoxious...but you really have to define love. Biblical love is a bit different than what we might have in mind. Most of the time it is a decision to act a certain way rather than an emotion (i.e., biblical "tender mercies"). Biblical love is choosing to do what is right towards God and other human beings regardless of our feelings.

The Old Covenant instructed Israel to LOVE the Lord with all their heart, soul and strength. Ideally, obedience was to be a result of love not fear. But there was punishment built into the contract as a last resort to discourage disobedience. Obedience because of fear is doing something to avoid being punished.

Jesus talked about fearing God and his judgement. Jesus preferred people obeyed his words because they loved God. But failing that, people should obey God to avoid punishment out of fear.

Of course a mature Christian will not fear God's punishment, but it is a process, right?

[Boaz]

I have hung back . I am impressed ! This has been a real bible study !!! Ideas , opinions , thoughts , scripture , . Comments have made me think ...consider .

I really enjoy seeing/hearing GOD's word discussed . Coming together to learn and honor him through seeking and sharing . If you read the whole thread it's amazing and it's not over yet . Sharing is the key ! Thank you and continue...there is more to 'fear' .

[1johnlb]

I'm not trying to be obnoxious...but you really have to define love. Biblical love is a bit different than what we might have in mind. Most of the time it is a decision to act a certain way rather than an emotion (i.e., biblical "tender mercies"). Biblical love is choosing to do what is right towards God and other human beings regardless of our feelings.

The Old Covenant instructed Israel to LOVE the Lord with all their heart, soul and strength. Ideally, obedience was to be a result of love not fear. But there was punishment built into the contact as a last resort to discourage disobedience. Obedience because of fear is doing something to avoid being punished.

Jesus talked about fearing God and his judgement. Jesus preferred people obeyed his words because they loved God. But failing that, people should obey God to avoid punishment out of fear.

Of course a mature Christian will not fear God's punishment, but it is a process, right?

I'm not trying to be obnoxious either, just trying to grow and learn and have a conversation with like minded believers. One thing that the Spirit dealt with me even from the beginning of my walk was to always stay teachable. Even though we get good teaching at church, there's just something about hashing over a topic. Even Jesus said be careful of the leaven of religion.

Love is what He done for me and because I believe I love Him back. I love Him the way He told me by keeping His commands. But He did not command me to keep the law which brought punishment, but to love. His commands come to steer me around death/problems in this life, because He promised me life and life abundantly and He loves me.

It is my belief it was never God's intent to cut the first covenant. It was man's request because of fear at the mount with Moses. Man asked for law and with law came death/punishment and fear.

His desire came to pass with Jesus, to reveal His own love for man. Of course He knew from the beginning everything that would happen.

I also don't believe Jesus ever talked about fearing God, but it was quoted not to fear man's who kills the body but to fear God who kills the soul. He never told the disciple that He would kill their soul if they didn't do what He said. I believe He was helping them in their unbelief so they would not buckle when charged by men, especially religious men, because without them many souls would be lost/distroyed.

John the Baptist preached repentance. Jesus first sermon was repent for the kingdom is at hand. His second sermon was follow me. Which He continued teaching, most notably to the rich man that wanted to know how to get into heaven. Everybody gets stuck on riches in heaven, but Jesus didn't stop there. He said and Follow Me. Why? Because He was going somewhere, God had a plan. Well God still has a plan for each of us. Growing, learning, loving is definitely a process. If we get stuck the process stops.

[Blackwater]

A great many of our problems interdenominationally, often arise from our often varying views of the words we use. English is THE #1 language with the most words in it. You'd think we could find just the right word with a narrow enough meaning that we could communicate precisely, but all too often, that's not the case. And different concepts of what a single word can mean often result in terribly unnecessary and unwarranted divisions in our ranks.

I don't much care what other Christians believe. I'll listen to any of them, in hopes of finding some new perspective or insight or something of use. I've found a LOT of insight in much Catholic writing. They OUGHT to have some great insights! They had a 1500 year head start on us protestants! Turning up our noses at what others say aids nobody, nor does it advance our Faith in any way. So why do we do it? (shaking my head) I don't know. It's sad when it happens, at least in my view. Listening to others is "studying to show thyself approved." That NEVER meant we have to all agree unanimously. And when we disagree, one is probably right and the other wrong, or both can be wrong, or both can be "right" but from different perspectives, and with different meanings understood from the same words.

Interdenominational squabbling seldom enters here. We really need to keep it that way. After all, if there's really nothing to be gained by it .... why pursue it? MHO at least.

[GhostHawk]

I like to look at the similarity's between ourselfs and a dog, and our Lord.

When the dog know's he has done wrong, and he knows it is wrong. He will run away in fear. He is in fear of being punished, scolded, having his nose rubbed in it.

I feel we do much the same when we sin. We run away from the Lord, in fear of being punished, scolded, having our nose rubbed in it.

On the plus side, when you finally calm down, sit down, relax, and talk dog into your lap. When you whisper those magic words. " I love you, its ok, dad forgives. I'm sorry I got angry"

And when he licks your face up one side, down the other, round the ears. In his own way saying "Dad I'm sorry, I know better, I was just upset about _ _ _ _ "

Nothing is as sweet, to love and be loved. And for the next week or two life is very very good.

I find it to be much the same with the Lord. Approach him with a humble heart. There is no excuse Lord, I know better, I just lost control. I'm sorry, I'll try to do better.

Well let me tell you from my experience the feelings of love, peace, being at one with the world.
It is beyond description. Beyond my poor ability's anyway.

On the other side ever pet a pup and see him shiver in delight from nose to tail.

I feel the same some days when I manage to do something that the Lord is pleased with.

Like the post I've just written.

Fear his wrath yes, but only if you have first incurred that wrath.
Walk in his will, follow his path and fear not.

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me."

That is the way I feel when I know I am doing his will, walking the path he wants me to walk.
Death has no fear, no sting. Without death, what can your enemy's do to you? What is there to fear?

[Boaz]

A great many of our problems interdenominationally, often arise from our often varying views of the words we use. English is THE #1 language with the most words in it. You'd think we could find just the right word with a narrow enough meaning that we could communicate precisely, but all too often, that's not the case. And different concepts of what a single word can mean often result in terribly unnecessary and unwarranted divisions in our ranks.

I don't much care what other Christians believe. I'll listen to any of them, in hopes of finding some new perspective or insight or something of use. I've found a LOT of insight in much Catholic writing. They OUGHT to have some great insights! They had a 1500 year head start on us protestants! Turning up our noses at what others say aids nobody, nor does it advance our Faith in any way. So why do we do it? (shaking my head) I don't know. It's sad when it happens, at least in my view. Listening to others is "studying to show thyself approved." That NEVER meant we have to all agree unanimously. And when we disagree, one is probably right and the other wrong, or both can be wrong, or both can be "right" but from different perspectives, and with different meanings understood from the same words.

Interdenominational squabbling seldom enters here. We really need to keep it that way. After all, if there's really nothing to be gained by it .... why pursue it? MHO at least.


There is no squabbling/fighting folks are just talking and expressing ideas and understanding .

[Ickisrulz]

I'm not trying to be obnoxious either, just trying to grow and learn and have a conversation with like minded believers. One thing that the Spirit dealt with me even from the beginning of my walk was to always stay teachable. Even though we get good teaching at church, there's just something about hashing over a topic. Even Jesus said be careful of the leaven of religion.

Love is what He done for me and because I believe I love Him back. I love Him the way He told me by keeping His commands. But He did not command me to keep the law which brought punishment, but to love. His commands come to steer me around death/problems in this life, because He promised me life and life abundantly and He loves me.

It is my belief it was never God's intent to cut the first covenant. It was man's request because of fear at the mount with Moses. Man asked for law and with law came death/punishment and fear.

His desire came to pass with Jesus, to reveal His own love for man. Of course He knew from the beginning everything that would happen.

I also don't believe Jesus ever talked about fearing God, but it was quoted not to fear man's who kills the body but to fear God who kills the soul. He never told the disciple that He would kill their soul if they didn't do what He said. I believe He was helping them in their unbelief so they would not buckle when charged by men, especially religious men, because without them many souls would be lost/distroyed.

John the Baptist preached repentance. Jesus first sermon was repent for the kingdom is at hand. His second sermon was follow me. Which He continued teaching, most notably to the rich man that wanted to know how to get into heaven. Everybody gets stuck on riches in heaven, but Jesus didn't stop there. He said and Follow Me. Why? Because He was going somewhere, God had a plan. Well God still has a plan for each of us. Growing, learning, loving is definitely a process. If we get stuck the process stops.

When I mentioned me being obnoxious I was referring to once again saying that we need to define and understand terms. This will always be true when the ideas being discussed hinge on one word. Anytime we discuss biblical love, hope, faith, hate, fear and probably dozens of other topics it is essential we know what we are talking about.

Jesus was not a fire and brimstone type of preacher. But he certainly dealt with the idea of the soul's destruction and repentance as the road to avoid this end. Like I said, he preferred man turn to God as a response to God's love.

The Old Covenant was necessary for a variety of reasons. The primary one was to show man that he could not please God by following rules.

The fall of man was (of course) never God's intention. It has been suggested that originally man was to live on earth in a probationary state until he had proven himself without sinning and learned what was necessary. Then he would have been taken to heaven. This is possibly what Luke 9:51 is referring to (i.e., Jesus was ready to ascend to heaven, but he went to Jerusalem and died instead). When man picked another path, God changed things. One was the introduction of the Law and the other was to sacrifice his Son. God does not destroy that which has failed until absolutely necessary and attempts have been made to save it.

[Boaz]

There was too much old testament prophecy of the coming of Jesus . GOD did not change his mind . To much evident support of his coming , work and persecution . Jesus Christ was predestined to be offered as sacrifice to pay for our sins .

[Ickisrulz]

There was too much old testament prophecy of the coming of Jesus . GOD did not change his mind . To much evident support of his coming , work and persecution . Jesus Christ was predestined to be offered as sacrifice to pay for our sins .

Who said God changed his mind?

[Boaz]

You stated ...GOD changed things....as in he changed his game plan ?

[Ickisrulz]

You stated ...GOD changed things....as in he changed his game plan ?

Do you think that when God made man he intended that man would sin? He knew, of course, but he did not make man so that man could sin. When man sinned God set about a plan to redeem him. Even though the plan was known before the earth was formed, it was not necessary until man failed. Prior to that (the fall of man) I assume there was an original plan and can only speculate what that was; and I did.

Apart from this, the Bible has many instances of God changing his mind and doing something other than what he originally intended to do. Most of this mind changing is in response to what man does.

[Boaz]

Garden of Eden ...good example ! But will stick to prophecy in the sacrifice of Jesus ...just too documented to deny . No need to quote scripture because you already know it .

[Ickisrulz]

Garden of Eden ...good example ! But will stick to prophecy in the sacrifice of Jesus ...just too documented to deny . No need to quote scripture because you already know it .

The prophecies concerning Jesus came about after the fall of man. Like I said, God knew the plan before the earth was formed. But the plan was not necessary until the 3rd chapter of Genesis where we see the first prophecy concerning a Savior.

God didn't plant the first people in the garden for the purpose of failing. His intention was that they'd succeed. The first plan entailed "don't eat the fruit." Adam and Eve did...a new plan was needed.

[Boaz]

I was trying to side step what you just said . Your getting into the hypothetical , theological . Might I ask you ...why did GOD place the tree of knowledge within the easy reach of Adam and Eve and tell them not to partake of the fruit ? Kind of like placing a plate of candy on the table and telling the children your going to take a nap . Go figure .

Our destiny is preordained , freewill is the wildcard . Such as CHOICE in accepting salvation or many options but it in respect to your individual choice . Adam and Eve made their choice .

[Ickisrulz]

I was trying to side step what you just said . Your getting into the hypothetical , theological . Might I ask you ...why did GOD place the tree of knowledge within the easy reach of Adam and Eve and tell them not to partake of the fruit ? Kind of like placing a plate of candy on the table and telling the children your going to take a nap . Go figure .

Our destiny is preordained , freewill is the wildcard . Such as CHOICE in accepting salvation or many options but it in respect to your individual choice . Adam and Eve made their choice .

God intended for man to learn about good and evil by obeying the limitations that were put on him. The first limitation was the fruit. There had to be the possibility of choosing to rebel. That is the way I see it anyway.

I do not see how God could have intended for man to fail. To allow free choice and the existence of temptations (or someone to temp which seems to be the catalyst here) does not suggest such an intent. This goes against everything revealed to us about God. He is good and wants the best for us.

I will admit that this is not overtly stated in scripture and I am working backwards. But it fits in with what I read in the Bible and a certain degree of logic.

[1johnlb]

Lckitrulz, I didn't think you were obnoxious and I realize the different types of love, but in this thread I'm speaking of agape, unconditional. Which is a loooong stretch for any man, but is possible and the type He request of us.

[Boaz]

Rabbit Trail ! LOL ...It's easy to 'get off topic' and nothing wrong with that . Be great if we could go out after discussion and have coffee and a piece of pie . Make mine pecan .

[Pine Baron]

Back on topic, Ghost pretty much nailed it for me.
And off topic. Boaz, is that peh-cahn or pee-can. I'm from Jersey.

[Boaz]

That would be ...peh-cahn . lol

[Blackwater]

I knew it! Now we've REALLY got something to get contentious about! Everybody KNOWS it's "pee-can!" :mrgreen: Folks who say pea-cahn probably hold their pinky fingers out when they drink their RC Colas, and eat their moon pies! I thought everybody knew THAT! :drinks:

[Boaz]

I'm figuring you Georgia folks don't use pee-can , most likely as us Texans !! Phonetically perfect would be ...pa cons ? Heck of a lot easier to drawl out and since WE raise em should be our prerogative to how to call em (LOL) !!!

PINE BARON !! You have caused dissention ! LOL ! How you say pecan is 'serious' stuff ! Woe is us to suffer through the 'pecan' dilemma !

[1johnlb]

There was too much old testament prophecy of the coming of Jesus . GOD did not change his mind . To much evident support of his coming , work and persecution . Jesus Christ was predestined to be offered as sacrifice to pay for our sins .

Jesus was prophecied but law wasn't. What would have happened at the mountain when God called Moses and the heads of the families together, if they hadn't feared and hide. Up until this time it was if you diligently obey My voice. Was He going to change it, we just don't know. But theology teaches other wise.

Sorry Boaz for the drift, couldn't help it[smilie=1:

[Boaz]

Two different topics , but good comment !

[Boaz]

LAW WAS LITERILY written in stone .

[1johnlb]

LAW WAS LITERILY written in stone .

Exactly what the children of Israel's heart was made of.