hornady press or dillon press?

[mozeppa]

i was told dillon is a good dependable press...in reality....you can depend on it to jam.

i have (2) dillon 650xl that i bought new.
if you are doing .380 ...9mm... .38.....30 carbine it will jam...often.

it seems that when any of those shell cases are in the shell plate they tip outward from the center, so
on the down stroke the case mouth hits the edge of the size / decap die and dings it.

on the up stroke the case due to its tipping outward from the center then hits the completed cartridge ejector spring and binds up there.

so on the upstroke case hits the dies...you have to stick your finger in there and pop it into the die
then finish the upstroke ....then on the downstroke when it binds you again have to stick your fingers in there and tip the case back towards the center to eject it.

i've narrowed it down to the machining on the shell plates....seems they design only one blank plate for all calibers...with the u shaped cut outs on the bottom large enough to get a large primer in/out of the bottom....then they cut what they need to on the edge and top to get whatever shell size they want.

on all small cases that use small primers there isn't enough of the bottom of the shell case supported
to keep it upright, and that's why they tip outwards from the center causing all the problems.

want proof ?
i attached a small block of steel to the case drop housing and ran a piece of brass tubing thru it...it points directly at the case that is about to sized/decapped...the tube has a size 66 index drill sized bore in it and a nipple on the outer end of it which is attached by 1/4" tubing to my 100 gallon air compressor.

it has a thin but powerful air stream that blows the case back into the shell holder and makes it straight up....THIS ACTUALLY WORKS QUITE WELL!

BUT IT STILL HANGS ON THE EJECTOR WIRE!..... dang!
so i put a second air jet tube at the ejector area....and it seems to help some...3 out of 10 still hang.

it seems like an awful lot of money for presses that ALMOST work but are not even 60% dependable to work.

plastic shell drop ramps.
plastic shell pushers
plastic index rings

i know that i am not the only one to have this problem and i shouldn't have to finish dillons Research and Development in order to work their press without a hang up!

so....does Hornady's finest progressive press work any better?

what about the dillon 1050?

RCBS...do they make anything as good?

[XDROB]

I have had a Hornady LnL progressive for about 5 years . I only load straight wall pistol brass. Not problems like you are describing at all. They all have their own idiosyncrasies. But i do like my Hornaday LnL .

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[M-Tecs]

I can't give you any useful fixes. I have both 650's and 1050's. I don't load for 30 carbine but I do load for the other calibers you listed. I am not having any of the issues you are.

[mozeppa]

I can't give you any useful fixes. I have both 650's and 1050's. I don't load for 30 carbine but I do load for the other calibers you listed. I am not having any of the issues you are.

how is the 1050 for reliability?

[Budzilla 19]

No issues on the 550 or all three Square Deal B's! Don't use case feeders so can't help you. Good luck in your search.

[M-Tecs]

On the 1050's I have only loaded 223, 308 , 45 Colt and 9mm. I get about 1 jam per 1,000 rounds. I do have a bunch of 38's with crimped primer pockets that will go through the 1050 but I haven't ran them yet.

[6bg6ga]

The Dillon 650 has loaded 380,9mm,10mm,40 cal, 38/357, 45acp, 44mag, and 45LC. No problems with any jams. I have a home made case feeder on it and it performs 100% of the time.

[runfiverun]

it sounds like you have an alignment issue.
I mostly use my 550's and leave the 650 set up for the 45 colt.
my problem is the primer advance I don't know why they didn't use the one the 550 uses.
but I fixed the issue by making it a manual advance which also gives my right hand something to do instead of searching for an empty case to feed.

[daniel lawecki]

Hornady LNL and load the small .22 K Hornet and others no problems here.[smilie=p:

[Kenstone]

i was told dillon is a good dependable press...in reality....you can depend on it to jam.

i have (2) dillon 650xl that i bought new.
if you are doing .380 ...9mm... .38.....30 carbine it will jam...often.


i've narrowed it down to the machining on the shell plates....seems they design only one blank plate for all calibers...with the u shaped cut outs on the bottom large enough to get a large primer in/out of the bottom....then they cut what they need to on the edge and top to get whatever shell size they want.


Looks like Dillon lists about 21 different shell plates for the XL650
http://www.dillonprecision.com/xl650-shellplate_8_50_25283.html
Not seeing how the width of the primer slot would make the case tip out.
...wrong buttons:(
just sayin'
:mrgreen:

[dverna]

No problems as you described with the 650 I had. Used it for 9mm and .45. Only sold it because I moved and downsized....and my buddy REALLY wanted it. I had two 1050's and still have one. No issues but only used them to load .38 and .45.

A call to Dillon should resolve your issue.

Don Verna

[PaulG67]

I reload 380, 9mm, 38 sp/357 mag, on my 650 and I do not have the problems you are experiencing. I also reload 45 acp, 223, 30-06, 8mm mauser, 44 mag in that press and again no problems, smoothest running press I have ever had.

If I understand correctly are you saying that the hole in the shell plate for the primer post is the cause of the cases tipping??

[sergeant69]

i had a 550 and sold it and got a LNL. in 2 months i loaded MAYBE 5 rds. of 45acp w/out a jam. was on the phone with cust. serv. constantly. mind you, i have been reloading since the 60s and did it for a living on a RL1000 from 1980 to 86. i finally gave up on the LNL and got rid of it. was happiest day of my life. got a 650 and never looked back. ran like a champ from day one. BUT they prime on the upstroke and after back surgery it hurt too much to use it. sold it and got a 1050. i load 4 diff. calibers on it. any jams/stoppages are my goofs. occassionally it will fail to feed a case onto the plate usually because its so dirty because i have loaded thousands of rds. and not cleaned the case drop tube in months and months. of all the loaders i know and from what i have read on many sites people prefer the dillons waaaaay over the LNLs. and i'm talking about the ones that have had both. you asked.

[dragon813gt]

Do you have this tool: https://www.dillonprecision.com/rl550-xl650-platform-alignment-tool_8_6_26408.html

[kayala]

Same as other people here I don't have any problems loading any of the calibers you've mentioned (minus 30 carbine, but I did load 7.62x38R on my 550, which is even taller).

[VHoward]

I don't have any jamming issues with my XL650 either. Sounds like a mis adjustment on the OP's part.

[castalott]

Just a goofy thought here...

Is your press mounted absolutely solid...rock solid?

And have you tried slowing the rate down a little?

Good luck, Dale

[jmorris]

No problems with my 650's either, do you have photos of what you are talking about, as far as the tilt?

On a tapered case like the 30 carbine and 9mm the tilt should be pretty obvious for it to crash into the die.

Oh and if you think the 650's case feed sucks, you can forget about the LNL.

[Mr Peabody]

I have to say the thing I like with the Hornady is it's openness. I can get my fat fingers into it. I've only loaded straight wall cases. It will eject the small cases without tipping and binding, too 300 rounds an hour is fast for me.

[BK7saum]

I have had a LNL for about 15 years or so. Never had any issues at all with mine. I have loaded thousands of rounds.

[stranded1980]

it seems that when any of those shell cases are in the shell plate they tip outward from the center, so
on the down stroke the case mouth hits the edge of the size / decap die and dings it.

on the up stroke the case due to its tipping outward from the center then hits the completed cartridge ejector spring and binds up there.

so on the upstroke case hits the dies...you have to stick your finger in there and pop it into the die
then finish the upstroke ....then on the downstroke when it binds you again have to stick your fingers in there and tip the case back towards the center to eject it.

Is your case insert slide and slide cam adjusted properly? It's part number 97082 in the manual. If it isn't pushing the brass all the way forward when loading onto the shell plate, the brass will hit the side of the decapping/resizing die in station 1. You can see the adjustment of the travel of the cam slide on the Dillon 650 instructional manual on page 38, figure 192. It's controlled by the camming pin (part number 13371). If you raise the camming pin, the brass will be pushed all the way into the shell plate and won't hit the die on it's way up.

Also, as mentioned earlier, it sounds like you need the platform alignment tool. I had to use this tool when I got mine to get it adjusted correctly as well; without it, my brass wasn't entering the dies correctly. Call Dillon and ask for the tool.

Once I adjusted my Dillon, it stayed adjusted correctly. Someone used to have the Dillon Instructional VHS tape from the 90's on YouTube, but it got taken down due to copyright laws. Ask Dillon if they'll send you a copy of their DVD in addition to the platform alignment tool so you can see the adjustment of the slide cam and camming pin.

[jmorris]

I have had a LNL for about 15 years or so. Never had any issues at all with mine. I have loaded thousands of rounds.


15 years is a long time to own anything without a single issue, with a case fed LNL, that would be powerball lottery winner, twice, kind of lucky.

Not to mention that would be pre EZ Ject, with no issues. Maybe 3 time powerball winner lucky.

[BK7saum]

I never said I had a case fed setup. I load cases and bullets with with my left hand in one motion and never take my right hand off
The handle. This and the 500 free bullets is why I went red instead of blue. I pick up a bullet with my index finger and thumb, then pick up a case with my index finger, thumb and middle finger. I slide the case into station one and place the bullet on top of the case as it starts to rise into station four. One fluid motion.

When saying I had no issues, maybe I should clarify that I have never need to adjust anything on my press.

I learned that the priming system requires a bit of force when seating some primers. I learned that there are certain powders the measure doesn't like. I learned that the pre-ez-jet wire did not allow a crimper in the 5th position, so I manually removed rounds from the shell plate when needed. I updated to the ez jet sub plate when it came put to better make use of the press features.

But yes, I feel that I can honestly say I have had no real issues with my press.

Did I have to figure out what works and works well? Yes, I did. But does everyone honestly believe that there is not a learming curve with any machine with moving parts? Or in this day and time of instant gratification, they just dump powder, primers, and cases in a hornady or Dillon box and ammo falls out.

I have never needed customer service of any factory fix on my machine. Do I believe that folks issues ,with there presses are real? Absolutely, I do.

But any machine in the LNL or 550/650 price point operated manually by a person has a learning curve. I think a lot of people don't want to put in the time to learn the system.



Running s&b primers or tula that are hard to seat? Get used to seating harder or change up the components. I don't expect all primers to seat equally well in all brands of brass. Therefore I figure out what works and why stuff doesn't and load accordingly.

This is just my take on the red v blue discussion. I have set up a 550 for a friend and I still like my LNL better just because I know it forwards and backwards. And it's fed on the left side like I like to reload.

Brad

[jmorris]

When saying I had no issues, maybe I should clarify that I have never need to adjust anything on my press.

Even when a press came "setup" from the factory I have always had to adjust something on them. I don't mess with them much once I have everything where I want/need them though.

Ever have ejection problems with it?

[OS OK]

Could it be distortion in the cases that have been reloaded many times, perhaps these problem cases are not flat on the base anymore?

Another thought is that you might be using an older size die that was not tapered at the opening like they do now for the progressive presses.

[castalott]

I watched videos of guys running the handle (Dillon) at about 1 stroke every second or 2... it worked for them but not for me... They wanted rounds in the box...

Being old and slow...I wanted the best rounds I could do.. And that required me to be careful...

An LNL will never run fast.. You can still load a lot...but fast handle movements just break/wear/mis-align things ... gentle handle movements are required, at least for me...

When the ejector nub wore I thought of welding it up or drilling the edge and adding a hard pin...But I found a stranger in the Military who couldn't afford one but desperately wanted one. He paid the shipping and now it's his. Yes, he knew of my troubles but said he liked to tinker...

If I live long enough, I'll probably try a 650 or maybe a 1050... Those are really hard to justify though... But what is life but experiences? You have one shot to experience what interests you...

Dale

[Lloyd Smale]

sounds to me like your shell holder isn't down quite tight enough. I get those when my 550 has either the shell plate not down or I get lazy and my powder dispenser is only hand tight on the powder die. My buddy has 3 650s and ive loaded a lot on all three and have never seen that problem. When I load on his 650s its just another day I kick myself in the but for buying my lnl's.

[AlaskaScott]

I had the same problems as the OP on my 650 though not as severe when I first got it. Three things fixed it. First adjust the shell plate advancement on the left side under the shell plate tower. Next I tweaked the shape of the ejection spring a bit. Lastly I bought the needle bearing to go under the shell plate center bolt so I could hold a tighter tension on the shell plate while still getting smooth advancement.

[Plate plinker]

how is the 1050 for reliability?

It is awesome.

[jmorris]

I get those when my 550 has either the shell plate not down..,

The 550 is different than most others, the case sits below the shell plate on the 550, on most others the case sits in the shell plate.

[Phlier]

how is the 1050 for reliability?

Once you get it tuned, it's fantastic. Honestly, I *hated* my 1050 (my son and I call it the "ten fiddly") for the first couple of months. It was like owning a race car... you work on it six days of the week to go like heck on Sunday. It was constantly needing adjustment.

But now, I love the thing. I can sit down at it and load all day long, just feeding it primers, powder, and cases. I'll get an upside down case fed about every 3 or 4 thousand rounds, but that's about it. Once you have it well tuned, it just goes and goes.

I do load very large quantities of ammo. After every 5,000 rounds, I take the thing apart, clean it thoroughly, grease where needed, and apply straight 30 weight non detergent motor oil on the main shaft. I also replace the blue tip on the end of the primer magazine after every 10,000 rounds. I don't wait to start having primer problems, I just replace it before problems start. It's a cheap consumable, and easily replaced.

I can't say that it's a better or worse machine than the Hornady LnL Ammo Plant, as I have zero experience with one. But I can tell you that after you've gotten to know your 1050 well, it'll produce tons of high quality ammo.

[EddieNFL]

it seems that when any of those shell cases are in the shell plate they tip outward from the center, so
on the down stroke the case mouth hits the edge of the size / decap die and dings it.

Had the same issue with mine after 14-15 years, 20K-25k annually. Called Dillon and they said the platform was bent (probably cased by crushing a case (i.e. going to fast)). Sent me a new one with the tool mentioned above. That was about 10 years ago. So far so good.

I have learned casefeed adjustment is more critical with smaller case heads.

[mozeppa]

okay i waited for some answers before i got back...apparently it is my usual luck.
i swear i can throw $10,000 at ANY project and noty end up with anything that work correctly.

to answer everybody in order...

no...i'm using the correct buttons

paulG....i'm saying that the underside of all plates is cut the same size ...when they machine a 45 colt there is a deeper cut into the edge and top to facilitate a 45 colt ...there is less cut into the edge and top for a .380...so there is more gap on the underside for the .380 than there is for the 45colt...that being said , the weight of the brass causes the tip to the outside from the center....it tips to the outside because there is nothing out there to support the brass.

you can't rely on the the extractor groove on the brass to hold it upright....don't believe me?
get the .380 shell plate and a few pieces of .380 brass put one into the shell plate and you will see how much wiggle there is from the center axis to the outside from the center axis.

on my presses you can SEE it when you index it.


dragon....yes i have the alignment tool ...and it is aligned.

castalot ... my presses are as solid as can be made ....solid 3"x3" x1/4" steel tubing with 6"x6"x1/2" steel mounting plates mounted to a rack that is mounted to the wall ...all in all my "strong mount " weighs about 500 pounds.

vhoward.....no .....nothing missed by the op.

stranded1980....all the slider parts are adjusted correctly.

osok ...nope ...brass is new starline...and the dies are dillons best set of carbides.

Lloyd... nope tight as it should be.

so ....i'm stumped!

[No Blue]

OP, it's you. Eventually you'll stumble on to what you did. No way is Dillion going to machine plates wrong and only you get them out of thousands of customers. I'm no blue fan, overpriced for what you get, but they can machine a part over and over and get the dimensions right. And that doesn't include having a slope on the plate.

You have 2 presses and multiple plates, so you should be able to swap parts around and see if your 'problem' moves with certain combinations.

Do you know how to put a right angle object next to something and determine if it's leaning? Do that. See how much lean you've got.

[Mytmousemalibu]

My 650 has been a blessing at my reloading bench! Is it 100% perfect all the time... No.... Show me a press that is and good luck finding one because there is no such thing. It's a machine and things do wear and need attention from time to time. Very, very rarely have I encountered an ejection issue on mine, that is pretty dang reliable. I have had brass crash into the sizing die on occasion but it's not a real fault on the machine. It's the brass is tighter fitting into the shellplate than most or the shellplate slot or the brass is dirty, usually its some **** built up in the slot on the shellplate. I'm not ramming the handle around so retracting slightly and pushing the offending case back in fully does the trick. I maintain mine pretty well, it gets fully cleaned and serviced every 5000rds. All of my brass is first deprimed and wet tumbled before it gets to the press so it stays tidy. I do mist a light spritz of Dillon case lube on all my brass in a big ziploc bag, and give it a shake. It makes the machine run smoother with less effort. A little case lube buildup is the only grunge mine sees. I have a Press Monitor on mine and with swift but smooth motion, I have seen it read 1200 rounds per hour! And that's hand feeding the bullets, I only have a case feeder! I'd say it's a damn fine running piece of equipment! Show me another press aside from a 1050 or commercial machines that can keep up with that.

[jmorris]

...apparently it is my usual luck. i swear i can throw $10,000 at ANY project and noty end up with anything that work correctly.

That is a big step in understanding the problem. Everyone is going to have problems with every press, if they say they never have, that means two things. They either don't use it or are not honest. So if we go into reloading knowing we are going to have to be problem solvers from the start that helps.


That being said , the weight of the brass causes the tip to the outside from the center....it tips to the outside because there is nothing out there to support the brass.

you can't rely on the the extractor groove on the brass to hold it upright....don't believe me?

The extractor groove is not ment to hold the case up right, it is only there to pull the case back out of the die it is shoved into.

The cut in the shell plate doesn't have anything to do with whatever problem you are having, every shell plate and shell holder I own has either a cut out or a relief machined into it. The only two exceptions being the 550 and Forster co-ax where the base of the case does not sit on a shell plate.

As far as that being the cause of any tipping, I don't believe you, unless you have your press mounted on a surface that is angled enough where the laws of gravity are skewed. Take a flat surface and push the case towards the edge, note how much can be hanging over before it tips off the edge. Should be pretty close to half of it, and the cut out is much less.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170109_070221_908-1_zpszgfmpqwe.jpg

Since you couldn't post photos of your problem shell plates, I'll post a photo of one of mine with a 357 maximum case and a square. It's also worth noting that even if it did not sit perfectly square in the shell plate, there is a "lead in" on all Dillon dies to guide them in as well.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170109_070110_362-1_zpsu206kx6q.jpg

[Garyshome]

Your adjustments are a bit off. Call Dillon they will help.

[OS OK]

This is getting very interesting. morris I think you are going to troubleshoot this guys press even if you have to tear yours apart to do it!

Good job!

[XDROB]

I do like my Hornaday LnL. I do not have any experience with any other Progressive press. I started reloading a week after Sandy Hook in Connecticut. When I got to Cabela in Hartford CT. I found out that most or all of the reloading equipment had been just devoured. The only thing left was a Hornady Lock and Load which I bought. I bought the supporting equipment a scale electronic scale. I added their powder cop and bullet feeder and case feeder. I talked to a lot of the Reloaders in my club and used their suggestions about reading every manual that I could find before I started. At this time I've been doing it for 5 or so years about after the second year I realized I probably should have started with a single press instead of a progressive.. but that was all that was left on the shelf. The reloading area of Cabelas looked like a bread and milk aisle after or before a hurricane. I have had to call their support system mostly due to mistakes that I have made on my own, their service people are superb. I moved forward slowly learning how to do each process as the best way as possible. Without trying to jinx myself at this point I have never had a squib or an overcharged load.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[sergeant69]

i think morris could trouble shoot the space station. his vids have to be seen to be believed.

[OS OK]

I do like my Hornaday LnL. I do not have any experience with any other Progressive press. I started reloading a week after Sandy Hook in Connecticut. When I got to Cabela in Hartford CT. I found out that most or all of the reloading equipment had been just devoured. The only thing left was a Hornady Lock and Load which I bought. I bought the supporting equipment a scale electronic scale. I added their powder cop and bullet feeder and case feeder. I talked to a lot of the Reloaders in my club and used their suggestions about reading every manual that I could find before I started. At this time I've been doing it for 5 or so years about after the second year I realized I probably should have started with a single press instead of a progressive.. but that was all that was left on the shelf. The reloading area of Cabelas looked like a bread and milk aisle after or before a hurricane. I have had to call their support system mostly due to mistakes that I have made on my own, their service people are superb. I moved forward slowly learning how to do each process as the best way as possible. Without trying to jinx myself at this point I have never had a squib or an overcharged load.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I hope you are knocking on wood as you state this and leave yourself open for a serious attack by ole Murphy...I'd never have said that, less I was looking for trouble!
You know you fellas that don't have any information about yourself posted...not even state, well, I think you are doing yourself a disservice. Hand loaders are just waiting to meet someone local to help or give help. We are a small community.

[Mike Kerr]

Please call Dillon for help. The issues you report are so typical of a press which is not level, a base plate or shell plate which is improperly set up, an alignment related problem usually cured by the alignment tool or similar problems that the issues need to be addressed by Dillon. They will most probably give you answers or solutions already stated by others in this thread but your replies indicate that you don't agree so what else is there?

[mozeppa]

gonna take the whole darn thing apart and detail clean it....maybe that'll help.

got to thinking ....i've only cycled it 250,000 times in the last 2 years.

[shell70634]

I had the same problems with my Dillon 650 with a case feeder attached. I tore the machine completely down, cleaned everything, and used the instruction manual to put it back together. Not a problem since. IIRC I had some pieces out of adjustment and part of the casefeeder in backwards. And it was dirty.

[LittleLebowski]

gonna take the whole darn thing apart and detail clean it....maybe that'll help.

got to thinking ....i've only cycled it 250,000 times in the last 2 years.

I do not understand why you won't call Dillon. They will help, they want to help.

Pick up the phone and call 800-223-4570.

[TexasGrunt]

OP, it's you. Eventually you'll stumble on to what you did. No way is Dillion going to machine plates wrong and only you get them out of thousands of customers. I'm no blue fan, overpriced for what you get, but they can machine a part over and over and get the dimensions right. And that doesn't include having a slope on the plate.

You have 2 presses and multiple plates, so you should be able to swap parts around and see if your 'problem' moves with certain combinations.

Do you know how to put a right angle object next to something and determine if it's leaning? Do that. See how much lean you've got.

A Dillon 650 with case feeder runs just about the same amount of money as a Hornady LnL AP with a case feeder. The only real advantage the Hornady has is a better powder measure.

I have both presses and run both presses. Both have their quirks and their strengths.

[jmorris]

gonna take the whole darn thing apart and detail clean it....maybe that'll help.

got to thinking ....i've only cycled it 250,000 times in the last 2 years.

Averaging over 2400 rounds a week for 104 weeks in a row and the thing needs to be cleaned? I understand why you don't like it now.

[M-Tecs]

gonna take the whole darn thing apart and detail clean it....maybe that'll help.

got to thinking ....i've only cycled it 250,000 times in the last 2 years.

Did it ever work properly or are the issues new? Dillon has a lifetime warranty and will rebuild it for free.

[mozeppa]

let it go guys...yes it got dirty ....yes i called dillon.

sorry i asked ...wish i could lock it.

[jmorris]

let it go guys...yes it got dirty ....yes i called dillon.

sorry i asked ...wish i could lock it.

We all get frustrated and want to vent from time to time, don't let it get to you.

I am curious as to what was causing the problem you were having though. Did you have little bits of tumbling media get shoved into the groove of the shell plate that was causing the tipping?

[mozeppa]

no ... i think it's worse than that....maybe a bent platform.

a new one will be here in a few days.

[castalott]

Hi Mozeppa! I feel your pain.... I have a 550 that just stopped feeding primers...replaced all the replaceables a couple of times... Finally redone it one more time...works perfect! go figure....

Things I learned from this....

I don't change from large to small primers....I have 2 presses with one of each primer size... why ,yes, they both work perfect now and I refuse take them apart until necessary... this and PC boolets takes a lot of dirt away from the press...

I deprime and ss pin clean the brass before it gets to the press. It is extra time but I like it...

Don't let the kidding get to you....I know how a wrong word can make a situation worse and maybe take the fun out of a hobby...

Rereading it, I see there isn't much to learn from this post except a quote from mom...

" Tomorrow is another day....it will look better tomorrow..."

Dale

[Phlier]

Mozeppa, glad you got it worked out.

I recently bent the #5 shell plate on my 1050 (don't ask ;) ). Sure wish us 1050 owners got free replacement parts! Speaking of replacement parts, there are aftermarket parts makers for Dillon presses that are definitely worth looking into. They ain't free, of course, but often times they are high enough quality to pry open the wallet. In my case, I wanted to get Fast N Freindly Brass's heavy duty shell plate, but the darn things are always back ordered.