.40-90 Sharps Straight

[.22-10-45]

Anyone have experience with this ctg.? Too much of a good thing? Would this have merit as a long-range target ctg.? Thanks!

[country gent]

Is brass available, Could it be formed from 45-90 like 40-65 from 45-70? Or does it need to be formed from 405 basic brass? It may have merit as a true long range cartridge and would work as a shilouette round with a little more recoil than some others that also work extremely well. Im curious about it now. I have a 45-90 Thats accurate and consistant, but recoil takes its toll over a day long match. Im currently using a 550 grn bullet from Old West Moulds in it. even with 500 grn bullets recoil is heavier.

[Don McDowell]

Have shot one a very little bit. Brass is a bugger to get and danged expensive when you can get it. If I were looking to a 40 for long range, I'ld think more along the lines of a 40-82 or a 40-90 bn.

[.22-10-45]

I have original WRA paper-patched ctg. bullet slip fit in case mikes .403" over patch. card wad under bullet. Interestingly, patched slug weighs 370grs...same as the .40-70 2 1/2" (.40-70 straight)

[sharps4590]

A friend has an original 1885 so chambered and as Jim had never messed with BPC's he brought it over and we worked up a couple loads for it. I didn't record what the good load was as it wasn't my rifle, gave the data to Jim. It did shoot quite good given the rudimentary sights, which surprised me a little. He had some god-awful bullets he'd cast so I used my Lyman, 410 gr. bullet and it worked quite well. 22, I'm pretty certain his mold was just as you described yours, it was original to the rifle....but he didn't know how to use it!! As others have mentioned he had some difficulty getting brass as the original chamber is not the same as the one they cut now, at least it wasn't in his rifle.

The 45-90 is too short to make 40-90 brass. The head and rim are also a lot bigger. The 405 is also too short. I thought maybe the 9.3 X 74R but it's too short and too small of rim also.

[GARD72977]

I bought a 1875 C. sharps chambered in 40-90 Straight. I knew nothing about rifle twist. This was 20 something years ago. This was an Express gun. It would not shoot anything but pistol weight bullets. The only useful information I can give you is that Bertram 405 basic brass will not chamber. The rim is too thick. I had to have it turned down and the primer pocket recut.

I'm not sure if the current chamber is the same.

[Multigunner]

IIRC the .40-80 Bottleneck held the record for smallest 1,000 yard group till it was finally broken by a .25-06 in the 1960's.

[Bent Ramrod]

I have a Remington Hepburn in .40-90 Sharps Straight. Haven't gotten better than hunting accuracy with it so far, and have done better with grease groove boolits than paper patched, even though it looks like it is a paper patch chamber. The bore is slightly frosty, but there is no reason that it shouldn't shoot well.

The only cases available are Bertram, and they are cavernous. Even with less dense black powders like Goex, you can easily get 100 grains into the shell with plenty of room for other stuff. Good loads seem to hover around the 90-grain weight, but a "good" load one weekend will shoot badly the next weekend. Smokeless loadings with SR-4759 can sometimes beat out the black powder loads, but need a Kapok tuft to hold the powder in the back and do best with Magnum primers.

There is also a problem in that there is the original chambering, and a later one called the .40-90 Shiloh Sharps Straight, which uses .405 Basic brass. The two are not interchangeable, so find out which one you have before buying shells and dies.

I think a couple people on the Shiloh site have mastered the .40-90, but most go for the bottleneck cartridge, as it was original to the Sharps. A guy I shoot with at the Quigley does well with the .40-90 Straight, but I have not attained his level of expertise. There's a book available on loading all the 3-1/4" cartridges, but the author only "guarantees" hunting accuracy. If you like a challenge, I guess the .40-90 Sharps Straight is for you. But there are certainly easier cartridges to get 2 MOA accuracy with, if that's what you are really after.

[carl lafong]

Bent Ramrod...... I wonder if you could expound on the "easier cartridges to get the 2MOA accuracy with.." I am a newby to BP cartridge reloading and am in the 1st stages of choosing a C.Sharps... but what caliber.....the 45-70 seems it would be hard on the shoulder. the 38-55 is not an original sharps caliber, but would have a light recoil.... I'd really like an original cartridge Sharps caliber, that would have been around in 1869 or before, that would be light on the recoil..I've been researching for the past 3 weeks, pouring over the forums.... brings me up to 40-70 straight wall case, am I in the ballpark with this choice ?I will be using the rifle for hunting...carl lafong

[indian joe]

Have shot one a very little bit. Brass is a bugger to get and danged expensive when you can get it. If I were looking to a 40 for long range, I'ld think more along the lines of a 40-82 or a 40-90 bn.

Don --- how does recoil compare for the 40/82 vs 45/70 ? similar or no?

[Don McDowell]

Joe I don’t have any real experience with the 40-82 but I can’t imagine the recoil would be any less than a 45-70
The easiest shooting large cartridge of the original Sharps is the 44-77

The 40-50 st or bn would be the softest recoil of the original cartidges


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[MOA]

I think you'll find the 40-70 SS a definite challenge.

[Bent Ramrod]

cl,

From what I’ve observed, the big three for relatively easy target accuracy loading are the .38-50 Remington, the .40-65 Winchester, and the .45-70 Government. The .44-77 shoots as well, but at least for me, it seems to be a little more finicky in what powder it likes than the straight cases.

Generally, the longer a straight case gets, the more finicky it seems to get in its loading preferences. I never saw a really spectacular target shot with any 3-1/4” case, although there is the occasional mention that somebody got one of them to “shoot well,” whatever that means.

The Government spent a lot of money optimizing a cartridge for the Army that would perform well and consistently no matter what contractor or arsenal was doing the loading and manufacture, and the .45-70 was the result. That’s a big advantage for someone starting out in black powder cartridge shooting.

I’ve seen a fair number of complaints about inconsistent performance in the .40-70 Straight, but none that I recall on the .40-65. The weight of most target weight BPCRs is enough so that recoil in the .45-70 isn’t too violent, and most people I see shooting BPCRs wear recoil pads like the PAST, anyway.

I seldom see or hear of the more obscure Sharps cartridges, but they are written up in the SPG Loading Manual, which is highly recommended reading.

[Don McDowell]

The 40-70 is a cranky thing, but once you get one tuned up and purring, just don't change anything, or you get to do all the messing around with it all over again.....

[Randy Bohannon]

Amen Don.

[sharps4590]

I think you'll find the 40-70 SS a definite challenge.

Really? I guess I got lucky or, had worked with enough BPC's that by the time I got mine I knew what I was doing. Honestly, my first load out of the gate will cloverleaf at 100 yards and has shot MOA out to 600.

I have a friend with an original Ballard Pacific #5 in 40-70 and I know he's struggled with it. My Shiloh was a joy to work with.

[indian joe]

Don --- how does recoil compare for the 40/82 vs 45/70 ? similar or no?

yeah thanks Don - talked to a mate yesterday has one and he reckoned more not less - have another mate has the reamer almost new is the problem - I should not think about this at all 40-65 should be the deal.

What about lighter boolits in a 45/70 ? only shooting 500 to 600 yards. have a 460 grain mold. we been off range for most of the last two years with this cv BS am getting rusty on everything!

[Don McDowell]

Joe might take a look at something in the 480 grain. My wife when she was actively shooting put that Saeco 645 to some awfully good use in her Winchester BPCR.
Your 460 gr bullet may work quite well. There's only one way to really know for sure.
Nice thing about having my own range bs shutdowns don't bother much here. :) A herd of deer laying around the 1000 yard target or an antelope buck jousting with the turkey swinger do present a problem tho. LOL