Newer Winchester 1886's

[Old-Win]

I'm going to look at a newer 1886 Win with a pistol grip next week and I have some questions. It has a tang sight mounted so I assume the safety has been removed. I have read the thread on adding the Browning trigger and hammer but that was done on a straight grip stock. So:
-Will the Browning fix work on an 1886 with a pistol grip?
-What is the twist rate of the barrel as I'd like to shoot the rifle to 600 yds?
-Has anybody tried this style bullet in theirs? http://www.buffaloarms.com/Bullet_Molds_it-923531.aspx?CAT=4157
I know it won't feed thru the mag but that won't be a problem as I'll load one at a time.
-Do any of you have the MVA 130 tang sight http://montanavintagearms.com/product/sights/130-vernier-tang-sight/ on their rifle and can you tell me how much elevation you have left from your 100 or 200 yd settings?
-It's been reported that the rifle doesn't have much of a throat. What does that mean exactly? Does a cast lead bullet similar to a flat nosed 405 grainer work OK? Thanks in advance.

[NSB]

The stock has nothing to do with the internal parts. You can put a tang sight on it even with a safety. It has no throat. A bullet with a blunt ogive won't chamber. That's an easy fix with a reamer. Even the Hornady 350g jacketed bullets won't chamber. Turnbull adds almost a quarter inch throat to these guns when they rework them. Winchester/Miroku makes the chamber/throat to SAAMI specs. If you look them up, there is no throat to speak of per the specs. After that they will chamber anything and accuracy isn't effected in any way. They are not a 600 yard gun unless you shoot at big targets. However, they will still shoot five shots under an 1.75" using a red dot sight. If you want to get in to long range shooting with a 45-70, get a High Wall. They will shoot sub 1moa but still have the throat issue. You can remove the safety and fill in the hole and use Browning parts in the trigger. Great guns, but they need a bit of tweaking.

184512

[Old-Win]

NSB, so there is no difference in the geometry of the pistol grip parts vs the straight grip parts? The reason I asked, is that Browning never made the 86' in a pistol grip that I'm aware of. If you mean gong sized targets are big targets, then the 86' can do very well. The Quigley was won last year by a person shooting an 86'. I believe his score was 44 out of 48 although I think he may have had his rebarreled. If you put an aperture sight with a good tang sight on them, they are real shooters. If you use the rinky dink current Lyman or Marbles sights, then you are correct.
I shoot both gong and BPTR so I didn't just fall off the turnip truck last night. Just trying to find out what can be done.

[NSB]

If you have to ask, you might not know as much as you think. I'm guessing I know a bit more than you do. Good luck. No more advice from me.
Google Browning/Miroku....they made a pistol grip 1886. Lots of them.

[.45Cole]

Technically Browning made a '71 and I don't think they came in straight stocks. I think you could call up the sight manufacture and tell them your BC and velocity and they can tell you how much elevation they have left at the ranges (probably a simple physics/trig problem). You might be concerned with barrel length and weight. If you single load the boolits and it's set up for long range (not fun to carry) you're pretty much at an 1885. Like Browning 1885 BPCR!

[MT Chambers]

405 gr. FP bullet prolly won't make you happy at 600 yds or more.

[Old-Win]

At our club, we shoot gong matches to 600yds and a lever gun side match to 300 yds but lately, a few have been shooting the entire match with lever guns and doing fairly well. In fact, I shoot a 71 Browning to 300 yds and it is very accurate but the .348 is not really a period caliber. I have been mulling the Miroku Winchesters for a couple of years and looking at the pictures posted here for slipping in the 86' Browning parts to improve the ignition problems. I have had my 71' Browning apart and the hammer spring attachment is much different than on the 86'. That's why I'm hoping to get some advice from somebody that may have done this with the still longer tang of the 86' Win. I don't plan on using the 405 grain bullet but was using it as a reference for what the leade in the rifle may be. I was looking at the BACO mold which is a more streamlined bullet or using the Lyman 457121 which weighs about 490 grains but has the same ogive as the common 405 gr.

[Bird]

2001 year miroku/winchester pistol grip with tang safety. I initially had a few failure to fires with the rifle, as did many people. After the first 50 to 60 rounds or so, I had no more problems. I did nothing to the rifle, and it has not missed a beat since.
I have put Hornady 300grain hp's, remington 300 hp's, RCBS 300 cast, 405 remington's, 405 Bear Creek Bullets, 405 Western Bullet Co., 360grain Bear creek through it with no problems with chambering. It also took 500 grain Western Bullet's, but the rifle did not like them. No problem chambering them, but bullets hit sideways on the target. I think for the heavier bullet a faster twist was needed. The 22'' twist is not enough.
How well does that 348 shoot? What load and bullet for it?

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Have shot the Winchester 86 (Miroku) pistol grip 26" octagon barrel a couple years. Bought it 15 years ago.
First.. Before spending bucks on Browning parts do some simple work on your Miroku parts. There is a fine tutorial here at CB about field stripping the 86 "m". That is not hard once you understand how easy it is with the "rubber band" helper.

But that rebounding hammer strut needs dealt with. My 86 pistol grip always "seemed" to have the light hammer strike syndrome from day one. Always fired but that strut was absorbing a good % of the hammer blow. Cleaned the firing pin and channel.

Well one day it finally happened. A click and no boom. Primer looked about the same as the previous fired cartridges.. Re-chambered and fired fine. No more issues. Next time out did it again. Firing pin was not gummed up. Even gave it a little drop of fine oil. Did not fire two more times that morning. Always fired the same round the second strike. So when back home the rebound strut was removed. (No regrets) Now the hammer blow is very similar to my 1922 Win 1886. Never misfired again with any primer.

Short throat... My has been addressed. Our home range in East ILL. only has 300 yards. A 430 grainer took care of my needs hitting a 12" gong off cross sticks. I never had any desire to use the 86 for precision shooting. My Rollers are for that.
My 86's throat issue got reamed to accept 525 grainers of all sorts but not in the conventional way. It was sent to JES Reboring and is now a 50 Alaskan. No regrets ! Always wanted a caliber 50 86 Winchester. But 50-110 brass, dies just seemed a bit "out of budget". Well the 50 Alaskan cured that. Starline Brass and dies are abundant. The 86 "M" requires a bit of more work to get to functionality but what else you going to do at 3 am.
Mike in Peru

[Lloyd Smale]

rcbs 405rfgc shot real well in the one I had

[Old-Win]

Thanks for the help, guys.
Bird, I shoot a 200 gr fpgc bullet from Red River bullets. The bullet looks very close to the RCBS but not the same. I don't know what mold they use. I use a pretty light load of 33 grs of 3031 and that load shoots about 2 1/2" at 100 yds.

[wrench man]

Unless you have to have a Winchester?, you might have a look at the Pedersoli 1886/71, it doesn't have any of the issues described above?, as for the chamber?, the only boolit I've ever loaded for mine is the Oregon Trail 350grn, haven't shot them at any real distance?, but it kills pop cans and clay bird without fail!

[Bad Ass Wallace]

My Pedersoli 71 will feed the Lyman 520gn boolit through the magzine with room to spare.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Ped%201886%20E_zpsp69kmkzk.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Ped%201886%20E_zpsp69kmkzk.jpg.html)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Ped%201886%20A_zpsfcdxmiwk.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Ped%201886%20A_zpsfcdxmiwk.jpg.html)