Cleaning patented breech/Ante chamber

[54bore]

This is something i Recently learned and feel it to be VERY important and VERY overlooked! When Idahoron was here on his Whitetail hunt he explained to me that TC Sidelocks have whats called a Patented breech, for folks that dont know what this is, what i am talking about, ever notice when you pull your bore brush out that your brush is pinched down in the front end? You can't help but feel it when you bottom your bore brush out against the breech, the tip of your bore brush is actually going down in the Patented breech/Ante chamber a bit. When cleaning your barrel, your patched jag stops at the breech face/breech shoulders and does nothing to the PB/AC, This chamber is different (a lot bigger) in barrels such as Green Mountain, but its stil there. My point is this area seldom if ever gets cleaned, or cleaned properly.
I will not go into detail on my cleaning process as each has his own way/method, i will say that i clean my barrels DOWN TO BARE STEEL, I shoot Paper Patched and sized bullets in my Rifles therefore i don't use Lube, my barrels are easy to clean after a shooting session thanks to PP Bullets. When i get my barrels clean and thoroughly DRY i use a good quality gun oil internally and externally, i use a generous amount down the bore, and swab an oily patch back n forth a few times before i store my gun, i want to know the bore is coated and protected well! I always store my rifles barrel up against my wall, etc. Before i shoot i run several dry patches down my barrel to dry this oil out, after 3-4 dry patches i leave the last one seated against the Breech face/shoulders, and i pop 2 Caps, then check the patch for a brownish burn color to make sure i am getting good spark. I then proceed to load my gun.
My Stainless GM LRH .50 Cal would hangfire on the first shot out almost everytime, they were slight hangfires, (split half second type hangtime) Regardless they were HANGFIRES and would likely have costed me an animal in a hunting situation. This DROVE ME NUTS!! After the first shot, the rifle would NEVER do it again.
After learning about the Patented breech/Ante Chamber i got to thinking, i use a generous amount of oil down my barrel, i also use a piece of paper towel between my hammer and nipple to absorb any excess oil that drips out the nipple, i store my rifle barrel up/butt down. There is stil area in this Patented Breech/Ante chamber to collect excess oil, gunk, goo, rust, etc. I have ZERO DOUBT this was my hangfire problem.
To clean this you need a .30-37 Cal brush, i used a 37 and it worked great in my GM barrel, With a TC barrel you would be better off with a .30 Cal brush since the chamber is MUCH smaller. You can also use a Patented breech fouling scraper, i have one that TC makes it is slightly rounded to fit there Patented Breech, you could also use a 32 Cal fouling scraper, For a TC you will need a smaller diameter cleaning rod or the shoulders of the rod will likely hang up on the breech face/shoulders and not slip in to the Patented breech/Ante Chamber, if this has never been cleaned i HIGHLY advise the fouling scraper to cut through the gunk, rust, etc. then use the .30-37 Cal bore brush, and finally wrap a patch tightly around the bore brush leaving a 1/4 to 1/2 inch excess patch in front, push that in and you will feel it enter the Patented Breech/Ante Chamber, twist it, push pull, change patches etc. to get it clean and dry.
Now to those that say i use to much oil, YES I DO, and i will continue, it protects my bore, i would rather use a bit to much oil than not enough and have my bore rust. I dont pour oil down my barrel, but i use a generous amount, i use the New pump spray Rem oil, made from the original Rem oil, i feel it to be superior to the regular stuff, i use 3-4 pushes of the pump sprayer directly in the bore, then wet a patch with a little shot of it, and swab back n forth a few times, i put a piece of paper towel between the hammer and nipple and im done. My barrels are literally like mirrors inside, so i will continue my process! I will start storing my guns barrel down from now on.
Now when i Swab the oil out of my barrel before i shoot i will also be wrapping a patch or 2 around my small bore brush and drying out the Patented Breech/Ante chamber REALLY good as well, THEN pop my 2 Caps off against a dry clean patch on my Cal specific Jag and check for burn. Load up and go!
Idahoron has some good pictures of what the Patented breech looks like, and a video or 2 of his GM barrels, I hope he will share those here.
Forum member rfd is an ABSOLUTE wealth of knowledge in this area!! I hope he will join in with some photos as well, rfd had some pics on a recent thread here. With rfd having the correct tools to pull Breech plugs (which he does often) he has more knowledge than anyone i know in this area, he helped me out a bunch and is a super nice guy, thank you again rfd!
No one is telling ANYONE they need/or should be pulling their breech plugs. You can clean and maintain these Patented breeches/Anti chambers just as you normally clean your barrel, ABSOLUTELY no need to pull your breech plug! rfd has the proper tools for doing so WITHOUT damaging the plug, barrel, or both. If you are dumb enough to head out to your vise with your barrel and a Crescent Wrench you were warned

[rancher1913]

would love to see the photos or video. thanks for posting this, I never knew about it either.

[Omnivore]

I've always seen it expressed as "patent" breech rather than "patented", but the point is a good one. Some of the owners' manuals don't address it. I use a 35 caliber jag for the Lyman/Investarms 50 cal.

Any percussion rifle having a breech snail (as opposed to a powder drum threaded into the side of the barrel) for certain has a patent breech (there's no other way to do it).

I believe that even some powder drum type percussion guns, and even some flintlocks are being made with a breech chamber. (Correct me if I'm wrong) In those cases it's a way to get more thread depth into the barrel, and still use the old architecture (breech plugs tended to thread only a very short distance into the barrel back in the 1700s). Otherwise, to get more plug thread depth, the flash hole or the powder drum would have to sit farther forward (in front of the front of the breech plug) and that would change the position of the lock and most everything else.

I think that a good "slush pumping" with hot water will clean out the breech chamber pretty well, but I always get down in there with a 35 cal jag and swab it out anyway (you'll have to figure out the size of your breech chamber ). In any case, the gun owner definitely should be aware that the smaller chamber in the breech exists.

[54bore]

I think that a good "slush pumping" with hot water will clean out the breech chamber pretty well, but I always get down in there with a 35 cal jag and swab it out anyway (you'll have to figure out the size of your breech chamber ). In any case, the gun owner definitely should be aware that the smaller chamber in the breech exists.

I fully agree Omnivore! Once you know the breech chamber is clean a good 'Slush pumping' after a shooting session should get most of the gunk, but its stil a darn good idea to get in there and clean it with a brush that fits it, and then dry it out good of any water with a few dry patches wrapped around the brush. There's no doubt there are a TON of old muzzleloaders out there that are REALLY NASTY in this area! On a used barrel that you know nothing about, i would spend whatever time it took to get the chamber as clean as possible.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

In 9 years, Never once has my traditions flintlock needed the brush down there into the breech. Hot soapy water does the job. Also with a shot of gun scrubber to dry that area free of any water/moisture after cleaning.

[n.h.schmidt]

Good advice about the patent breach if you have them. I have had the breaches off of two TC barrels. One a Hawken in 45 and one other in 50. Both had a shallow depression or radius on the breach face. Nothing to speak of. I have had the breaches off of two Italy made rifles.Great plains rifles. Now they had a patent sub chamber ..350" dia and .50" deep. I clean them with a cleaning rod with a loop tip. I pull a strip of beadsheet through the loop partway and over the the loop tip and down the barrel we go. Once on the bottom give the rod some turns and out we go. Repeat as needed.
n.h.schmidt

[bob208]

for 40 years of muzzle loader shooting all I ever did was pump the breach with hot water then dry with wd-40. breaches are always clean and never any rust or miss fires.

[54bore]

184529

Here is what they look like

[idahoron]

would love to see the photos or video. thanks for posting this, I never knew about it either.

I had a friend tell me that he had a bullet loaded in the barrel for over 20 years. He wanted me to take it out. So I agreed.
I didn't know that the bullet was so I took a picture.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Bills%20Hawken/Still0006_zps93od9tpu.png

After I took the picture I decided to push it out with grease. I installed a long grease zerk and gave it a couple pumps. I shot out to about 2" before the end. So I screwed in the jag and took it out.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Bills%20Hawken/IMG_2098_zpsdktvi9j3.jpg

I cleaned the barrel as well as I could and JB bore paste on it.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Bills%20Hawken/Still0013_zps3y9xls9y.png

I did what I could with the breech and took pictures.
Before

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Bills%20Hawken/Still0007_zps1vquqolw.png

After

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Bills%20Hawken/Still0011_zpsjxgrinhc.png

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Bills%20Hawken/Still0009_zpsmwzlrtty.png


The Green Mountain barrels are different. They don't have a Patent breech like a TC does but they do have a chamber that is slightly smaller. In these pictures you can see the edge of the chamber if you look close.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/New45cal-Cnew_zps9455574e.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Ron50-C_zpsae1ecc1f.png

I hope this video works. It is a video of one of my green mountain barrels. It shows the shoulder of the chamber.

http://vid223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Bills%20Hawken/Clip0001_zpsqsk03unw.mp4

[rfd]

my humble opinion on breech plugs for both offshore or onshore trad ml guns is that there is no initial need to remove them, and either know, or hope, that the threads of all the things screwed into the barrel - breech plug (patent or classic flat face), touch hole liner, bolster, clean out screw, nipple - were properly lubed to facilitate *possible* future remove.

what "future removal"? that depends on how well the gun is maintained and how often it's used and what level of consistent ignition and overall accuracy one requires from the gun. gun value may also enter the equation - a $400 offshore gun may be addressed quite diff'rently than a $2500 onshore custom. there is a life cycle for all firearm parts, and in particular for muzzleloaders that are loaded with either real bp or a bp sub. these powders are hygroscopic and corrosive, and have a strong tendency to get into things we'd never believe they'd get into, like components threaded in the chamber area of a barrel. this means that the threads of these components can be compromised by powder combustion residue, and when those poorly lubed, or not-at-all-lubed threads corrode, these components can be very very hard to remove - if at all without barrel harm. or, a flintlock was tight patched dry balled (what, you never had that happen, yet? hah!) and no screw worm will budge that lead, nor is there any room against the flat breech face to even get in a grain of powder, and that leaves pulling the breech to free the patched ball.

"what's to remove and what's 'properly lubed'?". at the very least, touch hole liners and nipples, because they do wear out ... FAR more so for nipples than vent liners. at the very most, a percussion gun's bolster/snail, and/or the breech plug. whatever is removed goes back with anti-seize lube. it's that simple.

personally, i see no added functional value to those offshore trad ml patent breech plugs. they only add another chore that i would need to address - cleaning the ante-chamber after a shooting session and/or during the shooting session. lotsa dependencies as to what to do, and what not to do. but for me, and getting the most consistent accuracy and ignition, they need at least a good cleaning after a session. it's the chamber area(s) that take a beating during firing, and if yer shooting without addressing fouling control, it's the chamber area(s) that's never addressed by the patched ball yer pushing down on top of the powder column that sits in the powder residue of the chamber(s).

to address, or not address, fouling control depends on the shooting task at hand, and imo the venues for range shooting, woods walks, and hunting are just different. and we're all gonna do whatever we think is best for each of us, as personal choice is always a good thing. so as always, ymmv.

[54bore]

AWESOME, thank you Ron and rfd!! Video worked flawless Ron! In Ron's video you can see the edge/shoulder of the chamber, it is the super bright ring, it looks like 2 bright rings, When you push your patched jag down the barrel it STOPS at that bright ring, leaving the chamber below untouched, the only way to get in there is with a Smaller Caliber brush, i used a 37 Cal brush on my GM barrel and it worked great, then i wrapped a clean dry patch around the brush leaving a little extra out front, went back in and turned it several times, i changed patches out etc. and did this until they came out nice a clean.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

rfd, one day you'll learn how to pull those off shore plugs :D

[Hogdaddy]

I use big patches & my ball puller, Then i use a pipe cleaner . Never had any problems. plus hot sopyb water first ; )
H/D

[JeffinNZ]

Ante chambers are a complete nonsense and a PITA IMHO. I have been baby sitting a .54 GPR for quite some time and don't shoot it partly because I hate cleaning it. In contrast the straight barrel with White Lightning vent liner on my .40cal flinter is dead easy to clean.

[rfd]

rfd, one day you'll learn how to pull those off shore plugs :D

you mean those SPANISH gun plugs - not a chance, i won't buy such nonsense and you already know that.

[rfd]

...

http://vid223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Bills%20Hawken/Clip0001_zpsqsk03unw.mp4

excellent video, ron. that's a patent breech for shure, with it's ante-chamber and way down to the right is the flue. i hate them damn things. :)

[rfd]

Ante chambers are a complete nonsense and a PITA IMHO. I have been baby sitting a .54 GPR for quite some time and don't shoot it partly because I hate cleaning it. In contrast the straight barrel with White Lightning vent liner on my .40cal flinter is dead easy to clean.

right on, brother. gimme a flat faced breech and a well located chambers white lightning liner for ALL my flinters. couple that with a well tuned lock and a smooth trigger system and i'm ready to rock. :cool:

[mooman76]

I don't see the problem. I was cleaning mine for years before I even knew about the oddity. Never had a problem.

[idahoron]

Sometimes a guy will clean his gun and he knows that it is clean. But still will bet a pinch of color. That is from the Chamber and or breech. Most guys think it is from the barrel, and it can be flash rust on real hot water. But in my opinion it comes from the breech plug and or chamber.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

thats why i give it a shot of gun scrubber, alcohol, carb/brake cleaner, dries that area extremely well and keeps it rust free. A little extra scrubbing never hurts though.

[54bore]

I don't see the problem. I was cleaning mine for years before I even knew about the oddity. Never had a problem.

How can you NOT see the problem? Look at a few of the pictures ron posted. I am not saying that your rifle/rifles are dirty in this area, if you know this chamber exists and you clean one of these guns correctly from the START its doubtful you would have any problems, But a lot of folks dont know these chambers exist? Little lone how to clean them (me being one of them) this is why i started this thread. I think it's important to know its there, and should be looked after to make sure a problem doesnt start in there! Whats to say after cleaning that you dont COMPLETELY get that area dried out and you end up leaving some moisture in there by accident? Let that moisture sit and 'stew' in there. Eventually you WILL have a problem.

[mooman76]

Maybe it's just the way I clean. Not saying there couldn't be a problem. Just saying, I've been cleaning it for over 30 years and haven't had a problem.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

This is probably the easiest breech plug to care for and its on one of those terrible off shore muzzleloaders :D
And thats a flintlock barrel to boot.
184664

[rfd]

ah yes, traditions spanish guns. the company that radically under proofed it's rifles back in '97 and had a massive recall.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/dangerous_muzzleloaders.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/unsafe_muzzleloaders.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/big_deal_about_proof.htm

http://randywakeman.com/DangerousMuzzleloadersAHistory.htm

[54bore]

LOL @ FrontierMuzzleloading and rfd, you might as well give up FrontierMuzzleloading!! LOL

[rfd]

that man do like his traditions guns.

[54bore]

that man do like his traditions guns.

There's a good chance i will end up with one of the darn things to, i can't quit looking at that little Crockett .32 Cal, i would rather have a TC Cherokee in .32 though

[rfd]

having had the crockett, i liked it quite a bit, even though it was one of those new fangled cap guns. :) but it's spanish built and the plug doesn't come out.

better off to find a cherokee ... or even better yet, forget all these offshore guns and get an onshore builder to make you a superb gun to your spex. yeah, the cost will be 2 to 3 times a crockett, but it'll be 10x better than any offshore gun, including those .32's from pedersoli. ymmv.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Anyone that shows links to randy wakeman articles is never taken seriously after that. Other folks have tried it and folks with background knowledge of both Wakeman and Bridges, both know they are frauds and not worth read.

Recall was for inlines from cva. 95-06 models actually. Wakeman went to work on the writings once henry balls ( savage) son in law was injured by a recall gun supposedly.

TC/Knight do not proof their barrels either, so the point is kinda moot. Only savage proofs every single barrel, but those were smokeless muzzleloaders at the time they made them. They have discontinued them after several blow ups, including by Wakeman. The chance of getting a lawsuit was not to their liking.

But we all know how blow ups go. You never will get the real story.

[rfd]

never believe anything you read, see or hear on the interweb. :mrgreen:

[jjarrell]

I use a bronze T/C breech brush to scrub the breach plug. Its a strait bristle brush that sorta looks like a miniature shaving brush that screws into the ramrod. While the barrel is still in your soapy water, put it against the back of the breech plug and spin the ramrod. When you spin it, the brush boogers itself up some on the sides and makes it custom fit the breech. Cleans anything that was left behind out and takes 15 seconds. I've used it for years.

[rfd]

this nifty tool is made for patent breeches. it combines a jag for the bore and a brush for the ante-chamber. the brush is cut to the specific length of the ante-chamber by the user.

to use the patent breech jag/brush, a small slit is cut into the cleaning patch and is slipped over the brush, or the brush is unscrewed from the jag's tip and then patch is screwed down onto the jag's head by the brush's threads. then a patch is wrapped over the brush.

spritzed with plain water, moose milk, LVL, or whatever cleaning concoction one prefers, the custom jag/brush cleans both the bore and ante-chamber in well swell foop.

so where can ya get this special patent breech jag/brush tool??? 8-)

http://i.imgur.com/fkpIx6T.png

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/002-28.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/002-28.jpg.html)
This is my set up for steam cleaning my Rifles.I have taken to Loading my whitworth Rifle as follows:-Powder,Bullet And wipe.Previously I wiped then loaded but found I was dropping debris into the Chamber each time and getting many misfires.It fires every time now.

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/TwoWhitworthrifles004.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/TwoWhitworthrifles004.jpg.html)
The top Rifle is the one that I wipe after loading.

[jjarrell]

this nifty tool is made for patent breeches. it combines a jag for the bore and a brush for the ante-chamber. the brush is cut to the specific length of the ante-chamber by the user.

to use the patent breech jag/brush, a small slit is cut into the cleaning patch and is slipped over the brush, or the brush is unscrewed from the jag's tip and then patch is screwed down onto the jag's head by the brush's threads. then a patch is wrapped over the brush.

spritzed with plain water, moose milk, LVL, or whatever cleaning concoction one prefers, the custom jag/brush cleans both the bore and ante-chamber in well swell foop.

so where can ya get this special patent breech jag/brush tool??? 8-)

http://i.imgur.com/fkpIx6T.png

I'm sure that tool would work great but, no disrespect intended, it sure looks like a PITA. Cutting patches, getting them stuck on the bristles of the brush while trying to put them on the jag. Its 6 one way, half a dozen the other I suppose. There's always more than one way to skin a cat.

Below isn't the T/C brush I use but it looks exactly the same. The bristles curl up on the edges fitting the belled portion of the breech plug as you spin it with the rod.

Then again we could just break out the pressure washer. Slap the barrel in a vise and go to town getting that jewel clean! :mrgreen:

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/rDAAAOSwxH1UF5pq/s-l1600.jpg

[bubba.50]

if it's a used gun, after you clean it right once & know what's what, the OP's method borders on overkill IMHO. but, I'll be the first to admit it, I've only been shootin' these things for 45yrs so it's likely I don't know much. but, in that time I've never had a problem with powder contamination, never had a breechplug get stopped or gummed up & never had a barrel to rust away. again IMHO he'd be better served if he quit slatherin' his bore with oil then lettin' run down into the combustion chamber to set-up & gum-up the works. no matter what the pre-shootin' routine afterwards no way you'll get it all out of the flash channel. after cleanin' & dryin' the bore I give'em a small shot of Barricade & set'em in the rack MUZZLE-DOWN and as stated earlier, I've never had one to gunk/gum-up & contaminate my charge or ever had a barrel to rust away.

[rfd]

I'm sure that tool would work great but, no disrespect intended, it sure looks like a PITA. Cutting patches, getting them stuck on the bristles of the brush while trying to put them on the jag. Its 6 one way, half a dozen the other I suppose. There's always more than one way to skin a cat.

Below isn't the T/C brush I use but it looks exactly the same. The bristles curl up on the edges fitting the belled portion of the breech plug as you spin it with the rod.

Then again we could just break out the pressure washer. Slap the barrel in a vise and go to town getting that jewel clean! :mrgreen:



yer bristle brush is still a separate operation , i'm talking about doing two steps in one and sticking on the cleaning patches goes quicker than you'd think.

and can't take a pressure washer afield easily ... i don't think? :)

[fgd135]

This is my set up for steam cleaning my Rifles.I have taken to Loading my whitworth Rifle as follows:-Powder,Bullet And wipe.Previously I wiped then loaded but found I was dropping debris into the Chamber each time and getting many misfires.It fires every time now.

I've been interested in using a steam cleaners like yours. Did you make a long wand for the bore, or are you just using the standard attachments? Thanks, I'll be using it on my patent breech PH Volunteer.

[54bore]

184797

184798

This is mine, its actually from TC themselves, called a Patented breech scraper, designed to fit perfectly in their patented breeches and scrape the Crud out, if any is present

[54bore]

if it's a used gun, after you clean it right once & know what's what, the OP's method borders on overkill IMHO. but, I'll be the first to admit it, I've only been shootin' these things for 45yrs so it's likely I don't know much. but, in that time I've never had a problem with powder contamination, never had a breechplug get stopped or gummed up & never had a barrel to rust away. again IMHO he'd be better served if he quit slatherin' his bore with oil then lettin' run down into the combustion chamber to set-up & gum-up the works. no matter what the pre-shootin' routine afterwards no way you'll get it all out of the flash channel. after cleanin' & dryin' the bore I give'em a small shot of Barricade & set'em in the rack MUZZLE-DOWN and as stated earlier, I've never had one to gunk/gum-up & contaminate my charge or ever had a barrel to rust away.

Bubba.50, I do everything overkill! Heck, back before i was married i went home with fat girl once a whole bunch of times!! LOL, not really
I DEFINITELY plan to change my routine a bit, i will continue to use the new style pump spray Rem oil and coat my bore good after she's clean and dried out good, but i will DEFINITELY be parking my rifles business end down from now on!

[bubba.50]

Hey, don't knock a fat girl. one of the most grateful creatures in all God's creation!

[Col4570]

I've been interested in using a steam cleaners like yours. Did you make a long wand for the bore, or are you just using the standard attachments? Thanks, I'll be using it on my patent breech PH Volunteer.
I thought about making a Long Wand to reach the Breach area but find that with the Nipple out the Steam does its work.I use ready made Windscreen Wiper fluid first on a Jag to soften the Crud,then I flush it out with Steam,Th Hot Barrel soon dries then I wipe out with Auto Engine Oil.I always store Barrel down.I have a Length of stainless Steel Brake Pipe destined for a Long Wand but so far the above routine works well.

[54bore]

Hey, don't knock a fat girl. one of the most grateful creatures in all God's creation!

Yep, Good Ole Big uns, and Big Ole Good uns!

[rfd]

bp residue cleans up real nice with plain ol' tepid tap water. resorting to anything more invasive would indicate to me the barrel's bore and chamber(s) has, or has had, issues. typically those issues usually have to do with a not-so-good cleaning regimen. on a new gun barrel, after i've properly cared for and embalmed all its threads, 7 years later and with only water cleaning, it's like new on the inside other than getting lapped via patched balls. just plain water, the staff of life, and some patched jags and some God given elbow grease, that's it, no special tooling, can do it most anywhere. no more. nothing else. cleans out quick 'n' easy. then a bit of something good for metal preservation whilst the tube awaits another firing visit afield.

yes, indeed ... thank God for good ol' big 'uns, and big ol' good 'uns! :)

[54bore]

I have always used a little touch of dawn dish soap, no reason other than it seems like a good thing to do, and can't cause any harm that i can see? I fill my cleaning bucket directly from my tap not scalding hot, just comfortable warm, if you were to sit down in it there'd be no worries of scalding your butt cheeks. Many many years ago they cleaned their guns in creeks, etc. But i believe if they'd of had better stuff available back then they would have used it! Just wasn't an option back then, Butch's Blackpowder solvent and the likes hadn't hit the scenes.
My grandfather was a Carpenter and a DAMN good one! He used 2 different Hand Saws, he owned a set tool for adjusting the teeth, sharpened them himself etc. He built several really nice homes in the area i grew up, and North Carolina. From cutting boards to ripping sheets of plywood, He did EVERYTHING with his Handsaws! That was til i showed him how a good Skil Saw worked! I pulled in the driveway one day and grandpa was cross cutting boards for my Grandmother's Car port, he had several boards cut, but had a LARGE pile left to cut, I ran to the neighbors and borrowed a Skil Saw, i cut that entire pile in just a few minutes, my Grandpa Grinned and watched in amazement!! From that Day on when he was building anything of size he would have me cut everything with a Skil Saw. This story is talked, and laughed about through my whole family to date!
Moral of the story, Just because 'They' did not use it back in the old days DOES NOT mean they would not have, if it had been available. Technology fellas, its not always a bad thing.

[jjarrell]

186551The original T/C cleaning jags were made to clean the patent breech. This is one of my original.54 cal T/C jags. Notice how a portion is smaller to fit into the breech plug.

[Rojelio]

Yep, Good Ole Big uns, and Big Ole Good uns!

And they keep you warm in the winter and give you shade in the summer.

[54bore]

186551The original T/C cleaning jags were made to clean the patent breech. This is one of my original.54 cal T/C jags. Notice how a portion is smaller to fit into the breech plug.

That's cool jjarrell!! To the few that say this Patented breech/Ante chamber is a 'non issue' or however, don't you find it kinda odd that TC made, and STIL makes tools to get in the Patented Breech? TC themselves seen it as a problem, or better yet they made tools to allow you to clean it so it didn't become a problem! With proper care and cleaning regimen these Patented breeches shouldn't be an issue, but it sure as hell dont hurt to know they are there

[varsity07840]

[QUOTE=jjarrell;3904855]I'm sure that tool would work great but, no disrespect intended, it sure looks like a PITA. Cutting patches, getting them stuck on the bristles of the brush while trying to put them on the jag. Its 6 one way, half a dozen the other I suppose. There's always more than one way to skin a cat.

Below isn't the T/C brush I use but it looks exactly the same. The bristles curl up on the edges fitting the belled portion of the breech plug as you spin it with the rod.

Then again we could just break out the pressure washer. Slap the barrel in a vise and go to town getting that jewel clean! :mrgreen:

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/rDAAAOSwxH1UF5pq/s-l1600.jpg[/QUO TE]
The problem with the jag/brush combo is that the brush will bend very easily. I use a .30 cal brush with a patch wrapped around it. It's a tight fit in the chamber so it doesn't bend.

[jjarrell]

That's cool jjarrell!! To the few that say this Patented breech/Ante chamber is a 'non issue' or however, don't you find it kinda odd that TC made, and STIL makes tools to get in the Patented Breech? TC themselves seen it as a problem, or better yet they made tools to allow you to clean it so it didn't become a problem! With proper care and cleaning regimen these Patented breeches shouldn't be an issue, but it sure as hell dont hurt to know they are there

The newer T/C jags don't have the small portion on the tip anymore. Since they went to exclusively making in-lines the jags are full caliber and shorter. They no longer make the old style. You can still find the original ones in old gun shops, black powder shops, e-bay, or at flea markets.

[bob208]

And they keep you warm in the winter and give you shade in the summer.

and if they tattoos you have moving pictures year round.

[tomme boy]

This is Thompson Centers answer to clean the breach plug

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/771603/thompson-center-breech-plug-scraper-36-58-caliber-and-12-gauge-brass

[54bore]

This is Thompson Centers answer to clean the breach plug

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/771603/thompson-center-breech-plug-scraper-36-58-caliber-and-12-gauge-brass

Yep! If you go back to post #39 i have a picture of this TC tool, i found them on the shelf at a local sporting goods store