Uberti 1876 45-60

[Irascible]

Well I finally bit the bullet, so to speak. After wanting an 1876 for about 10 years I sprung for a new Cimarron / Uberti Centennial with the 28" barrel. I bought the rifle in 45-60 caliber because I was reading that the brass is easily made from 45-70 cases.
Brass...After I ordered the rifle, I started reading about loads. It seems the 45-70 to 40-65 conversion is not as easy as it sounds. The brass differs not only in length, but depending on the headspace in your rifle, you may also have to alter the rim diameter and thickness! I said to heck with it and bought some properly head stamped brass from Jamison. And that required that I buy a shell holder (RCBS #45) to fit it. The brass was here right away and a month before the rifle. Measuring the brass, it came out .010 too short. A minor difference. It also had some nasty burrs around the inside of the flash holes which I uniformed to get rid of those. Later when firing, I also found the brass had shortened another .010" more. All very minor thorns really.
Molds... I then started looking at my molds and their measurements. I had 457191 at 298 gr. and 457192 at 339gr (discontinued) both with no crimp grooves and an RCBS 325-FN. The RCBS had a crimp groove at the perfect nose length for the 1876. All were plain base. I would use the RCBS for non case filling smokeless loads and the 457191 and 457192 molds with black or 777. I also found that Buffalo Arms has a mold which is a copy of the 457191 which has the top lube groove changed to a crimp groove. It is special order and not cheap. All bullets are .457 dia of either 1 in 20 (Black Powder) or 50/50 +2% tin with 5744 and 777.
Rifle...I finally received the rifle and was checking out when I dry fired it and realized the firing pin extension was not bouncing back when I pulled the hammer back. I started to open the lever and the extension jumped right back. I figure that there must be something that wasn't cleaned properly. I took off the side plates and was greeted by a lot of grit. Like fine sand or maybe the remnants of polishing or grinding. I disassembled the entire thing, quite easy actually, and cleaned it all out. There was nothing at all in the firing pin assembly. Leaving the action empty, except for the firing pin assembly, I studied the problem and realized that the extractor was so strong that closing it on an empty chamber would slightly cock the bolt and firing pin and bind them up. Luckily I tried an empty case, with the case in place all was just fine. I still need to work on the trigger which is heavy at almost 9 pounds, but I have now fired the rifle with black, 777 and 5744. The black powder loads are only 51 grains (by weight) of Goex Cartridge and still quite a bit of compression, but accurate. I use the 457192 bullet for these as the lube grooves are bigger that the ones on the 457191. The 777 is not accurate and very dirty. 25gr of 5744 with the RCBS bullet is very accurate and my favorite so far. So far I have only used SPG lube.

[Ninety Caliber]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Since you've had the rifle have you tried any cut-down 45-70 brass.
I've been wanting one of those rifles and had pretty well decided on 45-60 for that same reason. I understand that the larger caliber brass is almost impossible to find.
It can supposedly be made from .348 Winchester brass I think but is fairly labor intensive from what I've heard. Any of your first -hand experiences would be extremely helpful in my decision making process.
Thanks in advance.

Al

[Irascible]

I have not tried the 45-70 brass conversion, maybe someday. Some say it works fine with only shortening others say it's like closing a pair of vice grips when you close the lever. The 45-70 case rims are only .010 thicker. It completely depends on how the gun was headspaced. Jamison 45-60 brass is in stock at Midway And Buffalo Arms. I think the 348 brass conversion is for the 50 caliber rifle and I understand Starline makes brass for that one.

[Irascible]

A side bar. I'm installing a Marbles original tang sight (new manufacture) from a Uberti 1873. It fits and it sits at the proper angle. The short screw was a 10-32 and one came in the kit. The long one in the kit was a metric 5 X .8 but the rifle is tapped for a 10-32? I'm awaiting the proper screw from Brownells, it is Marbles screw kit #995010. Marbles still insists that they don't make a tang sight for the Uberti 1876?

[Dusty Ed]

Howdy Fellers
I have Winchester 1876 I bought from Cimarron 8 t0 10 years ago , Cut down Win. 45-70 Brass load it with 24.5gn of IMR4759, 275gn. Lyman or a 300 gn. Magma Bullet.
It will shoot 2" off the bench all day long .
We have a running Buffalo at our Buffalo rifle Shoot, we shoot off hand at 100yds , it takes about 20 Sec. for the 15" X 20 " Buffalo to travel 100' , Consistently hit it 8 to 9 times, i have
hit it a few 10 times
I have 1886 I took the Marbles sight off of it an screwed right on the 1876 , I couldn't shoot to 300yds. with so sent to Baco for a medium high sight stem,
Well I could shoot 300 yds. plus but I couldn't shoot 100 yds. with it ,so I soldered a piece of brass the to the front sight shaped it an file down to where I'm shooting 2" high at 100 yds. an still shooting 3oo yds plus.
That is my story an I'm sticking to it.

[Irascible]

The way I'm reading you is that the Marbles sight stem BACO sent you would not go low enough, is that correct?

[OlDeuce]

Great Year.....My Uberti 1876 is in 45-60 with no issues in cutting down the 45-70 brass ! I use IMR 4198 or 3fff with a 300 RN cast .

185166

[OlDeuce]

I'm reading that the Marbles sight stem BACO sent would not go low enough, is that correct?

If the BACO won't lower enough to shoot the 100yd could you change your muzzle sight to a taller blade???? Only a thought

I use MVA with the Large eye cup .........100yds. does well!!!

[Irascible]

Yea, he said he did that.

[Irascible]

Well, I received my new Buffalo Arms Co mould for their 45-300 bullet. It is a perfect bullet for the M1876 using smokeless powder. A copy of the Lyman 457191 with improvements, the upper lube groove has been changed to a properly located crimp groove, and the two lower lube grooves have been widened to hold more lube. Probably as much lube now as there was with the three narrow grooves of the original bullet. It also casts at .458 with an alloy of 1 in 20. No, it is not cheap, but at $180 for a properly designed, 2 cavity steel mold, I think it's worth it.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Have a 50-95 and a 45-60 repro also.
Years back started shooting BP cartridge rifles. Started with BP and tried smokeless in most. Over the years learned that BP cartridges and firearms have an inherit like for BP. So with every "new to me" BP firearm it gets a good diet of BP and 40-1 cast until it shows it's best accuracy. 40-1 will expand easily (even with 250 grainers) to fill the groove even if .003 undersized.

Then if I so desire smokeless will get a try to even or beat that "best loads accuracy". Well with the 1876 repros that bless our rack BP has always turned in the best groups consistently. For the repeater cartridge rifles I start with 3F as it always expands the brass in the chamber with no blow back into the action or smudged brass. 10 rounds plus can be fired with no accuracy loss.

With the 50-95 it was a lot of smokeless down range before one powder came close to equaling the 3F loads without going over the velocity developed by the 3F loads. Hard or soft, groove diameter to +.003 diameter... it was a challenge to come close to the 40-1 3F loads. The 45-60 was a bit easier but still as of yet no smokeless load will be the 3F loads.

So do not overlook real BP for setting the accuracy standard of any BP cartridge rifle. From the beginning you will have an accurate load that will always be ready to fall back on if you find the "other loads" are getting frustrating.
Mike in Peru

[Irascible]

Sending the rifle back for repairs! It has always had a hitch in the reloading cycle which I was blaming on OAL or carrier problems. Basicly, to reload a round from the magazine tube, would take excessive force and quickness. Today I pulled the side plates off and found a load of brass filings. Studying the problem, I watched as each new cartridge came into the elevator with the rim cocked to the right where it would then get caught under a tab sticking down from the frame. With force, it would shave off some brass from the rim and finally move upward to load. I called Cimarron and they told me to send it to their repairman. So it's off tomorrow. Hopefully it will be back soon.

[OlDeuce]

Sending the rifle back for repairs! It has always had a hitch in the reloading cycle which I was blaming on OAL or carrier problems. Basicly, to reload a round from the magazine tube, would take excessive force and quickness. Today I pulled the side plates off and found a load of brass filings. Studying the problem, I watched as each new cartridge came into the elevator with the rim cocked to the right where it would then get caught under a tab sticking down from the frame. With force, it would shave off some brass from the rim and finally move upward to load. I called Cimarron and they told me to send it to their repairman. So it's off tomorrow. Hopefully it will be back soon.

Sorry to hear that ! My '76 has had no issues ! from the first shot 30 years ago... the 3fff with a 300gr boolits .! when I'm in a clean mode I use
26gr of IMR4198 and it feels really close to the 59gr of 3fff! this Ol girl shoots as good as she looks:guntootsmiley: Ol Deuce

[Irascible]

OlDeuce, I take it that 59 FFF is a weight charge?

[OlDeuce]

Yes on my 1010 scale.......Ol Deuce

[Irascible]

Well, it took 2 months, but the rifle is back and seems to work fine. It fed and fired 7 rounds with no problem. Now to re-install my own sights and get it sighted in.

[OlDeuce]

Well, it took 2 months, but the rifle is back and seems to work fine. It fed and fired 7 rounds with no problem. Now to re-install my own sights and get it sighted in.
For my '76 the 300gr boolit is most important !!! Keep us posted :-) Ol Deuce

[flint45]

If you need brass try cutting down a few .45-70 they worked fine in mine no headspace problems at all.

[Irascible]

Another 14 rounds today, 4 with Goex Cartridge and Lyman 457192, 10 with 5744 and the BACO 45-300 bullet. Function was fine, but this certainly is not a smooth action, hopefully use will smooth it out.
Loaded 59gr of FFF Goex Old Einsford with the Federal 215 primer under a Walters wad and behind the BACO bullet. I have high hopes for this load. Although it seems like quite a bit of compression.

[OlDeuce]

Another 14 rounds today, 4 with Goex Cartridge and Lyman 457192, 10 with 5744 and the BACO 45-300 bullet. Function was fine, but this certainly is not a smooth action, hopefully use will smooth it out.
Loaded 59gr of FFF Goex Old Einsford with the Federal 215 primer under a Walters wad and behind the BACO bullet. I have high hopes for this load. Although it seems like quite a bit of compression.

Never used a wad on any of my BP......Hmmm Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

Another 14 rounds today, 4 with Goex Cartridge and Lyman 457192, 10 with 5744 and the BACO 45-300 bullet. Function was fine, but this certainly is not a smooth action, hopefully use will smooth it out.
Loaded 59gr of FFF Goex Old Einsford with the Federal 215 primer under a Walters wad and behind the BACO bullet. I have high hopes for this load. Although it seems like quite a bit of compression.

How did she do??????????????:Fire::Fire::Fire::Fire::Fire::2_h igh5::happy dance:Ol Deuce

[JimP.]

i've got the 45-75, 28.0 grs AA 5744 and an Oregon Trails 350 gr FN, shoots 1400 fs....love it....

[Irascible]

It didn't work well, by the time I got to shooting the 59gr load had lengthened!! Too much compression I guess. I should have crimped the bullet it place. Anyway, I single loaded 1 and it kicked like a mule. I went through all the measuring again, searching for no more than .125 compression and still using the .060" wad. I ended up with 55 gr of Old Einsford FF with .110 compression under the BACO 300 gr bullet and crimped it this time. Shoots very well and the recoil is as much as I want to endure with that masochistic, curved, rifle butt plate. I'll report back when I get an average group size and chrono data.

[Dusty Ed]

Howdy Irascible
I think you were asking me if the sight stem was to long to sight in at 100 yds. i got from Brownells , the answer is yes , that is why I had to solder a brass bar on the front sight.
I also size my cast bullets to .459

[Irascible]

No, it was somebody else suggested a taller sight. I answered that you had already done that.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Get yourself a "curved buttplate leather cover". Have one on our 50-95 and recoil is no issue. 350 grains at 1465 fps. 85 + grains of 3F.
But then we seldom shoot on a bench with fat caliber rifles. Cross sticks with a bit of practice will give you groups that are near as good as a bench.
Mike in Peru

[Irascible]

Just bought one from Kirkpatrick.......Helps a lot

[Irascible]

Just for the heck of it I looked on you tube under 1876. I watched one fellow who made a big deal of pushing the last loaded round to the left after it was in the magazine tube. I tried it. darned if it didn't help. WHY? Is the elevator a one size fits all to accept the 45-75 and 50 caliber and thus too large a diameter to correctly align the thinner cartridges? If so, it would seem that one could sleeve the hole for the smaller cartridges. Maybe? Or is it for another reason?

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Remember the lifter also has to permit the rim to pass completely through during the loading process. The excess diameter makes side gate loading possible without forcing the loaded round to "bend around the corner". The straight line "tube" loading of the Henry never faced this issue.
Plus if you are loading to max length, the last loaded round has to have the rim sitting flush with the receiver wall. If the round is sitting at an angle it is "to long" in that canted position. The nose edge or the rim edge is going to catch. By squaring that round in the lifter it will be less apt to get the rim and nose past the receiver edges on the way up.

[Irascible]

Thanks, I was thinking of making some brass about .020 longer, full length of the elevator. Maybe that's not a good idea. I'll study it some more tomorrow, plenty of time while the snow is falling. 2-4 inches, but it should be all gone by Saturday.