Best forend adhesion?

[nekshot]

I have been using Acra Gel fore most forends and Titebond brown glue for others. I don't have exotic woods with oils to deal with as I blacken the piece to be glued on with the old vinegar\steelwool juice. Just wondering if any new products that work better? I also glue a lot of my stocks with thinner pieces till I get my thickness needed. This is a poor mans way to get thick wood put they sure are staple, never had one warp.

[pietro]

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I'm a little confused - By "forends", do you mean attaching forend tips, or laminating forends of 2-piece stock sets ?

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[country gent]

On wood fit of the joint is as important as the glue. For forend tips I like to add a dowel in the joint also. A close fit with rough surfaces makes for a solid joint. Also when clamping be watch the pressure so the glue isnt pushed out not leaving enough to give a good bond section. I have used accraglass, micro bed, and a indutrial epoxy that when mixed was almost water thin and had an 24 hour cure time. This industrial epoxy made for a very strong joint as it didnt require the bond thickness of the others and it soaked into the woods grain deeper, I actually coated each side of the joint 3 times as the first ones soaked in. I dont remeber the name or maker of it anymore. For laminating I use a thin long cure epoxy and very rough surfaces with heavy clamp pressure to make for solid joints. I lay heavy channel iron down each side and clamp every 3-4" making sure glue is pushed out from each joint in a bead. I leave these beads until almost cured to make sure voids are filled. Once cured to solid soft stage I cut them off with a sharp wood chisel. Let cure and work. I like the thinner epoxies for this work. On the exotics a soak and clean with alchlol on the joint to remove these oils, a dowel to add bond surface and shear strength along with a rough surface. I have cut shallow checkering leaving a thin border around the edge this gives bond surface and strngth with out showing.

[Von Gruff]

For the forend tip I will use three 1/8 in brass dowels and a 12hr cure epoxy. I do "mark" the dowels with end nippers to give a number of little serations that afford an even better grip for the epoxy.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo2431_zpsih9x67r3.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Photo2431_zpsih9x67r3.jpg.html)

I have done the same thing for a laminated stock but I start with a 15mm center stick and shape it from the action down toward the forend tip then back through the wrist so that the outer 7mm laminates are full length so they are not cut through like general laminates which I think adds to the strength of the stock. You can see the shaped center section on this one where I have used different coloured woods to do a Rigby styled stock for a 7x57.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/003-1.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/003-1.jpg.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/007.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/007.jpg.html)

[nekshot]

thanks for the replies, Country Gent what type of epoxy do you use? I bought some epoxy from Lowes and that stuff is expensive compared to Acra Glass.

Von Gruff it looks like you tapered that middle piece. I need to do that and see if I can get it looking as good as yours!

[gnoahhh]

If the question concerns gluing on a tip, I do what Von Gruff does, usually, but I also sometimes do it another way. I epoxy the tip right onto the end of the stock with no dowels, and after the glue cures I mill a groove in the barrel channel that subtends both the wood and the tip, then glue in a tight fitting floating tenon. The crummy bond that exists between two end grain surfaces is good enough to hold things together long enough to effect the tenon installation.

[405grain]

Even when using oily exotic woods for forearm tips and grip caps I have had good luck using Gorilla glue. I use a dowel when installing the forearm tip to increase strength, and remove as much oil from the wood with several wipes with acetone before gluing. One thing to note: hand rubbed oil finishes work fine on exotic & oily woods, but polyurethane based finishes do not. If you plan on using exotic wood for the forearm tip or grip cap, the natural oils in the wood will prevent the poly from setting - it will remain tacky forever. If you want to finish a stock in polyurethane for better wet weather protection, the best way that I've found to do this is to apply several coats of wax free shellac to any exotic wood parts to seal them before applying the poly finish. Remove as much oil from the wood as possible with acetone or alcohol before applying the shellac. Allow the shellac to dry thoroughly before continuing with finishing the stock. This has worked well for me.

[gnoahhh]

Good advice re: de-oiling wood surfaces before gluing. That is SOP for me when gluing teak, ebony, rosewood, etc. So much so that I wipe the joints of "regular" wood too, as a matter of course.

To each his own when it comes to glues. I gave Gorilla Glue a fair workout years ago and gave it up, preferring epoxy. But then again I know from epoxy, having gone through multiple 50 gallon drums of West System over the years. Heck, I don't even use yellow glue anymore, just go straight to the epoxy.

Interesting bit about polyurethane not curing on exotic oily woods. Now, granted I don't believe in polyurethane for a couple of esoteric reasons and use spar varnish exclusively for all varnish requirements, but I had never heard of that happening. In the custom yacht carpentry game with a preponderance of teak in play, we just sand, tack with alcohol to remove dust, and varnish with never an issue of the finish not curing. I doubt the alcohol is volatile enough to knock the oil in teak back so as to prevent it from rising right back up. Same deal when working with rosewood, sapele, cocobolo, ebony, etc. (a lot of very high end custom yacht carpentry :) )