loading gate sticks open on Win 1886 .38-56

[Gunlaker]

I've got an old Win 1886 in .38-56 that I'm playing around with. I've owned it for at least 3 years but have only rarely shot the thing.

The bore looks like a gravel road, but it still seems to shoot the Buffalo Arms .382" 260gr bullet cast in 20:1 pretty well with 52gr of Goex FFg.

My rifle does have a mechanical problem though. When pushing the loading gate open, it goes about 80% of the way and then encounters resistance. The loading gate seems to be interfering with another internal part.

In the drawing below, I think it's #71 (Cartridge guide) or #73 ( Cartridge Stop ).

http://homestead-service.com/appraisals/winchester/1886/images/schematic1886.jpg

If I push it just a little bit harder, it'll open all the way, but hangs up. I can get the loading gate to close again, but only by gently prying downward on it. I'd estimate that it's interfering only a couple of thousands. I'm sure that a few seconds with a file on the edge of the Cartridge guide would clean it up, but I'm no 1886 expert. I'm wondering if any of you guys have encountered this before. It's an old and roughly used rifle, but I don't want to Bubba it :mrgreen:.

thanks,

Chris.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I'd bet that a disassembly and good cleaning of parts and a little lubrication would solve the problem.

[Hick]

I'm not sure about the 1886, but if it was a model 1894 I would check to see if your right side cartridge guide is loose. The clearance between the 1894 bottom of the cartridge guide and the top of the loading gate is very, very close. The cartridge guide could be just loose enough to still function but be dripping down a tiny bit causing the interference.

[fordwannabe]

I believe this to be a catastrophic failure waiting to happen. I would not shoot that rifle at this point. I have been especially trained to dispose of such dangerous weapons, and as a favor to you as a fellow board member will dispose of it for FREE, if you send it to me. Ok disassemble the loading gate and look for the shines spots, that's where the thing is catching. Nice rifle. I have 3 original 1886s but none in 38-56. I have dies though just in case.

[Gunlaker]

I'm not sure about the 1886, but if it was a model 1894 I would check to see if your right side cartridge guide is loose. The clearance between the 1894 bottom of the cartridge guide and the top of the loading gate is very, very close. The cartridge guide could be just loose enough to still function but be dripping down a tiny bit causing the interference.

You are 100% correct. After writing the post I was fiddling with the rifle and noticed that even though the cartridge guide screw is tight, I can move the cartridge guide a little bit with my finger when the action is open. The screw, even when tight, does not hold the cartridge guide tight to the side of the receiver. I imagine that it should be quite tight? Maybe this rifle has had some parts swapping done on it.

thanks for any advice,

Chris.

[Hick]

I used a small dab of blue loctite (the less permanent one) on mine and it seems to hold fine.

[pietro]

After writing the post I was fiddling with the rifle and noticed that even though the cartridge guide screw is tight, I can move the cartridge guide a little bit with my finger when the action is open.

The screw, even when tight, does not hold the cartridge guide tight to the side of the receiver.




My money's on the possibility that someone disassembled the rifle, then lost the guide screw - resulting in using an improper screw whose threads fit.


.

[Chill Wills]

I've got an old Win 1886 in .38-56 that I'm playing around with. I've owned it for at least 3 years but have only rarely shot the thing.
The bore looks like a gravel road, but it still seems to shoot the Buffalo Arms .382" 260gr bullet cast in 20:1 pretty well with 52gr of Goex FFg. Chris.

Chris, I have one of these too in what I would guess might be similar condition, bore and all. I traded a Winchester M-71 for it about four years ago at the May Colorado Collector's Show.
The fella that had it provided his dads loading notes on it and a fairly good Ideal combo #6 loading tool.

I did some load trials, the normal stuff. BP did shoot well enough and the bullets cast from the Ideal tool shot Okay too. I wasn't sure how much accuracy to expect from the dark bore.
I had two other bullet molds that I tried that had proved them self in other rifles. One was an old Walt era NEI 6-cavity that cast a 275grn GC - 380" diameter bullet and the other is a 381" - 265grn PB from Old West bullet molds that cast from a 3-cavity brass mold.
Both shoot well enough with various powders including black but the former owner had highlighted the use of IMR-3031 as being the hands down most accurate loads in this old 1886.
I was dismissive of trying it. I just did not want to use that level of load - both amount of powder and velocity.

There was a point in time his loading notes got the best of me and I wanted to give 3031 a try.
He had both 28grs and 30grs listed as "most accurate".
Well - they are. Accuracy with the 28 grain load and the NEI GC bullet was even slightly better than 30 grains and that was fine with me.
I don't use the rifle as a hunting rifle but do shoot it in monthly Cowboy silhouette matches. Being a heavy rifle it holds well and the lighter recoil as compared to the same rifle chambered in 45-70 makes it a joy to compete with.

Not many people shoot the 38-56 Winchester so little help here1

[Gunlaker]

Thanks Michael. We don't have any lever action silhouette up here, but this rifle and cartridge would be an excellent choice I think.

I have some IMR-3031 loading data here somewhere. I don't know if it was a Ken Waters article, but maybe. I also have some from MLV's levergun book. I think I'll mostly stick to BP though. I might try duplexing with my left over SR-4759 if I have any accuracy problems. I've only ever shot the rifle off hand so I don't actually know how accurate it is, but the bullets seem to hit the paper close to where the front sights were when the gun goes off :-).

When I first bought it I tried some smaller diameter bullets, maybe 0.376" or .378" bullets and they tumbled completely at 50 yards. My BACO 382260 mold actually makes bullets at 0.381" which is as big as I can go in a fired case. They print perfectly round holes which is nice ;-).

With BP I seem to be able to shoot a fair bit without fouling out, but the ugly bumpy bore makes for some lengthy cleaning afterward. A Rhoades Delrin rod helps a lot.

I've been playing around with the cartridge guide and the screw. From the pictures on the Homestead Parts web site, it looks like the right screw. I've got a friend with a few 1886's and he's actually done a lot of gunsmithing so I will see if I can compare my rifle with his. I see that Homestead Parts sells complete screw kits for not too much $$$.

I don't want to spend too much time on this rifle though, as anything that's not BPTR takes time from BPTR :-). I'm the sort of person that needs to do a lot of practicing or bad habits creep in.

Chris.