Mosin Nagant 91/30 Sub MOA

[deac777]

Several years ago I bought a Russian Mosin Nagat for $89 and have been shooting spam can ammo until recently when the mil surplus ammo started to dry up. Earlier this year I started casting for the 7.62x54R using Lyman 314229 and the Lee C312-185-1R molds and have been testing with several powders, Alliant 2400, Unique, Alliant Reloader 7, H335, and Accurate 5744.

I have tested over 50 different combinations of bullets, powders, and charge weights. Most of the loads had groupings from 1.5 inches to 4 inches, at 100 yards. Yesterday I finally found a load that shot sub MOA from this $89 rifle.

The Load: 7.62x54R
Lyman 314299 cast at 202 grains with Lyman #2, sized to .313
27.0 grains Alliant Reloader 7
CCI large rifle primers
new PPU brass
COAL = 2.918"

I forgot to mention that I did have a scope on this rifle and the scope cost a lot more than the rifle.

[Walstr]

Congrats on your successful experimenting! Now you've helped me with a direction I can go to feed my Mosin too. This is a great site because of folks like you making these real world contributions.

[Scharfschuetze]

Glad to hear that you are enjoying well earned success with your MN. That's a lot of testing. I've never tried Reloader 7 in mine, so your results are interesting.

Your choice of the 314299 bullet is spot on. What a great design for the 31 cal rifles.

I've got a MN 91/30 sniper rifle and it's pretty close to MOA. It's a fun rifle to shoot.

[seppos]

Exelent!
Have you tried VV powders?
N130 is about the same as reloader 7.

S

[mac1911]

I had very good luck with H4895 reduced per hodgdons directions. I'm pushing them about 1800fps..IIRC I was averaging 1814fps.
My rifle has a worn bore and with surplus or the .312" bullets inside the 7 ring of the SR1 target is about the best you can hope for.
With 2400 and H4895 I'm under 3"

[725]

Excellent report. Hope to move in that direction, myself. Thanks.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

that's some good shooting what kind of scope mount did you use

[LAGS]

I have almost gone excluslive to Reloader 7 in my rifles with cast boolits.
I have posted pictures of come of my targets in other threads for the M N,and am getting very good accuracy with out being some weak Mouse Fart load at close ranges.

[mike69]

This is good to see I have the noe version of the 314299 mold coming for my mosin . Has anybody used imr4064 with this bullet ? I have that and imr3031 that I am wanting to try in it .

[LAGS]

I think the 4064 is too much for the cast boolits in this round.
But I do use it for Jacketed rounds.
But the 3031 should work with something similar to the .303 and 30/ 40 loading data for starters.
This round performs very nice with the proper powders, like RL7 4759 , 5744 , 2400

[mike69]

I think the 4064 is too much for the cast boolits in this round.
But I do use it for Jacketed rounds.
But the 3031 should work with something similar to the .303 and 30/ 40 loading data for starters.
This round performs very nice with the proper powders, like RL7 4759 , 5744 , 2400

Thanks for the info the 4064 works real good with my jacketed rounds. I have 2 mosins want to have 1 for cast and the one I've been shooting and hunting with I just keep it shooting the jacketed in it . It will under a inch at 100 yards if I do my part its scoped and in a different stock with 3 inches cut off the barrel. I do have imr4227 on hand to any thoughts on that one ?

[LAGS]

I do load with IMR 4227 and get good loads.
I am moving my house around , and cant find the most current data I used with it and for what boolits.
Give it a go, and if I remember correctly, I was hitting a sweet spot with the 198 and 200 grain boolits around 28 to 30 grains

[dverna]

Three shot groups are good for weeding out poor loads with jacketed bullets. A load that gives 2" groups with jacketed is never going to be sub MOA. With cast, unless one is a flier (bad cast, GC not seated right etc) it may tell you something but it may not. The reason is cast bullets are not as consistent.

A 3 shot group that shoots well with either a jacketed or cast bullet needs further testing It can be a fluke. So a few 5 or 10 shot groups are needed to confirm the load. But that is FUN!!! Well....unless "the load" winds up not meeting expectations.

BTW, I saw an interesting test done with an AR. The guy shot a number of 3 shot groups. He placed a fresh target for each group over another target. He got quite a few sub MOA 3 shot groups but after 10 or so strings the bottom target showed a 2 MOA group.

One thing to bear in mind. If a gun normally shoots 1.5-4 MOA, a sub MOA group is suspect. Not saying it cannot happen, but the odds are not in your favor.

Good luck

Don Verna

[deac777]

that's some good shooting what kind of scope mount did you use

I installed the Leapers UTG Mosin Nagant mount with the Leapers Long eye relief Scout scope.
https://www.tacticalwholesalers.com/Leapers-Inc-UTG-Mosin-Nagant-Tactical-Tri-rail-Mount-MNT-MNTR01_p_143384.html?gclid=Cj0KEQiA7qLDBRD9xJ7PscD Cu5IBEiQAqo3BxCHYC2ywMK5xjhXUvCI64he3iTo37G0CbT5J1 ZZU4OUaAvGw8P8HAQ

[mike69]

I do load with IMR 4227 and get good loads.
I am moving my house around , and cant find the most current data I used with it and for what boolits.
Give it a go, and if I remember correctly, I was hitting a sweet spot with the 198 and 200 grain boolits around 28 to 30 grains

Thanks I'll start with it and go from there.

[LAGS]

@ dverna.
Setting up a Master Target, like you mentioned is the best way to Prove the overall consistancy of your firearm.
Once I weed out loads with Inconsistant Groups, then I prove the overall performance by doing the stacked fresh targets over the Master Target.
But all the Groups on the over targets can be Sub MOA and the Master Target shows a 2" overall group.
But that can be a result of Barrel temperature, or wind at the time That Perticular group was fired.
You can result with a 1/2" group all the time, but if the wind is blowing different durring that string, the Whole Group can shift off of POA by as much as an inch or more.
But the rifle and Load are still Sub MOA consistantly.
I never see the MOA or Sub MOA groups that people post including my groups that are Hitting Dead Center of the Target, which I would assume would be the POA.
A 2" group dead center of the target is IMO better than a Sub MOA group that is 3" away from the Bulleye or POA

[MG in MD]

Thanks for all this great info!

New caster, trying to work up a good load for 7.62x54r.
Any reason why the 314299 design would be better than the Noe 314-196-FN MX2-30H?

I know bc is not everything, but the bc of this design is significantly better than the 314299.


just looking for some guidance. I know I'll probably end up with both molds in time, but I'd like to start as well as I can.

thanks!

[leebuilder]

Thanks for all this great info!

New caster, trying to work up a good load for 7.62x54r.
Any reason why the 314299 design would be better than the Noe 314-196-FN MX2-30H?

I know bc is not everything, but the bc of this design is significantly better than the 314299.


just looking for some guidance. I know I'll probably end up with both molds in time, but I'd like to start as well as I can.

thanks!

I thought about this a while ago, I am glad I went with the 316202, bigger version of the 314299. 314196 might be a long for the beginner. I have had excellent results with the lee 185br in mosins.

[pacomdiver]

what is your recipe for the lee 185 bullet?

[tomme boy]

Lets see a 10 or 20 shot group. Then see if it is still SUB MOA. Not saying it can't be done, but very few guns are capable of it.

[MG in MD]

I thought about this a while ago, I am glad I went with the 316202, bigger version of the 314299. 314196 might be a long for the beginner. I have had excellent results with the lee 185br in mosins.

looks like the 314196 is only 25 thousandths longer. More importantly, what makes a longer design harder for a beginner?

[leebuilder]

I found seating depth was a bit of a problem, more so with tight chambers and throats. Some times stock seating dies will give you a bit of a head scratching. You will see.
be well

I will have to look at my notes for all the good loads, 33gr of 4895 is what i found worked in most of my mosins. My PU mosin loves red dot, again will refer to my notes. Good brass is hard to come by for 7.62×54R so i mostly reload for hunting and use j-thingys.

[Tackleberry41]

There are nice mosins out there. Ive had some clunkers, got 2 in a deal w ammo and other stuff. One was better used as a club, it keyholed any bullet you cared to try at 10 ft. The other shot good, but the throat was burned out. Handloaded it could shoot good, mosins have alot of extra magazine length. So I could push em out, but the ammo wouldn't work in anything else. I have a really nice hex receiver that shoots really well. And picked up a Fin mosin for $50 thats even better. I have some subsonic cast loads that will shoot cloverleaf groups at 25yds. Have some other loads I need to mess with when I have the time and weather cooperates.

[leadman]

I have shot some moa groups with my MN with the 314299 and the Lee 160gr SKS tumble lube boolit, both coated with Hi-Tek and Alliant 300 MP. I have on old Tasco 30mm 3X pistol scope in 22 rimfire rings on the bevel mount under the rear sight base.

[guicksylver]

Good Morning....H4064,AA4064,H4895,IMR4895 AND VARGET AS WELL AS OTHER POWDERS IN THAT BURN RANGE ARE EXCELLENT POWDERS FOR THE MN
WITH THE 311299.

START WITH 27 GRS AND WORK YOUR WAY UP UNTIL YOU GET THE ACCURACY YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.


MY SUGGESTION ON WHAT SIZE 299 WOULD BE THE 312299 (.302 NOSE) OR BETTER STILL THE 314299 (.304 NOSE),BOTH FROM NOE.

THE 314299 WOULD HAVE THE EDGE IF YOU ARE CASTING WITH ACCOWW +2% TIN

I ALSO WOULD BUY A MOLD THAT HAS A PLAIN BASE AS WELL, WITH PISTOL POWDERS THE PB WILL SHOOT THE SAME GROUPS.
(IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME PICTURES LET ME KNOW)

YOU GOT A GOOD RIFLE THERE AND GREAT SHOOTING BTW !