Who to have "magnumize" VZ 24 Mauser?

[aephilli822]

I have a Czech Brno VZ 24 that I want to build into a 375 Ruger.
I want to have the bolt opened up and rebarrel/rebore done and then I complete the rest of the work.
Has anyone had ER Shaw do any rebarreling/chambering for them?
Any recommendation as to who could do just the action and barrel and let me do the rest (stock, sights, etc)?
All advice, opinions, flames, or dire warnings of imminent doom welcomed.

[nicholst55]

ER Shaw could easily rebarrel and mod the action. Not sure if they chamber for .375 Ruger or not. I know a gunsmith who does excellent work for fair prices, and has lots of experience on Mausers. PM me if interested in his contact info.

[paul h]

Having built a few custom rifles on VZ-24's I'll caution you that you'll have more money into the project than a new factory rifle and end up with something built on a clunky old military action. Unless you want a single shot, in addition to opening the bolt and extractor, you'll need the feed rails opened up, the feed ramp worked on and a custom magazine made as mausers require the magazine to be made to the dimensions of the case for proper feeding. You'll also like want a new bolt handle, safety and trigger. The barrel, bolt, safety, d/t for scope bases, rail/ramp work and custom magazine is going to run around $1000 on top of the action, and not including bluing.

Here's a 350 Rigby I built on a VZ-24, and I did everything but chambering and fitting the barrel.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/evefiles/photo_albums/4/8/1/481101382/967102449_B84561A2F64AB13329D8A5CEBF2B052E.JPG

I won't build another custom mauser as I can buy a better factory rifle for less.

[tdoyka]

20+ years ago i owned a '98 mauser action only. i gave it to a gunsmith(has died a couple of years ago:() with a couple of "i want it this way"(he did alot of :roll:):bigsmyl2:. he bent/cut the bolt, drilled and tapped it for a scope and put on a timney trigger. we came up with a cartridge and then we argued how long a barrel could be(it was fun!!!). since we came up with the 7x57 cartridge, i said because where i hunt deer a 50 yard shot is about it due to the brush, it should be an 18 1/2" barrel. he says it should be a 22" while a 24" barrel should be the bee's knees. it took us about 5 or 6 weeks to come up with a 20" barrel. he put on a douglas premium barrel and then he'd to wait until the black plastic stock came in. he called me two or three weeks later and said he had it done but the stock wasn't what i had thought. it was a plastic stock(being a fiberglass or kevlar or...) but it looked like a wooden one. i fell in luv with it. fajen had done it right. i had a 3-9x swift put on it and it was ready to shoot. i figure that i have $700-800 into 7mm mauser about 20+ years ago. i've bought the rem m7 in 7-08 for about $450-500 at about the same time.

would i do a semi custom gun again? yep! the same rem m7, i have put on a 18 1/2" douglas premium in 7-08 and a timney trigger(i think it was?). the oringal barrel could only do a 1 1/2" at 100 yards. a timney trigger did only 1 1/8" at 100 yards, so i decided to put on another douglas barrel. (at the time i was accuracy driven type) the m7 now goes approx .3 - .4" at 100 yards(5 shots). both of my semi custom guns have been "given" to both of my boys.

yes i know that i could have gone cheaper, but wheres the fun in that!

'98 mauser
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/tdoyka/IMG_20160119_133559_zpsaxnhg9o4.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/tdoyka/media/IMG_20160119_133559_zpsaxnhg9o4.jpg.html)

[Harter66]

Malcolm Ballistic tool in Conway AR .
I have 3 . A 7x6.8 , 257 Roberts and a 358 Win . I can't make the 257 shoot over 2" with sensible loads . The 7x6.8 is fussy but it's built on a Carcano action with a 9.5 twist . As long as I do my part and assemble good ammo the 358 shoots an inch or less.
Pm for contact info.

[Texas by God]

ER Shaw will do what you want reasonably priced and excellent quality. Best, Thomas.

[nekshot]

You can do what you want but I have a bunch of vz 24's I bought many years ago to play with in my retirement(which came quicker than I thought) and after all the work I have in them, going to a cartridge of those dimensions at todays prices would require me to lose the desire.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

ER Shaw did a 45-70 from a Siamese Mauser long time ago. Good work.

[Kosh75287]

It's not the equal of a .375 Ruger, but an inexpensive option would be reaming the chamber to 8mm-06. The round has considerable ballistic advantage over the 8x57mm (which is no slouch, to begin with), brass is no chore to find, and other components (especially projectiles) are considerably less expensive. Just a thought.

[paul h]

Another option would be the 9.3X62. Plenty of oomph, no need to open up the bolt, stock feed rails and magazine should work with perhaps just lengthening the mag and a touch up on the feed ramp.

[Hardcast416taylor]

A very simple yet popular cartridge change is to .338/06. Not much more than a barrel change is needed.Robert

[Harter66]

I suppose if a guy is set on the 375 cal I think there was a Whelen on the 06' case .

There is a 30 Gibbs ,that for description, was a deep reamed 308 to a case length of 2.5 . You could neck an 06' up to 40 cal then back down to 375 with a .300 long neck and a 45° shoulder fire form to the .460 shoulder and there it is all most as much case a 300 WM in 375 .

Our OP however wants to put a 416 case necked down to 375 in a traditionally 473 bolt face .

[Ben]

Getting the VZ-24 to feed the cartridges from the Mag. box is going to be tricky at best.

Ben

[EDG]

Just find a Sears, Montgomery Wards or other 1950s or 1960s FN Mauser with steel bottom metal with the bolt face that you want and a decent stock and have it rebarreled with a stainless barrel.
You will not need bluing, drilling, welding, fitting of a new safety or any of that other wasted cost. If you want you can put a M98 or CZ bolt sleeve on it with a Mauser type safety or BRNO 21 safety.
If the FN is not exotic enough find an old BRNO 21 and use it. They are wonderful rifles from the land of the VZ 24.

[aephilli822]

Sorry for the late reply.
Thanks for all the info, guys.
The 375 "need" has been filled with a Savage Alaskan Brush Hunter.
9.3 x 62 is a great idea for the VZ 24. I see CZ makes the 550 FS in 9.3 x 62 also.......:cool:

[Von Gruff]

Just keep in mind that feeding issues have a specific formula to get it right. I have C&P this from another forum with authorship atributed to Tileyman (Australia)

I originally wrote this article for our club magazine, pulled together from a few sources including Ludwig Olsen's Mauser Bolt Rifles and De Haas' Bolt Action Rifles... hope you find it useful!
Many thousands of Mauser 98’s have been rebarrelled to a multitude of modern cartridges very different to the original 7.92mm German military chambering.
While some of these conversions feed reliably from the magazine, many do not!
The fault often lies with the magazine and follower profile if it is left unaltered from the original layout.
Paul Mauser was a gifted firearms designer who carefully designed each magazine of his M98 rifles for a particular cartridge.
Box and follower dimensions were predicated on case dimensions... Paul figured that a staggered column would enable more cartridges to fit into a given magazine well than a single vertically stacked column.
In order to feed correctly from a staggered magazine, each cartridge needed support... from the magazine box on one side and a cartridge or the follower on the other side and underneath. With a stacking angle of 30 degrees, three stacked cartridges in contact would form the corners of an equilateral triangle:
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Mausermagazinestack2_zps030f2677.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/Mausermagazinestack2_zps030f2677.jpg.html)
By multiplying the Cosine of 30 degrees ((0.866) by the case head diameter, then adding the diameter to the product of the equation, the correct magazine box width could be determined.
For example, a 9.3x62mm case measures 11.95mm across the rim.
So 0.866 x 11.95 = 10.35 +11.95 = 22.3mm
Theoretically, that is the correct inside rear magazine box width for any cartridge deriving from the 9.3x62mm case.
However, all cartridges taper, and so must the magazine.
The same formula yields the proper box width at the point of shoulder contact:
The shoulder diameter is 11.45mm
So 0.866 x 11.45 = 9.92 + 11.45 = 21.4mm
A magazine box for a 9.3x62mm cartridge must therefore theoretically taper from 22.3mm to 21.4mm. Adding an extra 0.07mm ( 0.003") or so for dirty or oversized cases makes practical sense.
So a practical magazine box for the 9.3x62mm cartridge would taper from 22.4mm to 21.5mm
A magazine box designed for one cartridge works for others ONLY with the same identical front and rear diameters and the same span between them. Triangles between cartridge centrelines get steep when the box is too narrow, and rounds tend to cross-stack.
Paul Mauser also relieved the box sides slightly, from just ahead of the cartridge base to just behind the shoulder, so there would be no increase in friction between the case body and the box wall.
He lavished equal attention on the magazine follower, which on an original M98 mirrors the box taper.
The width of its lower shelf matches that of the case, with a 61 degree step between the upper and the lower shelf.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/SectionedM982_zps93a62b3a.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/SectionedM982_zps93a62b3a.jpg.html)
The top shelf is high enough to touch the next-to-last cartridge without lifting it off the last round in the stack (its half a diameter above the lower shelf at base and shoulder) The follower has a slope to follow case taper and keep the cartridges level in the box.
Side clearance of the follower to box is also critical.
Followers should be about 1.5mm (0.060") narrower than their boxes so they can wriggle a bit... especially important for the last cartridge.
A magazine follower for our 9.3x62mm example cartridge must therefore theoretically taper from 20.8mm to 19.9mm.
A magazine follower to fit the practical box above would taper from 20.9mm to 20.0mm
Floor plates that have been machined to hold the magazine spring tightly won't feed properly either... the springs are supposed to shimmy back and forth!
If the spring can't shuffle a bit as the bolt strips a round, it twists and the follower tips or ends up sideways... sometimes both!
Follower length is not as critical, but one that is too short will tend to 'dive' in the magazine box and cause misfeeds.
Many temperamental-feeding custom rifles have had some attempt at magazine alterations, often made on trial and error rather than based on sound engineering principles.
Getting a custom M98 rifle to feed flawlessly with a new chambering is the mark of a top-notch gunsmith who fully understands the ‘elegant simplicity’ of Paul Mauser’s original design.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/PaulMauser2_zps15001087.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/My%20rifles%20stocks%20etc/PaulMauser2_zps15001087.jpg.html)

[dh2]

I do love the 98 Mausers and have built so far .338-06, 25-06 AI, .280 AI , and 9.3x62mm Mauser the 25-06AI is on a VZ-24 action and I have another VZ-24 action in the safe for another project, My worry about the .375 Ruger on the CZ-24 action or any 98 mauser would be the fact of the very high pressure for this round, I do agree that the only action for a dangerous game rifle for me is a 98 Mauser they is why I have commercial 98 Mausers in .375 H&H Mag and .458 Win. Mag. but for safety I would look in to expert advice about the .375 Ruger in a 98 Mause action, or look at buying a me Ruger rifle chambered for this round.

[Texas by God]

If you build a 9.3x62mm you won't want the .375 Savage anymore.....
I had a CZ550 9.3 and it was perfect.
Since you bought the Savage in .375 might I suggest building the vz24 in 8x57? Don't go with Shaw on this if you want a lightweight. Have fun!

[aephilli822]

If you build a 9.3x62mm you won't want the .375 Savage anymore.....
I had a CZ550 9.3 and it was perfect.
....!
"Had" implies past tense. If it was perfect, why do you no longer have it? Not trying to be argumentative, just if you found something more perfect I could skip that step. I've actually lately been seriously thinking the CZ 550 FS 9.3x62 could fill the role I was planning for the Savage.

[aephilli822]

The more I look at it, the more I think "sell the VZ 24 and buy the CZ550FS"
Prolly cheaper in the long run, definitely less hassle.
(or maybe sell one of the Turks and one of the Swedes and/or one of the Springfields....)

[LAGS]

Now you are starting to sound like me.
I start on a project, then find out there is almost exactly what i want out there on the market.
So i buy it, with the intention of selling off my project gun to finance the purchase.
But never get around to selling off the project gun, because I need something to think about for the next Project.
That is how I ended up with 120 guns in my gun locker.
But Keeping them around is inspiration to look deeply into what I really want or need.
Dont get me wrong.
Most of the project Guns get finished, but not always to what I bought them to build.
But many of them even being a perfect rifle, get turned back into another Project.
Aint this a Fun Hobby, if you can afford it ?

[aephilli822]

.....
Since you bought the Savage in .375 might I suggest building the vz24 in 8x57? Don't go with Shaw on this if you want a lightweight. Have fun!

Where's the fun in that? The VZ 24 is already 8x57. (besides, one or two of the Turks will probably stay 8x57)
Not really after "light weight", but Shaw doesn't show 9.3x62 as one they will do anyway.
~ 900$ for a CZ 550 FS, or 500$ for Douglas to rebarrel the VZ 24, then still have to do bolt, sights, scope mounts, stock, etc.
Sell the VZ (or a Turk and/or a Swede) for ~200 - 300 and I'm so close to price of the CZ 550 that you might as well call it a wash.......:?:

[Clark]

I have converted VZ24s to 7mmRemMag and 300WM.
1) open the lips
2) Open the bolt face
3) open the extractor
4) lengthen the magazine or buy other bottome metal

And of course bend/weld the bolt and drill and tap for scope and restock, etc.

All very easy compared to converting to 223.

[nekshot]

I have converted VZ24s to 7mmRemMag and 300WM.
1) open the lips
2) Open the bolt face
3) open the extractor
4) lengthen the magazine or buy other bottome metal

And of course bend/weld the bolt and drill and tap for scope and restock, etc.

All very easy compared to converting to 223.

For some odd reason I think your thoughts are very funny and true!!

[Texas by God]

"Had" implies past tense. If it was perfect, why do you no longer have it? Not trying to be argumentative, just if you found something more perfect I could skip that step. I've actually lately been seriously thinking the CZ 550 FS 9.3x62 could fill the role I was planning for the Savage.
I'm sorry for not replying sooner. A good friend talked me out of the CZ 550 just as I was getting into my .358 JES Rem 700. I would not hesitate to get another CZ in that chambering if I needed one. Bullet selection played a part in the process but basically he waved a Sako 22-250 in my face and said the magic words - Even Trade? If you get (or have gotten) the 9.3 please don't overlook Privi Partizan ammo/components. Bargain price; top shelf quality.
Best, Thomas.

[Texas by God]

If you read many of my posts the HAD word appears often! Hello. My name is Thomas. I am a guntradeaholic.

[JimP.]

I made a 358 winchester out of a model 98 action dated 1950 (last year for a 98 mil action). E R Shaw did most of the work for it, I did the Buehler safety, installed a Timney trigger and did the stock. Shaw did the barrel, installed it, drilled and tapped for Weaver scope mounts, installed new bolt handle and a mate blue of completed action .....looking at their website, all that for 588.00. Didnt have to adjust feed rails or magazine box. I wanted a 23 inch barrel. This rifle shoots extremely well. 358 winchester is a hellofa round....definitely a killer. JimP.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

You just need a gunsmith, not a basic parts assembler. The gentleman that does Mauser/OM 70 things for me knows how to use a file. He just finished up a switch barrel in 300/375 H&H on a mid-fifties FN Commercial Magnum action.

I have a VZ-24 in 404 Jefferys. The gunsmith that built it used the original magazine box. He was a 21 year old senior at Trinidad Gunsmithing School. Their graduation project is, or used to be, building a rifle. Something that would should showcase their talents and skills. Both metal and wood working. No slop it in and use the bedding medium (Marine Tex is the best) to hide the ineptitude.

Jim Kobe would be my recommendation for the metal work. He did the metal work for me on rebarreling and conversion of an OM 70 to 458 RUM.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

"Had" implies past tense. If it was perfect, why do you no longer have it? Not trying to be argumentative, just if you found something more perfect I could skip that step. I've actually lately been seriously thinking the CZ 550 FS 9.3x62 could fill the role I was planning for the Savage.

The 375 Ruger has a fair amount more Snort than the 9.3×62 Mauser. Tho it does run dang near neck and neck with the ,9.3×64 Brenneke. I've had a number of 375 Rugers. All the 20" Alaskan Rifle. My 9.3×62 M. Was a 20" barrelled CZ 550. And my 9.3×64 B is built on a Mark X action , with a PacNor barrel.
If you are going to be fighting heavy and dangerous game at close range . Alone ! Then the 375 River has the edge. But, for a general purpose big game rifle , its pretty hard to beat the 9.3×62 Mauser.
Let me say that my 64 is an accurate , easy shooting , lucky and successful , powerful rifle. It fits me very well . BUT !! What's the sense having a great rifle that brass is scarce and expensive.
Thats why I got a 375 Whelan Ackley Improved last fall.
I gave up 200 fps with a 250 gr bullet. However. There is still plenty of power for what I need the rifle for here in the Interior. I very much regret selling my 9.3×62 Mauser. And will replace it with a 20" CZ 550 in the same cartridge.
They can be found for between $400-600 . As to the metal work. CZ got it right . The Lux stock isn't my favourite . and will get replaced with a synthetic or possibly a laminate.

I was pushing a 250 gr Barnes X bullet , moly tumbled @ 2600 fps from my 62 . But that was probably a bit hot for a 20" barrel.

[aephilli822]

The 375 Ruger has a fair amount more Snort than the 9.3×62 Mauser. Tho it does run dang near neck and neck with the ,9.3×64 Brenneke. I've had a number of 375 Rugers. All the 20" Alaskan Rifle. My 9.3×62 M. Was a 20" barrelled CZ 550. And my 9.3×64 B is built on a Mark X action , with a PacNor barrel.
If you are going to be fighting heavy and dangerous game at close range . Alone ! Then the 375 River has the edge. But, for a general purpose big game rifle , its pretty hard to beat the 9.3×62 Mauser.
Let me say that my 64 is an accurate , easy shooting , lucky and successful , powerful rifle. It fits me very well . BUT !! What's the sense having a great rifle that brass is scarce and expensive.
Thats why I got a 375 Whelan Ackley Improved last fall.
I gave up 200 fps with a 250 gr bullet. However. There is still plenty of power for what I need the rifle for here in the Interior. I very much regret selling my 9.3×62 Mauser. And will replace it with a 20" CZ 550 in the same cartridge.
They can be found for between $400-600 . As to the metal work. CZ got it right . The Lux stock isn't my favourite . and will get replaced with a synthetic or possibly a laminate.

I was pushing a 250 gr Barnes X bullet , moly tumbled @ 2600 fps from my 62 . But that was probably a bit hot for a 20" barrel.

20" Savage Alaska Brush Hunter in 375 didn't live up to what I wanted it for (my fault, didn't research enough). So I got the CZ 550 FS in 9.3 x 62. I think it will do nicely as a graduation present. I'll just have to keep the Savage for me.....:groner:

the more I look at the 9.3x62, the more I'm thinking the VZ24 is gonna end up being one....

[aephilli822]

P.S.
is it just me, or is "setting" the 550 trigger fairly hard? I know I'm getting old, but it takes the same motion to release the safety on a Garand, and I have no trouble with that. :?:

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I've had several CZs and setting the trigger wasn't a problem. It is a little stronger push to set it than a Car and/M1A/Mini 14 . but I never had a problem with it. But, it does take a good push. Most of the time I just shot them unset .
If I had kept mine, it would have got a real express sight rear , banded front sight and a synthetic stock. And probably a full CerraCote job . But thats it. Sure do miss that rifle and the ability to make brass from about anything.

[FrankG]

I made up a 375-06 on a FN Mauser 98 with no problems which comes close to a 375 HH . I also made up a 375-338 on a VZ24 with very little monkeying around with feed rails to get it to feed . The 375-338 will duplicate the 375 HH yet feed through the VZ action .

[aephilli822]

I made up a 375-06 on a FN Mauser 98 with no problems which comes close to a 375 HH . I also made up a 375-338 on a VZ24 with very little monkeying around with feed rails to get it to feed . The 375-338 will duplicate the 375 HH yet feed through the VZ action .

375 Ruger was the original idea, but the 9.3 is leading the pack now.