303 cast at long range

[Hayboy]

Hi all, has anyone any experience of shooting cast boolits in 303 at long range (300 - 900 yards)? A lot of what I've read on here seems to be up to 100 yards but is there any reason not to shoot out to distance?
My thought process is as follows -
1. There are no UK based suppliers of 303 fmj with a FLAT bottom bullet (I.e. Mk vii which by all reports suits 303 barrels better than boat tails).
2. The only way to replicate this and get a snug fit is to slug your barrel and then size cast accordingly with gas check.
3. That being the case you have something that should fit in the barrel (and grooves) well.
4. So the only limiting factor will be muzzle velocity (assuming somewhere around 1900fps instead of 2440 for Mk vii fmj) which can be compensated for by increased elevation? The black powder guys at Bisley shoot out to 1000 yards and they are only shooting lead....


Has anybody any thoughts or experience on this please??

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

[HollowPoint]

Greetings from Arizona HayBoy;

I have long since altered the original configuration of my No.4 Mk.I, but back when it still wore all the factory specifics I was able to get decent accuracy out to 300 yards. That's really as far as I ever tested it; and that was only after I had mounted a scope on it.

My targets were points on distant (dead) saguaro cactus. Shooting the 170 grain Lyman cast bullets I was able to hit close enough and consistently enough to my point of aim to make me happy. I wasn't really trying for bug-hole accuracy. I just wanted to be sure I could get a solid hit on a coyote out to 300 yards. Also; I didn't own a chronograph at the time so my estimate on the velocity of my cast bullets would be somewhere between 1600-1700 fps.

Given the criteria you've laid out, I see no reason why you can't do even better than that with a full length barreled factory Enfield. My barrel is now only 17.5" long and I generally shoot with a suppressor so, even though I'm now getting marginally better consistency and accuracy using those same cast bullets, I don't know how I would fare at distances longer than the 300 yards I tend to limit myself to. If I had to guess I think I may be able to lob my rounds on target with enough accuracy to keep me happy.

Depending on the size of the intended target, that may or may not be good enough for anyone else though.

Welcome to the forum.

HollowPoint

[curator]

Hayboy,

I have had reasonable long range accuracy using cast bullets in my CNo4,Mk1* Long Branch target rifle. The longest range I had access to then was 300 yards but I could get reliable 5-6" 10 shot groups from the bench rest as long as there was not a lot of cross winds. For the past 10 years, I have been limited to 200 yards but 3" groups are attainable with careful attention to detail. Real accuracy with cast requires bullet fit and correct hardness. I have been casting with a 210 grain bullet mould cut to match my rifle's chamber-throat, made by Veral Smith of LBT. I am casting with 1/3 Linotype, 2/3 clip-on wheel weight alloy, and water-drop quenched for a BHN of about 22. Gas-checked of course and lubed with LBT's "blue" lubricant. My "target" velocity is about 1850 fps using a very slow-burning military surplus powder (WC860)

A good resource for information on making cast bullets perform is Smith's book. Link to it here: http://www.lbtmolds.com/books.shtml

My No4 rifle is epoxy bedded and wears P/H No.5 rear sight which greatly helps with accurate shooting compared to using the issue sight. Accuracy with correctly made cast bullets is actually slightly better than commercial flat-based jacketed bullets and much better than jacketed boat-tail bullets although I can push them faster.

[Outpost75]

I shoot NEI clone of #314299 with 30 grs. of RL15 in my No.4 out to 300 yards with better accuracy than PPU FMJ. Beyond 300 yards back to 600 best results are with Sierra 174 MatchKing and 42 grs. RL15.

[Scharfschuetze]

I shoot NEI clone of #314299 with 30 grs. of RL15 in my No.4 out to 300 yards with better accuracy than PPU FMJ. Beyond 300 yards back to 600 best results are with Sierra 174 MatchKing and 42 grs. RL15.

Can't beat that Lyman or NOE 314299 or 316299 projectile. It's really a good long range bullet in the 303, 30/40 Krag or the 7.7 Jap.

For powders, I like SR 4759 with cast bullets, but the 303 is pretty flexible and many powders will work just fine. If you load to 1,800 to 1,900 fps, you'll have a fine long range load. 1,850 to 1,900 is seems to be a sweet spot for me in the military 31 calibres. It's a compromise between grouping ability and velocity but holds true in many rifles.

For really accurate long range shooting with jacketed bullets, I use the Sierra .311 180 grain spitzer with a flat base. It duplicates the Mk VII loading perfectly and the sights on my Enfields track very well with it at all the ranges out to a thousand yards. I use either brand of 4895 to do this.

I've used my No 4 (T) sniper rifle alongside M21 and M24 rifles at SOTIC train ups, and it will shoot with the more advanced systems to about 400 yards. After that, the superior optics and mil-dot reticles on the modern rifles leave it in the dust. The cartridge and rifle though are still very capable out to ranges many would consider "too far."

I also use an old A.J. Parker rear sight with a variable aperture on my Long Branch No 4 rifle. It gives me a usable amount of deflection (windage) to compensate for the wind at long range. See the photos below.

Here is one of the old war horses at work at long range in the Arizona desert this last summer. Old buckets, rocks the size of a bucket or any other target of opportunity doesn't stand a chance one the range is worked out.

[JeffinNZ]

I have had good success with duplicating Mk VII loads using cast. My bullet is a 175gr nominal from CBE in AU. I cast it in COWW with a splash of tin then heat treat them to 23 BHN. In order to get the bullet as close as perfect to fit in the throat I size to .3165 when installing the gas check then nose first the nose into a .312 to size only the front driving band. Load is 47gr of H4350 (AR2209) for 2370fps (only 60fps shy of Mk VII).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/316175100m.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JeffinNZ/media/Shooting%20stuff/316175100m.jpg.html)

[bouncer50]

The 1000 yard match with the old Sharp rifles. They used cast bullets and the trick to know your range and bullet drop. Heavy bullets are better for long range shooting. If you can keep all your shots on a 36 inch bull target at a 1000 yards you are a great shot. Its fun to shoot at long range but you burn a lot of powder and lead to find the right load and bullet weight for the range you want. My 45-70 Sharp i would have to shoot as i recall 36 feet above ground level to hit at a 1000 yards.

[leebuilder]

Greetings Hayboy. All my long range cast shooting was done years ago when I started casting and was less than perfect and have not been to our 800m range since. So I have been banging away at a 100m. Plus one on the 314299 and 316299 they are real performers, I have since purchased a NOE 316198 which has so far been better than the 316299. Maybe because I am a better caster now but from my testing so far has been a very good grouping boolit across a wider range of powder charges. It's spire point should pay off at range.
Be well and happy new year to all!!!

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Using a CBE 220gn boolit sized to 0.314". Problem with ranges over 300m is that I run out of adjustment in the rear aperature sight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/DC303_zpsb890b37f.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/DC303_zpsb890b37f.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/303Cast_A_zps70f4939e.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/303Cast_A_zps70f4939e.jpg.html)

[longbow]

I've been doing well to 100 yards but have not tested further so no personal experience to share on long range shooting. However, a few comments:

- so far I have had good results with IMR4227 (18 to 22 grs. under the 316299 @ 200 grs.) and IMR4198
- I found that if I pushed velocity I was getting skidding in the barrel so went to oven heat treated boolits as JeffinNZ suggests. Not an issue with light to moderate loads but may be if you want to approach 2000 FPS.
- My best moulds are a home made pushout mould that casts a 215 gr. boolit at 0.315" diameter similar in shape to the Lyman 314299 and the NOE clone 316299 that casts a hair under 0.316" using wheelweights. I size to 0.315" which will just fit in the throat
- a lot of good info can be found here if you have not seen it before: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article
- JeffinNZ wrote a very good article on accurizingf the Lee Enfield rifle as well: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?49003-303-Lee-Enfield-accuracy-article

One day I will get out and do some longish range shooting though locally the longest range we have is 300 yards.

So while I have not done it myself I am sure it can be done.

I hope there is something there that helps.

Longbow