44 WCF mold

[Trailblazer]

I need a proper 44 mold for my Winchester 73. I have been shooting the Saeco 441 but it is to heavy at 256 grains and is a SWC which doesn't want to feed. I am leaning toward the Lyman 427666, which was discussed recently in KirkD's thread, or the Lee 44-200-RF since the Lyman is available in 4 cavity and the Lee in six cavity. Has anybody used the Lee bullet and how did it do? Any reason to prefer the Lyman over the Lee or vice versa?

[Jon K]

TB,

Did you slug the barrel? What size is the breech end?

Are you going to shoot BP, Smokeless, or both?

Size matters.............

I have a Uberti '73 44-40, the breech end groove diameter slugs .4315. I tried Lyman 427666, and had leading issues with my bore size. Samples I got from a friend were ww(.4285) & 20:1 lead/tin(.427). I am now testing and shooting Saeco #446 it drops 25:1(.430) & ww+lino(.4315).The Saeco #442 TC will drop the same size, and should feed as well as the #446. I got the BP to shoot a group like your gun shot, and I am working on a smokeless load.
I got some samples of the lee 200 gr, and refused them, because I want to shoot BP & smokeless, I wanted a generous lube groove. The Lee grooves are a bit small I thought. I didn't even bother to check size.
Research all you can before you buy.................

Jon

[Jon K]

TB,

Here's target pic Saeco #446/ 32.5 gr Swiss 3F/WLP/.060+.019 wads.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l101/Jon_K_2006/DSC_0001-5.jpg

[Trailblazer]

I slugged it from the muzzle. Final measurement was .430". It was tight at the muzzle and then went to the breech with uniform but very light resistance. I am bumping the bullets I shoot now in a .431" size die. They don't bump uniformly-some are .431" and some a bit less- but still shoot very well. I will occasionally get one that chambers hard so .431" is my absolute largest diameter. That was with R-P brass. I just got a batch of Starline brass that seems to be a little thinner so that may take care of the tight chambering on the .431" bullets. Anyway it looks like something between .430" and .431" will work. My .430" size die is really .4295". I am going to lap that out and try .430" bullets too.

I will primarily shoot smokeless. I am going to shoot the levergun silhouette match with it and I don't think I will be able to maintain accuracy through 50 rounds with blackpowder. I will shoot blackpowder for grins so a bullet suitable for blackpowder would be good. The Lyman 427666 looks to fill that requirement. I tried 33 grains FFFG with an undersize Hornady lead bullet that is coated with a dry lube. What a filthy mess that made!

The odds of buying a mold that drops the correct size are about the same as the odds of winning the lottery. It happens from time to time but not usually. I always expect to have to Beagle or lap or whatever to get the size I need. Expect the worst and you won't be disappointed!

What range was that target shot at? Looks good!

[dubber123]

If you are shooting .430-431" boolits the Lee may work fine. The copy I have drops just at .431". It has shallow lube grooves, and even less of a crimp groove. The crimp would probably be OK, but the lack of lube might hinder any chance of making BP work well.

[GabbyM]

I've the 205gr. Lyman 427098 and Lee 200-rnfp here if you'd like to try them out pm me.
My Lyman mold drops a bullet from 2/4 alloy right at .430” and it's even round. It lacks a crimping grove so crimps over the front driving band. I only see it in two cavity moulds though.

You didn't say if you've an original 73 with small .427” bore or a modern reproduction with .429”.
If you've already got the Saeco handles they make a 200 grain 44 in .428 and .430 sizes. When you order one of the Saeco moulds you can be fairly sure it will show up cut within tolerance.

Photo is of Lyman #427098. It does not look like some of the drawings I've seen in catalogs.

[Trailblazer]

The 73 was made in 1916. It slugs as noted above at .430". Definitely not .427". Thanks for the offer of the bullets, but I need a bullet with a crimp groove for smokeless powder so the 427098 isn't suitable. I need to find my Saeco catalog to see what their bullets look like.

The appeal of the Lee is the price and the six cavities. I don't much care for Lee molds but I hear the six cavity molds are better. It might be worthwhile to get one just to shoot smokeless loads and find a different mold for blackpowder.

[Jon K]

Trailblazer,

The Saeco #446 crimp groove to nose is .291, it does cycle in my Uberti '73.
I seat above the crimping groove, using BP, I am also using .060 +.019 wads over the powder, this gave me better accuracy, as the #446 has a very thin base band. When I used only .030 wad, the accuracy was fair at best, I felt maybe the boolit was getting gas cut, so I added an extra layer between the powder & boolit. It worked...........Buckshot & 9.3 Al can verify. The group was shot @50 yds w/open sights(blurry) Some days the old eyes have trouble getting things clear,
This load shoots very clean, I was amazed just how clean it is. I shot 5 shots, wiped and checked, shot 15 shots, wiped and checked, then shot 40 shots, wiped then checked.........looked great and no leading, fouling was minor, could have kept on going. This was 32.5 gr Swiss 3F.

I started testing some smokeless, but had to quit, the lever safety spring broke, got a new one ordered(VTI).
I want to shoot this 44-40 on the Lever Action Pistol Ctg Silhouette, just once in a while, as my back up gun. I just got a 1894CL 32-20, I'm using now. It shoots great with the Lyman 311008/4.5gr Unique.

Jon

[Trailblazer]

That Saeco has the crimp groove in the right place. The bore on my rifle is rough. I am amazed it shoots as well as it does given its condition. It seems like the blackpowder fouling would be worse in the rough bore. But maybe not.

I took the rifle to our clubs silhouette match Saturday. The regular match director wasn't there and the substitute refused to set out the targets. They did set the 22 targets. I got them to put the full size swingers out and a couple of us shot the course on the swingers. Hit 9 chickens, 4 pigs(didn't have a good sight setting), 7 turkeys and a couple rams. I didn't have enough elevation adjustment to get on the rams. The rear sight has the slide you can adjust up and down but the screw is frozen. I have that soaking in Kroil. The one thing I wanted to know was whether the load would knock over the 200 meter rams. I didn't find out since we were shooting at the swingers. We use the soft set pistol silhouette course so I think the load will work but it would be nice to know.

I didn't get any leading but the powder fouling was heavy. The last five rounds on the rams seemed to be dropping more. Maybe the powder fouling was slowing things down? I may have to run a bore snake through it during a match to keep the fouling down. The muzzle had what looked like a grey lead wash. It must be from lead particles stripped off by the sandpaper looking bore. Anyway I was pleased with the results. Any day I can hit 7 turkeys with iron sights is a good day!

It feels good to resurrect the old rifle. The bore was rust red when I got it. Who knows how long it has been since it was shot. The red color is slowly disappearing and the bore is starting to shine a little. This is my new fun gun!