Rolling Block Carbine 50-45-400???

[Lostinidaho]

I just got a antique rolling block carbine. The barrel is a 50 cal. So I thought it must be a .50-70. A friend gave a .50-70 brass. Its way too long (.3"). But the .50-70 brass mics out to the correct dimensions. I saw a MidwayUSA video on YouTube for a .50-45-400. I am looking for cartridge dimensions. Any one have them. I did find one mention that the brass length should be between 1.25 and 1.30.

Any help would be appreciated

Have a Happy New Year

Lost

[elk hunter]

A chamber cast will tell you what you need to know.

My best guess would be the 50 carbine round: Case length 1.34", head diameter .565", rim diameter .660", neck diameter .536". This round is in "Cartridges of the World" 4th addition page 126.

Good luck.

[1Hawkeye]

Sounds like a .50 cadet the cases can be made from .50-70 government. If the bore is in good shape it will be a fun shooter. Like the other poster said you can get the information from cartridges of the world including loading data.

[Lostinidaho]

Made some cartridges went to the range. Good accuracy at 75 yards. Had some fun.

This site has been a great resource for all my projects.

183939

[bigted]

OK my curiosity is up ... What is the cartridge name and what is your load ... What is your "good accuracy"?

Interesting post ... Really want to know

[kodiak1]

That 50-45 was it not a cartridge the navy used?
I believe it was also the first military contract that Remington got from the US Government.
I have the Carbine and the Rifle..

[enfield]

Maybe it's just a 12mm Swedish rolling block, pretty close to 50-70 except for the length and the rim dia.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
If this was a Navy Carbine it will have an "Anchor" on the barrel top and should be one on the receiver right side.
Saw some factory made brass some where... Maybe Huntington ???
Mike in Peru

[Lostinidaho]

The receiver says us Springfield 1872 and on the side model 1871. The barrel ha no anchor mark or nickel plating.

Its a hoot to shoot 405gr sized to .510. 40grs bp.

At 75 yards I hit a 8 inch round steel target. With all 8 shots. Between work and miserable cold no chance to reload again. Maybe this weekend.

[Lostinidaho]

Had some more fun today.

Loaded up some ammunition.

405gr sized to .510. 35grs bp

Chrono Data
999.7
997.0
995.6
994.6
994.6

9 out of 10 shots hit a 10in plate at 100 yards

[John Boy]

A good read ... http://www.oldammo.com/january10.htm

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Sounds like you are headed down the road just fine.
You might want to work on your powder compression. Keeps notes on this as it will pay off. for compression you can use felt wads (best) cardboard, cereal box wads... Then there is corn meal, cream of wheat...
The goal is to find at what compression of the BP the load shoots the best. Compression does good things to BP. Too much can swell the case. But 1/16 of an inch is my starting place with these light loads and add to it.
Mike in Peru

[Col4570]

It could be a 12.7x44R.some have been modified to take both 50-70 http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/RemintonRollingBlockRifle5070Cal001.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/RemintonRollingBlockRifle5070Cal001.jpg.html)and 12.7x44R.This rifle will take bth Successfully.

[KenH]

Yea, but what brass are you using???? 50-70? As said before many of those Swedish 12.7X44R will accept a 50-70 case, while some will not take a 50-70 case without a tad of work. The rim of the 50-70 is a tad too large, and the brass won't fully chamber in some of the 12.7X44R chambers.

They're fun to shoot - just shot a few rounds myself and learning to shoot with iron sights again.

Ken H>

[Lostinidaho]

I am using .50-70 brass cut down to length. The rims fit fine. Diameter looks good and the thickness doesn't prevent the block from seating tightly.

I am assuming the barrel is a US manufacture because the action is a 1871 US Springfield. I think the Swedish barrels are metric threads because they were manufactured in Europe would not fit a US made action. Or at least that what I have been told.

The length of the brass is about 1.3 inches which is shorter than the 44MM of the 12.7X44R

[KenH]

I've got 3 of the Swedish actions and two of them are the standard 12 TPI square thread. One is a much finer thread which I didn't measure. I need to take it down again just to measure the threads.

It does sound like you've got a 50 carbine there - I'd never heard of that before (I'm very new at this). Here's a bit more info about what is most likely your round. http://www.oldammo.com/january10.htm

Ken H>

[Col4570]

Yea, but what brass are you using???? 50-70? As said before many of those Swedish 12.7X44R will accept a 50-70 case, while some will not take a 50-70 case without a tad of work. The rim of the 50-70 is a tad too large, and the brass won't fully chamber in some of the 12.7X44R chambers.

They're fun to shoot - just shot a few rounds myself and learning to shoot with iron sights again.

Ken H>
Yes my Rifle is stamped 50/70,I have some 50/70 cases,I also have 12.7 x 44r cases that are slightly shorter and the heads are smaller but engage the extractor.The 12.7 x 44R cases Balloon slightly just under the head but shoot as good as the 50/70s.

[KenH]

You actually have some 12.7 x 44R cases? WOW - that's neat. Are these original brass? BTW, do you have a measurement on the length of the 12.7 x 44R cases? I've got drawings showing 2 different lengths shown, from different books. One gives 1.703" while other sources give lengths up to 1.746" which seems too long. The 50-70 is 1.750"

Ken H>

[ndnchf]

Resurrecting this old thread.

Is anyone still shooting a .50-45 navy RB carbine? I just picked up one built from parts, not an original M1867 action. But it looks good and has a mint bore. I know Dixie used to sell these barrels. I'm sure someone built this up using one of these barrels. On mine the stud extractor was made with a very poor welding job. I ground it off, welded up the area and
machined a new extractor stud from it.

I've only shot it once so far. Used 43gr of 2F and a Rapine 350 bullet. It shot quite well at 25 yards.

[elk hunter]

I haven't shot mine yet. It too is made up of many different numbered parts. I need to make a proper firing pin and firing pin re-tractor and the lever and spring to hold the breech block closed. The barrel, like your's, is like new inside. With any luck it will be ready to shoot when the weather breaks about the first of April.

[ndnchf]

Mine is a bit of a mix too. It seems to have a home made firing pin, or one that was modified. But it does work. I put some pics of my extractor repair in the gun smithing forum.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?395183-Repairing-a-M1867-rolling-block-carbine-extractor

[ndnchf]

Here is my navy carbine.

[bigted]

Here is my navy carbine.

Oh crud ... man I need one of these ... thanks

[ndnchf]

Oh crud ... man I need one of these ... thanks

Lol - they are sweet. At 62, I'm getting to the point where I appreciate lighter recoil. The .50-45 is more comfortable than my .50-70s.

Coincidentally, the same cartridge runs in my centerfire model 1871 Springfield Spencer 2 band rifle. This rifle has a longer chamber than earlier Spencers. It took a lot of trial and error to figure that out.

[Lostinidaho]

I really enjoy mine. I am the original thread starter It took me awhile to figure out where it was shooting. But it was my first black powder cartridge.

I know mine is not original but I would like to figure out what it was before it was a carbine.

1) A Navy barrel and a Springfield receiver? I thought I understood that threading these barrel never aligned the same between two receivers.

2) A cut down rifle. But how did it get that chamber?

3) There was a few army rolling block carbines but they had a longer forearm. I really doubt this.

[rfd]

here is my ancient remington roller #1-1/2 .45-70 that may get rechambered in .32-20 and "carbine-ized" ...

https://i.imgur.com/d4tLHxS.jpg

[ndnchf]

I really enjoy mine. I am the original thread starter It took me awhile to figure out where it was shooting. But it was my first black powder cartridge.

I know mine is not original but I would like to figure out what it was before it was a carbine.

1) A Navy barrel and a Springfield receiver? I thought I understood that threading these barrel never aligned the same between two receivers.

2) A cut down rifle. But how did it get that chamber?

3) There was a few army rolling block carbines but they had a longer forearm. I really doubt this.

Can you post some good photos of your carbine, and any marks? Does it have the concave or flat breech block? Original navy carbines had the concave block. I'm pretty certain that my barrel is an original navy carbine barrel. It has a nice anchor over the chamber. It also has the original carbine rear sight. The action is a later type with the flat block ground to work with the barrel.

[Lostinidaho]

255925
255926
255927
255928

[ndnchf]

It has a Springfield m1868 rear sight. This was probably taken off the original barrel removed from that action. Do you have Hosmer's book on .50 and .58 cal Springfield rifles? It is a great resource. Yours looks similar but not the same as the model 1870 Springfield experimental carbine.

[toot]

WOW! KILLER ROUNDS. I want some of them to shoot in my REM. RB. CARBINE.

[labop]

I have one built up on a 43 Spanish action using one of the Dixie surplus Navy barrels. My favorite load uses 5744 and the Lyman 515139 350 grain bullet in 25:1 alloy. 40 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 has worked well too. The cases are trimmed to 1.30" from 50-70 brass. Maybe both are called 50-45s but the 50 Springfield Cadet and 50 Navy carbine cartridges are slightly different in length, the Cadet being a little longer.
labop

[toot]

what load of smokeless powder load can I use in my 50/45, REM. carbine?

[ndnchf]

what load of smokeless powder load can I use in my 50/45, REM. carbine?

I'm generally not a fan of smokeless in these early rollers. That being said, if you don't want to use black powder, I think Blackhorn 209 black powder substitute is a good compromise. It is essentially a bulk smokeless powder with a smoke agent added. It is non corrosive, clean burning and very accurate in many of my old rifles. The only downside is the price, but its worth it to me. My .50-45 will shoot under 2" groups at 50 yards using 27.0gr of BH 209 and Rapine 350 bullet.

[JoeJames]

Greetings
If this was a Navy Carbine it will have an "Anchor" on the barrel top and should be one on the receiver right side.
Saw some factory made brass some where... Maybe Huntington ???
Mike in PeruI had one ages ago, and pre-internet. Got 50-70 brass from Dixie Gunworks, and trimmed them. The barrel had the anchor on it. Loaded a few with BP and 50 cal. round balls. It worked.

[rfd]

what load of smokeless powder load can I use in my 50/45, REM. carbine?

If the gun is truly an original, real black powder only would be how I'd load for it.

For modern steel cartridge guns that can handle smokeless, such as a Henry S/S in .45-70, I load AA5744 smokeless powder as it is designed to work in these kind of guns, but with no fillers or wads or compression, and works well with very loose powder loads.

https://www.accuratepowder.com/faq/#section8

[toot]

what load of powder do you use, in the 50/45, BP, or SMOKELESS? I have a NAVAL CADET RIFEL, that I want to shoot. is there any other case that can be used rather than a 50/ 70 cut to length? thank you.

[Capt. Methane]

I'm glad that you had good fortune figuring out what you RB is...mine has been driving me nuts trying to cipher what it is!

[toot]

Lol - they are sweet. At 62, I'm getting to the point where I appreciate lighter recoil. The .50-45 is more comfortable than my .50-70s.

Coincidentally, the same cartridge runs in my centerfire model 1871 Springfield Spencer 2 band rifle. This rifle has a longer chamber than earlier Spencers. It took a lot of trial and error to figure that out.

at 62, just wait till you are 77+++. recoil hurts even worse!! but I will never become a 22 shooter because of recoil!

[OBXPilgrim]

Any idea of a price range they have seen those old 50 carbines (rolling block) for sale?

[ndnchf]

Any idea of a price range they have seen those old 50 carbines (rolling block) for sale?

Check Guns International, Gunbroker and the like for current $$.

[toot]

will they work in the reproduction SPENCERS?

[toot]

sorry I meant post #24? will they work in reproduction SPENCERS?

[ndnchf]

sorry I meant post #24? will they work in reproduction SPENCERS?

If you are referring to the .50-45s, no I don't think so.