Range Incident: Thoughts on what the problem may be?

[7Acres]

Long story short my father in law was putting a few rounds through my Kimber .45ACP Ultra Carry II. The slide locked back and he assumed the magazine was empty. He released the slide lock and the barrel came forward but failed to put the safety back on. He was admiring his tight group and I was standing next to him agreeing it was a good group. BANG! He shot the ground right between his foot and mine.

I have a light trigger and he apparently had his finger on the trigger. He concedes that he must have since the gun doesn't go bang unless the hammer drops. And I saw the slide lock back so we both agree on that point too. Apparently the slide locked back when there was still one round in the magazine. I've put thousands of rounds through this gun. It's my primary carry gun. I've never had the slide lock back unless the magazine was empty. Can you offer me some suggestions on what may have happened so I can find and fix the issue?

And finally, he has reiterated a few times already the standard rule that you always treat a gun as if it's loaded. I don't like learning lessons like that the hard way. Thankfully there were no injures.

[45workhorse]

The position of his thumb caused the slide to lock back even with rounds left in the magazinre

[shoot-n-lead]

The position of his thumb caused the slide to lock back even with rounds left in the magazinre

Bingo!

He pushed the slide latch up.

[smokeywolf]

Long story short my father in law was putting a few rounds through my Kimber .45ACP Ultra Carry II. The slide locked back and he assumed the magazine was empty. He released the slide lock and the barrel came forward but failed to put the safety back on. He was admiring his tight group and I was standing next to him agreeing it was a good group. BANG! He shot the ground right between his foot and mine.

I have a light trigger and he apparently had his finger on the trigger. He concedes that he must have since the gun doesn't go bang unless the hammer drops. And I saw the slide lock back so we both agree on that point too. Apparently the slide locked back when there was still one round in the magazine. I've put thousands of rounds through this gun. It's my primary carry gun. I've never had the slide lock back unless the magazine was empty. Can you offer me some suggestions on what may have happened so I can find and fix the issue?

And finally, he has reiterated a few times already the standard rule that you always treat a gun as if it's loaded. I don't like learning lessons like that the hard way. Thankfully there were no injures.

Thousands of rounds and the pistol has never done this while you were shooting it. Although I would do a very careful check of the gun and the magazine; put another couple of hundred rounds through it. The obvious condition that has changed was, someone else was firing the gun. For this reason, like 45workhorse, I would suspect your FiL's hand (thumb) position on the pistol while he was shooting.

I always do a visual check of the chamber and mag when the slide locks back on my 1911.

[The Governor]

Your FIL pulled the trigger and the Muzzel was not pointed in a safe direction.
All bets are on him doing something stupid.

[Artful]

Without examining the firearm all indications are it was the shooter. Both in locking the slide open while shooting and the N.D.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Does it have an extended slide release lever? Like this one?

183695
Click to enlarge.

[shoot-n-lead]

I always do a visual check of the chamber when the slide locks back on my 1911.

I always do it on any gun.

[pietro]

.

Lesson learned - I'm just glad that the two of you should live to see the New Year.........


FWIW, many shooters, relatively new to a 1911 (& other handguns) will grip the gun too high and/or move a finger (whatever), which will move something like the slide stop under recoil.(IOW, inadvertently)


.

[Pumpkinheaver]

The position of his thumb caused the slide to lock back even with rounds left in the magazinre
This.

[7Acres]

Hard to argue with that logic. He did some Googling on his cell phone and reported back that apparently 1911s have issues with slides locking back before they're supposed to. I looked at one forum post he showed me and I couldn't make the gun do what that post said causes that particular person's issue (the round pushed forward in the magazine and not seated against the rear of the magazine). That seemed like an asinine assertion to me.

Anyway, in looking at the gun just now the slide lock lever will rest and will not want to catch and lock unless something pushes up on it. Either the mag follower after the last round has been ejected or something external to the gun (operator's thumb). Is this correct?

Also, you guys would know... Are some percentage of 1911s known to "have this issue"? Or is it pretty much 100% user error and just ignorant people out on posting on the internet blaming it on the gun?


Your FIL pulled the trigger and the Muzzel was not pointed in a safe direction.
All bets are on him doing something stupid.

[Handloader109]

His thumb was under the slide lock and pushed it up. that's all........

[7Acres]

Does it have an extended slide release lever? Like this one?

183695
Click to enlarge.

Nope, don't think so. Here it is...

183700

[Artful]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0qe45Z8wfk

[7Acres]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0qe45Z8wfk

Haha! Love it! Couldn't agree more.

[B. Lumpkin]

Hard to argue with that logic. He did some Googling on his cell phone and reported back that apparently 1911s have issues with slides locking back before they're supposed to. I looked at one forum post he showed me and I couldn't make the gun do what that post said causes that particular person's issue (the round pushed forward in the magazine and not seated against the rear of the magazine). That seemed like an asinine assertion to me.

Anyway, in looking at the gun just now the slide lock lever will rest and will not want to catch and lock unless something pushes up on it. Either the mag follower after the last round has been ejected or something external to the gun (operator's thumb). Is this correct?

Also, you guys would know... Are some percentage of 1911s known to "have this issue"? Or is it pretty much 100% user error and just ignorant people out on posting on the internet blaming it on the gun?

Your Father in Law is searching for a place to lay the blame for his unsafe, and negligent actions. The blame is his, not the guns. Please have a polite discussion with him concerning safety rules. He could have killed you.

Treat, never, keep, keep.

[contender1]

I own one of those exact guns. I also shoot USPSA competition, and I am a CRO. Realize that the most likely cause will be operator error,, and it's EASY to accidentally allow the thumb to apply enough pressure to where the slide lock engages and yet there can still be rounds in the magazine or chamber. I've seen a lot of shooters,,, have similar issues in matches. Don't chastise your father TOO much,, but I too fall on the side of it being his fault.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

O.K.--just trying to help with a "shot in the dark." The kind pictured in my photo can engage themselves by recoil if fitted too loosely. Obviously not your problem.

[country gent]

It dosnt take much pressure to engage the Slide lock with your thumb and recoil can cause it also. A thumb to high under it and the pistols recoil work together to engage it. Several things here that should have been done. Pistol visually checked for clear chamber and empty mag. Slide locked back and mag removed when cleared, at most clubs around here now Open bolt indicators are mandatory. The firearm is open and mag removed this is then inserted into the chamber. My home club has lengths of string trimmer cords cut 10" long out for this use. and last the firearm was being handled during a "safe" time. One thing to get in the habit of is checking each others fiream for clear status when practicing. You both clear then he checks yours and you check His. The other issue here is Saftey was off and hammer was cocked and considered safe. He must have had a decent grip on it as he also had disengaged the grip saftey on this firearm. Alot of mechanicals would have needed to fail for this to happen otherwise.

[EDG]

There is no real sane reason to let the slide run home while continuing to handle the gun.
Operator error even if the gun malfunctioned some way. You don't need to let the slide down and then carry the gun down range.

I shot skeet for a decade and never saw one negligent discharge. In skeet the rule is the action is always open except at the firing station immediately before it is fired.
Anyone with a closed bolt or double gun action gets reamed.

[mnewcomb59]

I had this problem as I was working up hotter loads with the 200-rf. I had just gotten half way set up for super, so I was working up into +p powder charges.

The heavy 45 bullets have lots of inertia. That big bullet at rest wants to stay at rest, so when the gun recoils backwards violently, the top round in the magazine would slide forward ( actually stay where it was before recoil). The wide nose (actually the ogive, not the meplat) was catching the inside of the slide release at the magazine follower notch.

I bet your mag springs are old (thousands of rounds? 90% chance it is this) and/or you were shooting a hotter load than normal and/or had a wider nose than normal and/or your buddy limp wristed and allowed the gun to recoil more violently than normal. Get some new mag springs from Wolff, or better yet get the +10% magazine springs.

[stu1ritter]

As I was taught on Army pistol teams, when any pistol leaves the firing line, the gun is pointed "down range", the slide is closed and the trigger is pulled before the gun leaves the line. An inviolate law of safe pistol handling.

Stu

[Pinsnscrews]

A very nice gentleman spent a half an hour with me at the range when I was breaking in my very first 1911. In that half hour, he demonstrated how my poor grip technique was causing the 1911 to malfunction, especially causing the slide to lock back with a full magazine. I was holding too tightly with my right hand, and too loose with the left. The 1911 is also the first Semi Auto I have owned/shot that the first knuckle of my thumb lines up just under the slide lock. Any other and the slide lock either falls in front of that knuckle, or behind that knuckle where the soft meat of my thumb doesn't cause a problem. Fixed my grip to a proper technique, and mentally remember to keep my right thumb to the outside of the left and no more catching of the slide lock with it.

[wv109323]

It could also be a magazine/slide stop problem. The last round lifted the slide stop up stop the slide going forward. Was it a new or different magazine?

[fourarmed]

If he was shooting two-handed, it was probably him. If shooting one-handed, it was probably a combination of factors as a couple of recent posters mentioned.

[7Acres]

It is one of the same two Wilson Combat mags I bought with the gun 12 years ago. I agree with an earlier suggestion to replace the springs in them. Also, he was shooting two-handed. And I've run a couple mags worth since the incident and couldn't get it to have the issue.

How could I test if the last round lifted the slide stop?


It could also be a magazine/slide stop problem. The last round lifted the slide stop up stop the slide going forward. Was it a new or different magazine?

[Texas by God]

It is one of the same two Wilson Combat mags I bought with the gun 12 years ago. I agree with an earlier suggestion to replace the springs in them. Also, he was shooting two-handed. And I've run a couple mags worth since the incident and couldn't get it to have the issue.

How could I test if the last round lifted the slide stop?
Maybe just load two rounds and fire them & repeat. Personally I can FEEL the difference between the slide closing on a live round or an empty chamber. Your FIL had his head somewhere else.

[runfiverun]

I have never seen this happen.
or even heard of it happening.

[Uncle R.]

It is one of the same two Wilson Combat mags I bought with the gun 12 years ago. I agree with an earlier suggestion to replace the springs in them. Also, he was shooting two-handed. And I've run a couple mags worth since the incident and couldn't get it to have the issue.

How could I test if the last round lifted the slide stop?

I've had this problem with handloads when the cartridge OAL was significantly shorter than 230 gr ball. My fickle memory says the bullet was the 200 gr Speer "flying ashtray" but it was many years ago and memory really is fickle. The point is that a short length cartridge with a blunt, almost straight sided bullet did frequently catch the slide stop and lift it, in the same manner that the follower does on an empty mag.

The strange part is that factory Blazer ammo with that same bullet worked pretty well. I recall that I experimented with that load quite a bit including matching the OAL of those factory loads, but never did equal the reliability of the factory ammo. I finally abandoned that bullet design. I suspect the significant difference was in recoil impulse and slide speed.

Sometimes 1911s WILL lock open before the mag is empty, whether from operator error, spring problems or cartridge contour. It's all beside the point. Your FIL was guilty of major safety violations, first for not making dang sure the pistol was empty, and second for walking around on the range while carrying a pistol with the slide down, the hammer cocked and his finger on the trigger.

Stern words are in order.

Uncle R.

[Blackwater]

This is nothing more than another instance of that old bugaboo, "accidental discharge," or "unintended discharge" or whatever anyone wants to call it. Just heard Tom Gresham on the radio today coming home from lunch out, and he spoke with someone who's been to Gunsite numerous times, and they discussed Jeff Cooper's "4 Rules for Safe Gun Handling." Just about every single instance of accidental discharge can be prevented by these 4 simple rules, and any who are interested should be able to find them easily with a simple Google search.

We're human. We make mistakes. We take things for granted that we ought not. But we do it, and AD's happen. In every case, in my own past (there've been 3), it's been letting my attention fade from "the little things," and "BANG!" There ya' go! One more AD, and wearing a silly grin won't erase it whatsoever. It's good he had the muzzle in a "safe" direction, so that nobody was hurt. Sometimes I wonder if an AD isn't a good thing, especially for the more experienced among us??? It keeps us humble enough to realize - AFTER the fact, unfortunately - how crucial those "rules" for gun handling and practice really ARE, in the real world, and to our lives.

If anyone's ever been born who has NEVER let their attention drift .... well, all I can truthfully say is that "you're better than me." And to all those who haughtily say, "I've NEVER had an AD and don't INTEND to," I can only humbly and meekly add to that " .... YET!" It's a funny thing, but all the AD's I can think of but one, have been committed by experienced and avid shooters.

Fellas, not ONE among us is perfect, and if ya' ain't had one YET ..... just wait. You too will likely be humbled if you shoot often enough, and enjoy it fully. You may not LIKE hearing that, but .... well, just REMEMBER. It might come in handy some day.

And ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, keep that muzzle from pointing at another living thing that you don't intend to destroy. THAT is the MOST consequential of ALL the rules of handling firearms. It's the one that determines whether anyone is hurt when, not "if," they happen.

Now .... all you who havne't had one can tell me how full of it I am. But like I said .... REMEMBER!

[runfiverun]

I remember a boolit grazing past part of the palm of my left hand once.
it just whispered past but I felt it slide over the skin.
the trigger was never touched.
the cylinder was being closed on a single round...

[Plate plinker]

His thumb was under the slide lock and pushed it up. that's all........
Most likely scenario.
Operator error.

Have him grip the gun (without telling him why so) and see what his hands are doing.

[jmorris]

Improper hand position can cause the slide lock issue. If you have fired thousands and never had the problem, you grip the pistol better than he does.

I have also seen shooters engage the thumb safety while shooting too, again a "how you grip the gun" problem not a problem with the gun.

The AD was caused by not removing the mag before lowering the slide, (he should know better than to drop a 1911 slide from lock on an empty chamber but if he did, he would have felt what he was doing wrong) in conjunction with not keeping his bugger hook off the bang button until he intended to send a bullet down range or drop the hammer on an empty chamber with the firearm pointed in a safe direction.

There are people that kill themselves all too often with guns they assumed were no longer loaded. Then kill themselves in the same amount of time it would have taken to visually check and see if the firearm is loaded.

It is pitiful that the first thing far too many people do when handed a firearm is to put their finger on the trigger vs inspect the chamber.

[Alan in GA]

".....he apparently had his finger on the trigger." (Regardless of all that led up to the shot...... this is a no-no.)
I and many of my friends have 'proved' (discharged a firearm) this before, with other firearms. Not to judge him, just pointing out the ERROR and hoping he learns a lesson.

[fecmech]

Sometimes I wonder if an AD isn't a good thing, especially for the more experienced among us??? It keeps us humble enough to realize - AFTER the fact, unfortunately - how crucial those "rules" for gun handling and practice really ARE, in the real world, and to our lives.
Amen to that! I have a hole in my dresser from a .22 revolver that I didn't check the cylinder on before pulling the trigger. What a wake up call! That will really put the focus on safe gun handling.

[Love Life]

Unsafe gun handling. The gun did not malfunction, so it was a negligent discharge and NOT an accidental discharge.

I recommend your FIL read up on safety, and implement safety from this point on. Guns are not toys, and can kill stuff. I have no patience and no respect for people who can't practice firearms safety.

[ulav8r]

While I was in college, went home one weekend and heard about a fella 1 year younger than me, lived about 2 miles from me. He was in a service station in town showing of his 1911. Removed the mag and said it wouldn't fire with the mag out. He then stuck the muzzle against his head and blew his brains out.

My uncle returned from bird hunting and stood his A5 against the door frame on the enclosed back porch. That weekend, 4 or 5 of his grandkids were gathered around it when it went off. Luckily the muzzle was above all their heads but the #8 shot put a 20 gauge hole through the 3/4 inch pine decking and asphalt shingles.

While I was in high school, one of my dad's neighbors went deer hunting with his grown son. The son had laid his Win 94 on the floor of the truck. They got out and as the son pulled the rifle out of the truck, it fired and killed his dad.

Firearms require respect and responsible handling, they have no respect for thoughtless, careless, or clumsy handling.

[7Acres]

I had this problem as I was working up hotter loads with the 200-rf. I had just gotten half way set up for super, so I was working up into +p powder charges.

The heavy 45 bullets have lots of inertia. That big bullet at rest wants to stay at rest, so when the gun recoils backwards violently, the top round in the magazine would slide forward ( actually stay where it was before recoil). The wide nose (actually the ogive, not the meplat) was catching the inside of the slide release at the magazine follower notch.

I bet your mag springs are old (thousands of rounds? 90% chance it is this) and/or you were shooting a hotter load than normal and/or had a wider nose than normal and/or your buddy limp wristed and allowed the gun to recoil more violently than normal. Get some new mag springs from Wolff, or better yet get the +10% magazine springs.

This particular round is one I've run over 700 through the gun in the past few years. So not new, per se, and not +P. The projectile's profile is a tapered cone profile 230gr seated to an OAL of 1.2000".

I think you have something here with the mag springs. I will order new Wolff mag springs. I've got a couple new recoil springs I'll go ahead and replace that too just because it's probably time for that again as well.

[7Acres]

My word, what horror stories. Thanks for sharing not out of morbid curiousity, but to reinforce how seriously firearm safety must be taken at all times.


While I was in college, went home one weekend and heard about a fella 1 year younger than me, lived about 2 miles from me. He was in a service station in town showing of his 1911. Removed the mag and said it wouldn't fire with the mag out. He then stuck the muzzle against his head and blew his brains out.

My uncle returned from bird hunting and stood his A5 against the door frame on the enclosed back porch. That weekend, 4 or 5 of his grandkids were gathered around it when it went off. Luckily the muzzle was above all their heads but the #8 shot put a 20 gauge hole through the 3/4 inch pine decking and asphalt shingles.

While I was in high school, one of my dad's neighbors went deer hunting with his grown son. The son had laid his Win 94 on the floor of the truck. They got out and as the son pulled the rifle out of the truck, it fired and killed his dad.

Firearms require respect and responsible handling, they have no respect for thoughtless, careless, or clumsy handling.

[7Acres]

Amen to that! I have a hole in my dresser from a .22 revolver that I didn't check the cylinder on before pulling the trigger. What a wake up call! That will really put the focus on safe gun handling.

That story reminds me of the bed frame board I found left behind by the previous owners when we first moved into the house we now live in. It had about a 3" spread of birdshot embedded into it. I don't know the story behind that; but yikes!

[7Acres]

This is nothing more than another instance of that old bugaboo, "accidental discharge," or "unintended discharge" or whatever anyone wants to call it. Just heard Tom Gresham on the radio today coming home from lunch out, and he spoke with someone who's been to Gunsite numerous times, and they discussed Jeff Cooper's "4 Rules for Safe Gun Handling." Just about every single instance of accidental discharge can be prevented by these 4 simple rules, and any who are interested should be able to find them easily with a simple Google search.

We're human. We make mistakes. We take things for granted that we ought not. But we do it, and AD's happen. In every case, in my own past (there've been 3), it's been letting my attention fade from "the little things," and "BANG!" There ya' go! One more AD, and wearing a silly grin won't erase it whatsoever. It's good he had the muzzle in a "safe" direction, so that nobody was hurt. Sometimes I wonder if an AD isn't a good thing, especially for the more experienced among us??? It keeps us humble enough to realize - AFTER the fact, unfortunately - how crucial those "rules" for gun handling and practice really ARE, in the real world, and to our lives.

If anyone's ever been born who has NEVER let their attention drift .... well, all I can truthfully say is that "you're better than me." And to all those who haughtily say, "I've NEVER had an AD and don't INTEND to," I can only humbly and meekly add to that " .... YET!" It's a funny thing, but all the AD's I can think of but one, have been committed by experienced and avid shooters.

Fellas, not ONE among us is perfect, and if ya' ain't had one YET ..... just wait. You too will likely be humbled if you shoot often enough, and enjoy it fully. You may not LIKE hearing that, but .... well, just REMEMBER. It might come in handy some day.

And ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, keep that muzzle from pointing at another living thing that you don't intend to destroy. THAT is the MOST consequential of ALL the rules of handling firearms. It's the one that determines whether anyone is hurt when, not "if," they happen.

Now .... all you who havne't had one can tell me how full of it I am. But like I said .... REMEMBER!

Thanks for passing the advice along. I found the 4 rules here (http://thefiringline.com/library/safetyrules.html). I'm considering getting them printed out and laminated on some cardstock and mounting it down at the range out back. I think everyone, myself included, needs it in their face when they're shooting over here.

[tazman]

I had words with a young man(maybe 30) at the rifle range last week. He was standing between the tables(not a problem) shooting his AR at the closest target at our bench rest range. He had a 30 round magazine in and from the amount of shooting , it must have been full. I was standing behind my table 3 slots over getting some ammo out of my range bag.
After a lot of rounds(I didn't count) he lowered the weapon and began talking to his friend who was behind him. During the conversation he turned with the rifle still in his hands and carelessly pointed it right at me.
I got a little loud then and asked him to be more careful where he pointed his weapon. He said it didn't matter since he didn't have his finger on the trigger. That didn't go over well at all with me.
He turned back to his target and proceeded to fire the remaining 5 rounds from the magazine.
When he finished, I asked him what his name was. He refused to tell me and neither would his friend. It was my intention to report them and get him removed from the club for unsafe practices.
I should have taken a picture but wasn't thinking about that.
Fortunately, I have not seen him since then but I still may at some point.

[Blackwater]

You did GOOD Tazman! If they come back, you'll get another chance. Might get their tag # as they leave, too. Pointing a gun at another is a misdemeanor here in Ga., so the police might be able to help if you have similar laws in your area. Nothing in the law says there has to be any intention to shoot, or even intention to point it at someone. Only that it IS pointed at someone. If you have a similar law, it gives your words to these idjits some real teeth.

[ulav8r]

Forgot last night, but worked with a guy that was cleaning his 44 Mag S&W that he thought had been unloaded, using a towel to wipe it down. Removed most of an ear lobe and his ear rang for days. Have not had any contact with him since so don't know what continuing issues he might have.

Also met a man that was a boyhood friend of my dad. As a teen, he and other friends were hunting with my uncle, who was older. They had stopped to rest, he had rested the butt of his dbbl hammer shotgun on a log that had no bark, and had a hand over the muzzle. The butt slipped off the log and nearly 1/2 of one hand was blown off. He was in his 60's when I met him.

[bouncer50]

Public range too many people with no brains cause accident. Their was this guy who lean his shotgun on the side of his pick-up and the gun fell and shot a guy in the legs. Never go on weekend to public range to many careless people. The question on the 45 slide release i been shooting 45 for over 40 years never had a problem hitting the slide release with my thumb.

[7Acres]

I replaced the mag springs with new Wolff springs. Got a chance to put some rounds through it for a function check yesterday. I put 150 rounds through it with zero issues whatsoever. It was a joy shooting that gun as it always has been. This whole incident was definitely a good wake-up call to maintain vigilance on the range. Getting comfortable and letting your guard down on your home range shooting with people you assume can be trusted is never acceptable.

[Henry VIII]

Could be pic, but looks more extended than issue RR 1911.

186145

Here is a picture of INCORRECT technique. Note the high thumb. In 2 hand grip thumb should be locked down below the slide

186146





Nope, don't think so. Here it is...

183700

[BK7saum]

Could be pic, but looks more extended than issue RR 1911.

186145

Here is a picture of INCORRECT technique. Note the high thumb. In 2 hand grip thumb should be locked down below the slide

186146

Beg to differ....

[BK7saum]

Just an example,







http://www.handgunsmag.com/files/2010/09/hgcombatg_100206a.jpg Brian Enos, along with his good friend Rob Leatham, developed the straight-thumbs method of gripping a handgun that is the standard among serious shooters today.





Brand-new shooters don’t need a technique that allows the Nth degree of speed and precision; they need a technique that’s easy to understand and execute, that will swiftly give them a decent level of performance.





http://www.handgunsmag.com/files/2010/09/hgcombatg_100206b.jpg The thumb-over-thumb grip is not used by any top shooter; however, its easy “learnability” and execution by new shooters makes it an excellent first grip for beginners.

[Walkingwolf]

Pretty simple explanation, the Russians hacked the Kimber...

[Henry VIII]

Those of us with large hands find it also useful to lock left 1st finger around front of guard (as pistol in BK7's pic is set up for). Gives great place to lock left thumb onto as well as warning you if your trigger finger is too far through guard.
(I believe in 1st pad on trigger)

I believe BK's pic agrees with me. The soldier has his thumb way up, not at all like BK's pic. The locked down thumb could never activate the slide stop unlike the soldier's waving around in the wind.

[Eddie Southgate]

Pretty simple explanation, the Russians hacked the Kimber...

So now your saying it's Trumps Fault !:lol:

Eddie

[BK7saum]

Gotcha, I misunderstood which thumb you were referring to as being locked down. We teach support thumb pointed toward the target alongside the frame. I mistook your description as a revolver hold where the strong thumb is pinned under the left thumb. When I shoot my left hand is rotated forward so that the thumb is not pinned. But is further forward than my strong side thumb can reach

[BK7saum]

Regardless, I think the malfunction of the slide locking back with a round in the magazine was due solely to Shooter error with the slide stop being pushed up by the shooter's hand. The lack of inattention to closing the slide on a live round, having the finger on the trigger, and having a negligent discharge lies solely upon shooter negligence

[reivertom]

One more example why Muzzle Control is first in the "Ten Commandments" of gun safety.

[Plate plinker]

Could be pic, but looks more extended than issue RR 1911.

186145

Here is a picture of INCORRECT technique. Note the high thumb. In 2 hand grip thumb should be locked down below the slide

186146

UHHH thats a big negative ghost rider. Thats if I understand what you are trying to convey.
BY up to you mean towards the front of the gun? NOW I am trying to understand and getting confused.:veryconfu

Anyhow I like to grip high with thumbs pointed toward the target. I also grab the trigger guard with left index finger. When I was shooting a lot of matches it was common for me to get compliments on my gun control. (that makes one feel awesome)

[robg]

Mishandling aside ,check the gun is unloaded every time regardless and treat as loaded. rule 1 the gun is always loaded!

[35remington]

Given how notoriously weak the springs in Wilson magazines are, and given they are old, inertial misfeeding of the last round due to weak magazine spring tension is very likely. Wilsons also have poor round retention features and slick followers which does not help.

The described condition will leave the last round loose and lying atop the follower where it can be slapped home by his intentional tripping of the slide stop.

Moral: just because the slide is locked back does not mean all the rounds are gone.

[JWFilips]

In my book guns are on the firing line: If anyone walks down range to inspect a target..... the pistols stay on the firing line where the belong!