Malformed New 35 Remington Cases

[map55b]

Got an issue and looking for some feedback.

Without going into the long story, I built a 35 Rem in a M93. Head space is good and firing pin protrusion is .055". Rifle fires with reloaded R-P cases and new ammo from a major supply, no issues. However, with new brass from that same supplier, I am getting a very light primer hit and the cases do not fire. To my eye, the cases look to have a malformed shoulder. Brass was sent back to the suppler who is suggesting that my striker fall is too hard and pushing the shoulder back before the primer can go off.

With all due respect, I think this is absurd. If this was true why would the other cartridges work.

The tech with the supplier said that he was able to pop the primer on one of my cases with an XP100. My guess is that the XP100s extractor is able to hold the case close to the bolt face. My M93 has a large amount of clearance to aid with feeding, and feeds fine.

Case in the middle is new, the ones on the sides are R-P cases that have been fired and sized. What are your thoughts?
http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r566/map55b1/35%20Rem%20Shoulder_zpslnjpncu6.jpg

[square butte]

The rim thickness on the center case looks thinner to me that those on either side. Could just be the photo or my eye. measure a few

[Hamish]

Personally, I would (and do) treat new brass as fire form loads and run COL out to hold the case back.

[map55b]

Hamish: What is COL?

[frankenfab]

Cartridge Overall Length. He gave you good advice to get the most out of your brass, seating the bullet out to engage the throat/rifling to hold the case head against the bolt face. But you shouldn't have to do that to get it to fire. As far as the "tech" goes, he is blowing smoke. The best way to settle the argument would be with a case gage.

[fishnbob]

Cartridge overall length

[Guesser]

Hamish has the key; Ive used that technique a number of times with several different cartridges/calibers

[Scorpion8]

The two fired cases have a completely different shoulder than the center case. Both of my Marlin 336 .35 Remmies produce fired cases that look identical to your outside two. Even the factory ammo that I have on hand (Federal, Remington) look like the outside pair with regards to shoulder. I would guess that your extractor isn't holding the shell tight against the bolt face and that should angle is allowing the case to set forward upon striking.

[Kskybroom]

Hamis has it
It looks like the shoulder is bad....
It looks like the outside two had to much crimp??

[country gent]

Measure headspace and see where the sholders base measurement is at. and also check for proper angle. If all is good here depending on how short they are bullets loaded long to touch the rifling and hold case back will work or necks can be sized up and then necked back down to form a false shoulder to set headspace. It isnt the extractors job or function to hold the case back during firing.

[skeettx]

In a case like this (pun intended),
I put a SMALL piece of Scotch Tape on a part of the shoulder of the brass.
This will cause the brass to be firmly held against the bolt.
I then fireform the brass, and there will be a small dimple where the tape is but the brass
will now fit your chamber.
Remove the tape and at the next firing the dimple will be gone :)
Enjoy
Mike

[runfiverun]

it does look like the rim is thinner.
and the shorter shoulder measurement is saying you got too much headspace on the new cases.
you can do like suggested and use the boolit to hold everything back [a favorite trick of Ackley users]
or load the old fire forming load with red-dot and some cow and a federal pistol primer and fire them up in the air.

or one trick most don't like to use cause it's a little messy.
you can hydro form the cases in your reloading die by removing the priming stem from your die and seating a used primer in the case.
then lube and size the case in your press [without removing the case] and remove the die and case as one piece and fill it with water [the case] then slide a dowell in the top and set the base of the case down on your bench top and pop the dowell quickly with a hammer blow.
insert the die/case back in the press and remove the new case.
repeat until you have done them all.
you should have formed the case to the die.

it's easier if you have a shell holder without a hole in it since you can just run the lubed cases in the die and pop them and pull them.

[243winxb]

Striker fall is pushing the shoulder back before the extractor stops the cases forward movement. This deadened the strike.

Take a fired case. Measure head to datum. Put fired case, with used primer, back into chamber. Hit with firing pin, measure. If there is shoulder set back. Record measurement. Hit with pin again, measure.

Then you will know.

Seen shoulder set back with a Savage in 223. First strike, .006" set back. The 2nd strike set shoulder back even more.

I cut the shoulder off 3 brass and seated new primers. Placed rim under extractor. All 3 fired.

[beagle]

You guys got. Shoulder's set back too far. Had a friend that was using .35 Rem in a Contender custom barrel for silly wet shooting. He had all kinds of problems with misfires until he set the bullets out, fire formed the cases and used neck sizing afterwards. Problem went away./beagle

[map55b]

Beagle: I've tried to leave the manufacture out of my posting thus far. Can you tell me what brand of brass your friend was using?

[243winxb]

Firing pin channel.
1. Spring wore groove. On firing , it slowed pin. Reversing spring fixed it.

2. Burr in channel would drag on pin, causing intermitting misfires.. Fire gun upside down and it shot every time. Was returned to factory for adjustment. Came back with same condition. Unknow what customer did with it.

[popper]

new brass from that same supplier? It's either R-P or not. Just fire form them, then Fl size in your die that works.

[Blanket]

you can also neck up to 375 them back down leaving basically another shoulder on the neck set at crush fit on the bolt

[GRUMPA]

From the looks of it, they made the gauge dimension to dang short. If...and I mean "IF" you deformed them in any way there would be clear forming marks on the case itself. Generally shiny areas where the brass was newly formed, which....their isn't any signs of it.

Now I get a better understanding why the stuff I make is popular.

[runfiverun]

we are lucky to be seeing any brass from Remington. [I am starting to think they think so too]
and especially for something like the 35 rem.

[screwcutter]

This is interesting, I'm doing a Turk small thread in 35 also. I found a bunch of rem 200 corelocts at cabelas, & hornady brass some where.

[map55b]

Thank you all for your input. The brass in question was sent back to the manufacture who could not find anything wrong with it. I however disagreed with their conclusion, see the video if you want to know why. Other than our disagreement on the issue, I was pleased with their customer support.


https://youtu.be/tp0jb67gSfU

I did solve the issue by making a .400 expander that basically removed the entire shoulder and then sized the case in a standard die. This give me enough shoulder that the case headspaces and fires without issue.

[KenT7021]

I have some of the first R-P .35 Whelen cases as well as 100 .280 Remington cases that were made with the case shoulder too far back.I suspect that is not uncommon with R-P brass.

[map55b]

The case I had an issue with were made by Hornady, Remington.