Just Wheel weights lead ok for hunting boolits?

[Elbow]

Usually in my 3030 I cast 5050 wheel weight, pure lead. Now I have a 357 carbine and am wondering if I would be ok using just wheel weight lead to make the hunting boolit? Sorry if its a dumb question but Im wondering the difference, I've only done the 3030 before and I have a lot more wheel weight lead than pure. Thanks, Craig.

[TXGunNut]

I've been experimenting with pure WW's in a couple of hunting rifles, two deer in the freezer and very short tracking jobs this season. I think the 50/50 may be a better alloy but on our tiny S TX deer I'm not really looking for expansion. I think a big meplat has more influence than the alloy but I'm still gathering data. ;-) I don't want to go too soft because every now and then I want to anchor a big hog and sometimes that involves breaking major bones.

[shootsblanks]

Alot of guys here advocate 50/50 wheel weight and pure, i switched to 50/50 using clip ons and stick ons for hunting and found it preformed great, however the deer still died when i used straight acww and while i didnt recover the bullet, it did made a big hole on its way out.

[shoot-n-lead]

I am in the process of resolving this for myself. I know for a fact that the WW alloy will anchor them...seen it work on a pile. But, of late, I am thinking that a little expansion will work better at DRT...no run off. I hunt some places that if a deer runs 50yds...the recovery difficulty is greatly increased. We have only killed a couple of deer with straight WW bullets, that dropped at the shot, regardless of where they were hit (generally, we don't do neck shots)

Now, I may be chasing my tail on this...but I am going to try to get some better results.

[SSGOldfart]

You might need a little tin to help fill out your mold and go little heavy on your lube,watch for leading in your rifles.

[Thumbcocker]

Yes..

[richhodg66]

I only ever killed one with wheel weights plus two ounces of tin to a ten pound pot. One of the more dramatic kills terminal performance wise, but the deer was very, very close, like ten yards from the tree I was in. It did make a big exit hole with a lot of bleeding and the deer only went 50 feet or so. Bullet was an old Ideal 31141 from a .30-30.

Something to consider; while eating the heart from that one which the bullet had grazed, I found a sliver of lead. It was the only deer I ever killed with cast that I found a piece of the bullet in and it led me to believe the bullet fractured somewhat, so I took Larry Gibson's advice on the 50/50 and it hasn't done wrong by me yet.

[RP]

A big factor to consider is what rifle or pistol your using it in not a one answer ? for all casters. I have a 357 rifle and pistol the same round in the rifle is faster and the results on deer show how much the added speed helps. I was using a different rifle with cast to hunt with the speed was on the low end and using wws alloy the bullet went in and out very little damage. I did some testing on wet paper and found my bullets were not expanding at all. I put the rifle up and been working on rounds with softer alloy before I shoot a deer with something that is not up to doing the job.
So kind of what I am trying to point out is speed and size of bullet kind of dictate the how hard or soft your bullet needs to be for the best results. To fast and to hard they explode to slow and to hard they poke a hole in and out so I always want my bullet to expand. But that is my thinking and what I have seen in my experiments so far.

[runfiverun]

lots of good ideas so far.
my buckets have pretty much all come with about 3 parts clip on ww's and 1 part stick on ww's.
[well,, since they started using stick on ww's anyway.]
so I started mixing my alloy with that proportion rather than try to figure out what to do with a bunch of extra lead.
it's worked out pretty good up till now.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I only have 1 deer kill using ACWW. Using a 7 1/2" Blackhawk .44 Mag. with a RCBS 245 gr. boolet it took 1 shot at 30 yds on a fork horn. I don`t think he went 20 yards with the damage it did to him. Since then I have gone pretty much in all boolets with 50/50.Robert

[quilbilly]

I wouldn't be too committed to using WW's given that most liberal states are banning lead wheel weights. My experience from casting bendable lead fishing jigs to sell for the last 35 years has been that one batch of WW's will produce a nice product while the next would be so brittle that the jig would crack at the first attempt to bend. One batch could shoot well and be excellent for hunting while the next, not so much. Plumbing and roofing lead are more consistently pure so doing a 50/50 will probably give you a better and more trustworthy product over the long term.

[Bomberman]

The doe that I took this year with the 311041 was with water quenched WW...that's really all I use in my rifles. Small hole going in, inch wide hole coming out. So to answer your question, yes they work quite well.

[sixshot]

Here's what I've done for 50 years & it's worked pretty well for me, your results may vary. I'll start with what I use most often & that's 70/30. That's 70% WW's & 30% lead & I'm looking for about 1000 fps or slightly faster, it has to be accurate. If I need more speed I change to 80/20 & look for around 1100 fps, if I move up to 1200 fps I change 90/10 alloy. If I go beyond 1200 fps I use straight WW's, air cooled, again accuracy has to be there & I might have to "tweak" this a bit. When I go the other way "down" in velocity I use 60/40 WW & lead & I'm looking for around 900 fps, if I want 800 fps I use 50/50 alloy.

This has worked really well on moose, 11 elk, several bears, antelope, no ideal how many deer, small game, in Africa, Alaska, on my lion. Many, many hunters have used this alloy with the Miha 385 gr. bullet in their 480's & 475's to take came all over the world with great success & some bullets start out at 390 grs. & weigh 388-389 grs. when recovered from large Bison, huge feral hogs etc & expansion close to .8-1".

Not saying this is the way to go, saying this is the way I go & it has worked very well. If your alloy works for you, use it.

[geezer56]

Answer is: It depends. On boolit speed, shape, toughness of target, etc; Read blammers posts on his Whelen adventures. At 1900 fps. 50-50 is the stuff. Push to 2500 and you have to use COWW and water drop. I use 50-50 and run slow. The whelen or the 35 Rem. either one leaves 2 inch exit holes and really dead critters. Trajectory suffers but I hunt thickets so it don't matter to me.

[Paul B]

I've noticed that the hardness and alloy quality has changed over the years. I started casting in 1954 loading for the 30-30 and 30-06. For some reason never hunter deer with the 06 and cast but did take 15 deer with the Lyman #311291 and two more much later on with the RCBS #30-180-FN. Both bullets loaded to about 1900 to 1950 FPS (estimated). Deer shot, deer dies. I did recover a few bullets but most exited. Last really big batch of WW I bought was in 1973 and they cast very beautiful bullets with ease. No need for extra tin. A few years back I was given several very full buckets of wheel weights, so ran a batch of bullets for the .357 Mag. I still had some of the 1973 weights so I ran some bullets with it as well. Broke out the old LBT tester and it was very interesting. The 1973 weights had an average of 14 BHN according to the tester. The freebies ran at 10 to 11 BHN according to the tester. They needed a bit of tin to cast as well as the earlier batch. Both sets of bullets shot very well with the best groups coming from the newer batch of metal.
At my age, I seriously doubt there are very many hunts left. Probably most shooting I'll do now will be at paper at the range. Most of that will likely be cast.
Paul B.

[Markbo]

If sixshot says it, I believe it.

[dubber123]

If sixshot says it, I believe it.

Not many with his level of experience on here, and yep, he has the pics to back it up. I'd listen to what he has to say.

[jhalcott]

I have found that wheel weight alloy has changed over the years. It used to be about 14 bhn, now it is about12.Since I use both handguns and rifles, I use different alloys. For varmints with rifles ,linotype is used. For deer with revolvers a softer 50/50 ww/lead is used. With rifles on deer, straight acww is used for velocities around 2000 fps.

[tdoyka]

i've only killed two deer using a cast boolit, so take it for what its worth(i don't, but you can:mrgreen:[smilie=1:). last year, i shot a doe that was measured by a laser range finder , at 93 yards. i was using my 30-40 krag with 165gr ranch dog with clip on wheel weights that goes 1800fps. it went straight down and didn't run. this year i shot another doe at 20ish yards with my 444 marlin and a 275gr ranch dog with clip on wheel weights that goes 2000fps. it went straight down too.

both boolits exited, the 30-40 krag looked like a 1" exit, while the 444 looked around 3" exit. the 30-40 did go thru the leg/shoulder? and then it destroyed the upper lungs. the heart, while hit, seemed as if you had put a pencil thru it. the 444 just went into the deer, no bones(except for a rib or two) were broken. both lower lungs and the lower heart have been destroyed.

now i can do at length what bullet(nosler, hornady...) can do. i am a novice on what the cast boolit can/cannot do. so far, the boolits work good.

[Markbo]

And THAT is why I listen to sixshot! I could smelt, mix and cast 4 different alloys and make 5 different bullets out of the 4 alloys and shoot that many deer to get results. Legally that would take me 4 years. And that is for only 1 caliber!

Or I could learn from a few of the oldtimers that I really respect their opinions because I dont have the time left on Earth to test everything they have already tested first hand over the years.

If I can gleen information that is important TO ME and get just 1 or 2 great options per caliber I can do what I have time left to do. Hunt deer with 1/2 dozen different handgun calibers (I dont cast for rifles) and another 1/2 dozen rifle calibers that I reload for.

This is what separates us from other animals-the ability to learn from others experience. And I for one try my best to hang onto all those tidbits that interest me.

Thank you Oldtimers. I couldn't do it without you! :D

[jhalcott]

I test myy reloads for accuracy and penetration by shooting into bales of wet paper or phone books.I place the wet pack at the distances I expect to shoot a deer. It not perfect, but it does give me an idea of what to expect from that load.

[Don Fischer]

If you stop and think about it, if you could drive a round steel bearing out of a wheel hub bearing fast enough and put it in the right spot, ya got a dead deer.

[MT Chambers]

On very large bones from say Moose and buf. and bigger tougher game I would be concerned of the bullet fragmenting. With your ww's I'd add tin.

[sixshot]

Killed my bull moose with a Ruger 480 & a 370 gr. softnose cast, drove it clear through both sides & out at about 45 yds offhand. He went about 30-35 yds & down.

Dick

[Eddie Southgate]

Yes .

[Markbo]

I'd like to revise this very old thread for one reason: To see if sixshot will tell me if I am on the right path
I have taken your information about the .480 and though my bullet weight is very slightly lighter I am on the right path.

What about .45 Colt? Will these same mixtures/Percentages hold true for 27-300gr .45 Colt loads?

[Chad5005]

I to would like to know more about the 480,i have a mold on the way its 385gr flat nose and slightly liter hollow point,would a water quenched gas checked powder coated boolit work good for deer hunting or be to soft

[Duckiller]

To add perspective on deer running after being shot. My last deer was a reasonable sized doe that I shot from an elevated stand at about 40-50 yds. Used a 270 Win with a Nosler 150 gr partition bullet. Not sure of velocity but since I probably loaded it for my brother it was close to a maximum load, maybe 1-2 grains below max. Anyway shot her 30 minutes before sundown . Hit lung and nicked the heart before exiting at off shoulder. As soon as hit she started running flat out. She probably ran 75-100 yds before falling over dead. I was horrified when she started to run, afraid I had missed or had wounded an animal at sundown. When we dressed her out she had bled out internally. I have never had an animal run like that after being shot and Nosler partitions are supposed to kill instantly, which it probably did. The doe just took a while to realize she was dead. My brother has shot more deer than i. Nothern Michigan is better hunint area than Southern California. He has used 257 Roberts, 6.5x55 Swede, 270 Win and 7mmRem Mag. In his experience the 257 Roberts dropped deer fastest. All deer died when shot with any of his guns but they seemed to drop faster when hit with the 257. My hand loads were about the same as factory loads. In my family's experience an animals has to be hit exactly right to drop instantly, a somewhat larger area will kill most animals.

[sixshot]

Markbo, yes you are, I just used a 260 gr. Keith slug in my 45 Bisley last week to take a depredation doe using 18.5 grs of 2400, broke one front leg, got both lungs & an exit with that same 70/30 blend. Knocked her flat.
No need to water quench a gas checked hollow point bullet. You aren't going to drive it fast enough to lead & you're defeating the purpose of the HP by water quenching, just my opinion but we are taking moose, elk, bears, big bison, etc with this bullet with great success & almost always complete penetration. Once in a while we do recover a bullet with about 1" expansion & about a 380 gr bullet weight remaining.

Dick

[smoked turkey]

There are so many good responses to the question of ww or 50/50 mix as a hunting boolit, I don't expect to add much to the gene pool. But I will relate my experience over several years of deer hunting and one black bear in eastern Canada north of Maine about 175 miles. I have taken dozens of our 100-130# whitetail deer here in southwest MO using various calibers from .243 to 45/70 using air cooled wheel weights. I have almost always felt that the lowly ww did a good job for me. My shots aren't long by any means with say 50 yards about average. I have found our deer are not hard to kill using any of the calibers I have mentioned if the shot is placed correctly. Bear might be another story. When I was preparing for my black bear hunt in Canada, I took a little more care and did a bunch more practice with my 35 Whelen. I didn't want to go that far, spend that much money, and take any chances when going after something that could do serious harm to me if I didn't use the very best boolit I could construct. Naturally I wanted the quickest and most humane kill I could have on Mr. Bear. So that led me to conclude that a mix of 50/50 gave better expansion on wet paper packs as well as improved accuracy. So the quick answer to the question for me is that for hunting whether here for deer, or somewhere else for more dangerous game that 50/50 is the way to go. The game hunted deserves that kind of boolit in my opinion.

[Yooper003]

I am a big fan of Hi-tsk or powder coat , no matter what your alloy usually helps & have not heard of it hurting.

[Tripplebeards]

I wouldn't be too committed to using WW's given that most liberal states are banning lead wheel weights. My experience from casting bendable lead fishing jigs to sell for the last 35 years has been that one batch of WW's will produce a nice product while the next would be so brittle that the jig would crack at the first attempt to bend. One batch could shoot well and be excellent for hunting while the next, not so much. Plumbing and roofing lead are more consistently pure so doing a 50/50 will probably give you a better and more trustworthy product over the long term.

Yep get a tester. I made some spinner baits a few years ago before I got into casting. What ever I had went into the pot. I had 2 smaller spinnerbaits torn apart and the hook came off on two northern pike in a row. The fish were approx 15-18 lb...real hogs. I switched over to my bigger spinners and ended up recovering the hooks busted off in their mouths the next day.

As far as straight coww boolits I'd rather have some pure mixed for expansion instead of having a brittle boolit. I mixed 80/20 and added 12% pewter by accident a few months ago. It's tests at 15.4 BH and makes one heck of a mushroom out of ruger 77/44 at a full velocity charge which I'm guessing is in the 1850 fps range. It's harder than coww and stays together instead of fragmenting. The pure helps with elasticity and I believe the tin dose as well along with bumping the BH a few points.

If you check my home page I have pics of some mushrooms with different alloys I've tried. There is a straight coww with 2% pewter added. I recovered the boolit at 200 yards from a dirt pile. It fragmented and sheared off its hp pedals vs the 80/20 I shot at 10 feet into a tote of water that looks like a text book mushroom.

[OFFSHORE]

This was a good read. I'm falling in the straight 50/50 to 60/40 COWW and SOWW ratio mix and liking it very much. Maybe down the road I may try adding a bit of tin to the mix, but for now all is good in the 'hood for .45 ACP/LC .44 Rem Mag, 445 Super Mag and 30/30 Win

[waksupi]

I've used ww bullets on antelope, deer, elk, bear, and buffalo. They all die just fine.

[500Linebaughbuck]

i use COWW and a little bit(1 or 2%) of tin, for now. COWW is about gone but i have a mountain of "pure" lead. i do the 10 lead and 1 tin whenever i run out of COWW.