View Full Version : What is grace ?
I'm just rambling , hope I don't hack anyone off . I am always experimenting by asking folks in 'real time' simple things often sermonized or common talk among those that have or think they have faith . I am not the judge , I'm quick to recognize and admit to that . What I say here is a combination of 'BOAZ INTERPATION' not to be taken as gospel In our search (dang ! I hope you question and search !) Rabbit trails abound ! Topics deviate ! Exploration is interesting ! Yea I'm an Independent Baptist , fundamentalist . Some call us 'hard-shells' Some say 'primitive" LOL but I listen , I have the freedom to decide for myself . I may share but you need not accept .
I have been married twice . first to a Catholic . LOL , I'd a made a better Catholic than her . Helped at the KOC fish fries , went to mass when she wouldn't . Didn't plan on converting but tried to accommodate. Made a lot of friends . In the 90's I devised a plan for foster children to go to church . Worked with many birth parents and foster parents AND CPS in Texas to make it happen . These kids would never know the offer of GOD's salvation if they didn't go to hear it . Dealing with the different denominations was a real trip ! I conned , wedeled , I insinuated and ... well ..yea nearly lied to get them in church . I had a CDL so could chauffer them in church vans , had a hassle with many church's over driving THEIR vans (Independent Baptist driving a 'Catholic" van picking up kids and delivering them to Catholic church AND having to chaperone them while their because a 'foster parent' had to oversee their welfare . DANG it was interesting ! lol . Honestly , it nearly drove me nuts trying to make everyone ...comfortable ...when all I wanted to do was get em to church . As those of a certain church we think TOO much at times .
Just tried to set the start of many rabbit trails . What is GOD's grace ? What is it to you ? Is it when you say 'grace' before a meal , is it his forgiveness ? His love for you ? Is it just something in an abstract sense that he will forgive you ? Etc ? What is GOD's grace . I believe it to be important , very important . There should be many answers . Thought is good , perhaps there are many answers .
Ive already deleted a coupel of posts I'm going to chew on this for a while
LOL I understand ! I'll give you a little help . Don't think too hard because it's not a hard question . You already know the answer . It's meant to be simple .
A hint , most said verse on grace ?
Ephesians 2;8-10
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
DLCTEX
12-27-2016, 10:17 PM
The unmerited favor of God. It can't be earned, but is freely given to those that believe. Grace before a meal is a misnomer to me. I give thanks for God's provision and blessings, and call the food blessed to the benefit of my body.
Huh ! It is not of youself
it is not of yourself
least you should boast
for we are his workmanship
created in christ jesus unto "his" good works
which "god" hath ordained that "we" should walk in them
...........................?
jcwit
12-27-2016, 10:21 PM
Post #4 pretty much nailed it.
That's the word I was looking far " gift "
grace ( to me ) is his manny gifts. Internal life, nourishment, comfort, correction, direction, just to name a few
rl69 if it is a 'gift' why is it connected to 'good works' ?
Leslie Sapp
12-27-2016, 10:35 PM
Grace - Is when you get something you don't deserve.
Mercy - Is when you don't get something you do deserve.
God has an unlimited supply of both, and that's a good thing in my case.
GhostHawk
12-27-2016, 10:39 PM
To me it is a definition, we can not "earn" salvation, it is granted by grace.
We can not follow the law and be admitted into heaven. We will fail at some point.
We are not, and I believe most can not be good enough, pure enough, holy enough.
It is only trough God's gift of grace and the sacrifice of our LORD who died for our sins that we have a chance.
But I am no theologian, nor long time studlier bible if truth be told. I am a farm boy, self taught, and not taught all that well. So just my 2 cents worth, YMMV.
Good food for thought though.
Leslie that was well said, a perfect explanation.
LOL , always liked the old folks saying ...but for the grace of GOD go I .
Our good works please him. His love is not conditional of them
rl69 , James 2;17-18
Perhaps reverent ?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
DANG ! I love the book of James !
The unmerited favor of God. It can't be earned, but is freely given to those that believe. Grace before a meal is a misnomer to me. I give thanks for God's provision and blessings, and call the food blessed to the benefit of my body.
Good answer ! We do not deserve GOD's love or mercy . We are born sinners incapable of it . What is our common bond as believers ? one word .
1johnlb
12-28-2016, 02:17 AM
I've always heard grace preached as God's undeserved and unmerited favor, and I believe it, but that's not what grace means to me.
Grace is the fruit of God's love toward me. Which paid my debt in full loooong before I ever knew I had a debt. In hope that I might 1 day reciever Him through His Son by the Holy Spirit and come into a relationship.
Grace is a Heavenly account set up by the Father, paid by the Son and distibuted by the Spirit, which has no limit nor can it be exhausted.
Grace isn't something you say or recieve at the dinner table, grace is what we receive everyday all day and give thanks for at the dinner table.
The gospel of grace, is the good news.
Dang ! You guys are rollin ! Many good replies . Thank you !
Ickisrulz
12-28-2016, 07:29 AM
Having used the Amplified Bible extensively as a teenager, "Grace" will always trigger "God's unmerited favor" in my mind. A very good succinct explanation.
jmort
12-28-2016, 08:04 AM
I have been using the Amplified Bible for many years. For me it is profitable.
Hogtamer
12-28-2016, 08:32 AM
Thoughtful question. Seems to me that grace, forgiveness, mercy, and compassion all are synonymous attributes that point to the Divine nature, which is Love. "God IS Love." 1 John 4:8
Ickisrulz
12-28-2016, 09:33 AM
I have been using the Amplified Bible for many years. For me it is profitable.
It's a good one. It's unique being both a literal and free translation simultaneously.
Freightman
12-28-2016, 09:53 AM
Grace unmerited favor, Faith required for Grace, works is included as a faith response to Grace. Without works how is one to let his light shine? Good discussion, "seek and you shall find, ask and it will be given". If you live to be 100+ and study every day you will still only touch the hem of Grace. Isn't the Word of God amazing?
USMC87
12-28-2016, 10:53 AM
I came in a little late here but God's grace is something we know we could'nt earn but is a free gift given because of His great love and mercy toward us fallen humans. Grace through God given faith, There is a law and justice that has to be satisfied in order for us to have a right standing before God. By God's grace and mercy He placed his only Son in our rightful place, Jesus was the only sacrifice to satisfy God's requirement of being spotless and blameless or a pure undefiled sacrifice. God loved His people so much that He sent His only Son to die in our place. Yes it is unearned favor but through Christ we have been shown grace, What we could not earn Christ earned for us.
Freightman
12-28-2016, 10:54 AM
i came in a little late here but god's grace is something we know we could'nt earn but is a free gift given because of his great love and mercy toward us fallen humans. Grace through god given faith, there is a law and justice that has to be satisfied in order for us to have a right standing before god. By god's grace and mercy he placed his only son in our rightful place, jesus was the only sacrifice to satisfy god's requirement of being spotless and blameless or a pure undefiled sacrifice. God loved his people so much that he sent his only son to die in our place. Yes it is unearned favor but through christ we have been shown grace, what we could not earn christ earned for us.
amen!
Blackwater
12-28-2016, 01:14 PM
Boaz, you ask a very pertinent and central question. Most of us believers, I think, just use the word with only a minimal understanding of what it really means. We have some sense of it, but seldom have I ever heard it well defined. I think it might have been here in the Chapel when someone stated it was a "benefit that can't be earned," or something to that effect. And it's the very best definition I've ever heard. When I read that, it stopped me cold, and I kind'a chuckled to myself that I'd never heard it so well put, or thought of it myself. We miss SO much in our haste to process our thoughts as quickly and effortlessly as possible.
About a millenea ago and more, some "holy men" did noting in life BUT sit and consider the scriptures daily and VERY intensely and intently. These people were called "monks" or other things at various times. And they devoted their entire waking hours that weren't taken up in raising their own food, to studying, considering and copying down the scriptures. They sold their bibles to help sustain the group, and each was literally hand copied, and thus, very expensive. How'd you like to pay for your Bible if it were hand copied? How much would you have to charge if you copied one for sale?
Christianity has truly changed in many ways. The printing press made it possible for most people to have a copy of the scriptures for themselves, and that ain't no small thing! But in the process, and with the time available to most people being slim due to the necessities laid on it in making a living, and some reasonable time spent in refreshment, we have much less time to devote to reading and considering the scriptures, and this has given rise to all sorts of squabbles over the "true meaning" as many people perceive and process them differently.
Grace is, among other things, what God uses to forgive us for our self-concern in doing things like this. And what He uses to continue loving us when we are willful. It's what God uses toward us when we err in so many, varied ways. It's literally an "unearned benefit," given freely, and in SPITE of ourselves, rather than because of us. Grace is being with us when we don't deserve His love. It's using his guiding Hand when we don't even want it, and resist His efforts on our behalf tooth and nail. And yet, He still drags us, kicking and screaming sometimes, into the future, loving us all the way and all the time, in spite of our wicked, resistive ways. THAT ... is what Grace is to me. And it's taken me SO long just to realize what, once we understand it, should have been so self-apparent all along. It's just another way God uses to TRY to keep us humble, so we CAN receive His messages He sends us. We are SO callous! Grace overcomes that. And thank God for it!!!!
Just for clarification what is the one requirement to gain GOD"s grace ? The factor that gives all believers solidarity and unites us ?
I think the answer your looking far is faith. But the truth is there is no requirement. Jesus said all that God has chosen for me will be drawn to me. In epheshensepheshans Paul says says the same thing.I'm runing late I don't have time to look it up. Paul himself was knocked off a donkey by God and brought into the brotherhood
sorry I got to go see y'all in the morning. Sorry again for the hit and run post
Thank you rl69 ! You were right ....faith ! Thank you sir !DANG IT ! I feel another topic coming on ! lol
Revelation 3;16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
At the time of judgement grace has ended ?
johnson1942
12-31-2016, 08:10 PM
grace is a gift freely given and you can accept that gift or reject it.i chose to accept it, that was what i did. every one can accept a free gift or reject it. i like free gifts and i accepted the one God gave to the world.
I think the answer your looking far is faith. But the truth is there is no requirement. Jesus said all that God has chosen for me will be drawn to me. In epheshensepheshans Paul says says the same thing.I'm runing late I don't have time to look it up. Paul himself was knocked off a donkey by God and brought into the brotherhood
sorry I got to go see y'all in the morning. Sorry again for the hit and run post
I fought with myself not to comment , thus the time lag . What will grace without faith profit you ?
You asked what was required to receve grace. My answer is nothing is required. Grace is a gift given freely to whom God chooses. Paul is the best example of this he knocked of his donkey by a blinding light. From that day he walked with the lord.he didn't have faith tell after he was chosen In acts 1: we see the dicipels where chosen. It took them a good while before they had faith
the book of John speaks about this in length
John 6
43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered.44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last days
You are not saved if you don't have faith. The diferance between what you and I believe is just timing issue.
We had a song service today randy and sherry Miller.( I highly recommend them ) Randy gave his testimony. He family and friends where rabbit hunting,when Randy's cousin was shot and killed. Randy's cousin was a mighty man of God,he was bold for the gospel. A few days after the accident randy walked the aisle.he said he could hardly contain himself wating for the invitation .
I see randy receiving Gods grace given when his cousin was shot .and randy receiving that gift when he walked the aisle
Blackwater
01-01-2017, 05:56 PM
RL makes a good point. Even the 12 disciples themselves had to see for themselves that Christ was for real! Too often today, we believers sometimes (too often?) tend to look down on others who haven't come to faith .... yet. This is dysfunctional, because if Christ showed US grace and mercy, doesn't that mean we're supposed to show each other and unbelievers as well some of that same sort of grace and mercy when we err?
And when Christ wanted to illuminate one of his disciples, didn't he usually take them one on one to rebuke and correct them? Or at worst in that small group that they were? Some claim we ought to throw people out of the church that do things that seem clearly counter to God's teachings. I'm kind'a on both sides of the fence on that one. The smaller and more "exclusive" we make our little "clubs," the more we shrink ourselves, the less effective we become, and the more easily mocked we make ourselves. None of that serves Christ's purposes, though it might make US feel a little better and more "righteous." I'm afraid it tends to be the SELF righteous type, though. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" keeps coming to mind.
As Christians, we all too often tend to get lost in the scriptures, and forget the central mission - bringing in the sheaves. So the older I get and the more I tend to "get" of what Christ gave us to learn from, and learn how to enact more of His instructions, at least better, if not fully, the more I realize the value of grace and forgiveness in my own life, and the more I tend to give it to others. I learned long ago that when talking to someone who doesn't believe, the best way to do it is to simply not take offense when they challenge me or to be offended, but to just chuckle, and maybe ask them where they heard that question before. Then, when (and if) they tell me, I ask them why they trust that source, and why they think that source had no axe to grind in saying that. THEN, we can get down to a real evaluation of who one CAN trust, and who one can't, because they're just trying to defend their own denials. Once a dialogue is established, and I've shown some good humor in it, and acceptance of their argument, I can state my case, and the REASONS why I believe, and have faith and trust that my view is right and just and correct. I've never gotten a poorer response than those I see when folks just cite the Bible verses they know, and try to "power" win such discussions.
In the first place, citing verses our quarry doesn't believe in to start with, just really ain't very bright, folks! You've got to "hit them" where they're most vulnerable, and that's in their dogmatic devotion to disbelief. They constantly accuse US of being dogmatic, but nobody COULD be as dogmatic as the unbelievers! If you can just finagle your way to show them this, it CAN go a long way toward bringing folks to light that you'd never expect to come to it. Having learned that, however long and laboriously it's been in doing so, and however much "experimenting" it's taken to realize this, it just simply works better than anything I've ever seen or done in my whole life.
Just "hitting them over the head" with Bible verses they can't and don't want to relate to is so totally ineffective, that it was the first thing I ever noticed in how "witnessing" has traditionally been done. Even as a kid, I resented the "fire and brimstone" type preachers and sermons. How dare some preacher assume I had no interest in the Lord! Yeah, I might err often and sometimes badly, but I knew good and well where my heart was. I was a kid in Christ, just learning to walk, and thirsted for knowledge of my Lord! Even as a kid I knew this! And the fire and brimstone stuff became really tiresome and boring. I wanted LIGHT - illumination and understanding - NOT to be told how awful i was and how I was probably gonna' burn in hell! I sat through a lot of sermons, delivered by "old time" Baptist preachers who'd had little schooling in theology or the Bible or much of anything else, really. There were some really good and obviously very devout ones. But these were the more humble, thoughtful types, who really seemed to want to do the Lord's work, and like me, just kept trying new and different things to see how they worked, and what results they wrought.
All the best revivals Mom and Dad ever took me to were the ones who spoke of "hope" and "grace" and the constant search for light that we Christians are SUPPOSED to be seeking. THAT is when the most people went forward and made their professions of faith, or "rededicated" their lives to Christ.
It's said by the idjit psychologists that people gravitate toward pleasant things, and away from distasteful things. And that much, at least, they DO have right. What they do with that info sometimes makes me scratch my head in wonder about what they're really looking for, but that's another whole story. But in witnessing, folks will respond a LOT better and more uniformly (as these things go), if we just try to talk to them of why belief is so rational, and unbelief NOT nearly as rational, and the tremendous hope and promise that faith and trust in God brings with it. THEN, you've got a solid foundation to build on, in bringing them to light more fully. Mostly, we're just too impatient, and want our "conversions" to all be RIGHT NOW! This is OUR error. NOT that of the unbelievers'! How we've lasted so long with such ineffective approaches as we've often tended to use, is a wonder to me. The Grace of God maybe? I dunno. All I know is that if you deal with people AS people, and not as "concepts" or "constructs," we get, as ol' Monte Walsh said, "a more harmonious outcome."
That's what i've seen anyway, and it's taken me WAY too long to realize there's a better way to relate to those of unbelief, but at least, I finally found it, and for THAT at least, I'm truly grateful. I can be dense, and hard to teach, but God's will exceeds even my limits of knowledge and attention span! How truly I am that I've finally learned to really "pay simple attention" like I should have been doing all along! For that, I am truly grateful , and boy! Am I ever more humbled by it all! Almost makes me want to quote MLK, "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty! Free at last!"
We all have GOD's grace from the time he creates us . If you are reading this and don't believe in him...yes you still have his grace . BUT If you chose not to accept him through personal faith/belief in him the gift of eternal salvation expires as you exhale your last breath . His grace will be wasted , the offer of eternal life with him gone. It's a choice , he gave us freewill to make this choice .
Blackwater
01-01-2017, 06:20 PM
The best I've ever heard it put, Boaz. Thanks.
Alabama358
01-02-2017, 12:19 AM
Boaz,
I really enjoy your method of doing God's work.
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