Shortening model 94 magazine tube

[shootsblanks]

Hey guys, i was wondering if anybody had cut a win 94 magazine down to hold 4 rounds like the old sporting rifles? And if so, i have some questions;

My math is saying i would need a 12" magazine tube to hold 4 3030 shells, does this sound right?

Would i need to reinstall the front barrel band? Or would the rear band plus the screw at the end of the mag tube that goes into the barrel keep it secure?

I want to cut it down because i think it would be cool, and if i only cut the tube i can bring it back to factory specs with a new tube and magazine spring in no time at all.

However if i am happy living with 3 less rounds i could see myself shortening the barrel to 18" (i would prefer 16 like a trapper but yay canada)

[Ithaca Gunner]

You mean like the sporting rifle in the picture?


http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn179/krag1894/redfieldsight.jpg

This rifle originally came with half round, half octagonal barrel, half magazine, factory short shotgun type stock. That's the way it letters from Cody, but was a wreck when I bought it. It's mostly restored now with the exception of the magazine cap, I made one on a lathe, and it's aging now. My opinion is it's foolish to take a regular rifle and try to convert it to a light sporter. Here's why, the original barrel will have a large dovetail cut several inches behind the muzzle for the magazine ring, if a heavier octagonal barrel...it just wouldn't look right to begin with as most "sporters" were half round, half octagonal, with some round. The forend caps are different, (sporters have a web not found on regular forends) or if making a 2/3 magazine rifle, another dovetail needs cut to reposition the magazine ring, and a special magazine cap is used on either, (different for the 1/2 mag, 2/3 mag, and standard rifle, yes, 3 types of magazine caps).

Original half magazine sporters aren't really rare, and 2/3 magazine sporters like the Model 64 are not uncommon either. I would recommend just buying what you want, factory original and save a good plain rifle, and yourself a bunch of headaches.

[shootsblanks]

I was thinking more along the lines of this one i found on google, there is no dovetail only the retaining screw at the end of the magazine tube183629

[Omega]

Is it to just be legal in a 5 round max area? I seem to recall having a plug in mine in NC back in the 80s to be legal.

[pietro]

.


Whatever length the magazine tube is shortened to, please consider that for optimum feeding the magazine spring's free (uncompressed) length should be 150% of the length of the tube (a 12" tube should require an 18" spring).

When calculating how many cartridges the shortened tube will hold, besides considering the cartridge's OAL, the magazine spring's length when compressed should enter into those calculations (as should the thickness of the cartridge follower's drive wall, in the case of very close comparisons).

Through sad experience, I've learned that a button mag (ends at the front of the forend) requires a special forend cap & magazine end cap (which interlock to retain the magazine) in order to retain the magazine under recoil. (recoil is the deal-breaker, in magazine retention)



.

[shootsblanks]

Its not a legality thing, i think it looks cool, and it seems a straight fairly forward job, the rifle is a winchester model 94 ranger and from what i can tell has very little value, i thought it would be neat.

Pietro

Thanks! This is the kind of input i was hoping for, the calculation i did was fairly straightforward, 7 round mag minus the max length of 3 shells (comes to 7.65") and subtracted that from the length of the tube, it measures 19.25" long so that gives me a 12.10" mag tube. However i dont know where to start for the compressed length of the spring

[ReloaderFred]

For the compressed length of the spring (spring stack), measure the diameter of the wire in the coil, then count the number of coils and multiply the diameter of the spring by the number of coils. You'll want to add a little bit to that number, just to ensure the spring has room to compress.

Personally, I'd leave the rifle original, but it's your rifle....

Hope this helps.

Fred

[oscarflytyer]

buy a pair of replacement mag tubes and springs. Start cutting the test tube/spring back and experimenting with it until you pass the point of no return. Then take second one and cut it to PONR + 10%. All while keeping the original

[Texas by God]

I've done this. The groove for the front band screw will be visible and you have to drill a blind hole in the barrel for the mag cap screw stud. I suggest a post 64 for this and it does make for a neat sporter. Best, Thomas.

[shootsblanks]

Hope this helps.

Fred[/QUOTE]
This is one if the things that i was looking for, thanks!




I've done this. The groove for the front band screw will be visible and you have to drill a blind hole in the barrel for the mag cap screw stud. I suggest a post 64 for this and it does make for a neat sporter. Best, Thomas.

Awesome!

My rifle is a ranger carbine made in the late 80s, from what i gather they are the economy model and not highly prized.

How did it turn out? Did you find need to reinstall the front barrel band or did the magazine cap retaining screw in the blind hole keep everything together ok?
Could i bother you for a picturw?

[Hardcast416taylor]

I think you are thinking about the Model 64 with a short tube.Robert

[Ithaca Gunner]

Okay, I thought you were doing a rifle, sorry for the mix-up. A carbine would be easier, and I would try it on a, "down on it's luck" gun first if you can find one. I have seen some Model 1892-1894/94 carbines with less than a full magazine tube from the factory, never wanted one, but have seen them. I believe they were special light weight carbines if my memory is working right today, and may come in handy. I imagine it would be a fast pointer for quick snap shooting. A decent gunsmith should be able to make your dream carbine a reality with a minimal effort. Doing the same to a rifle is an entirely different matter though.

[WALLNUTT]

I shortened the mag tube on my 94 . I believe it is a "short rifle" 20" barrel. It was made in '71 or'72, one with the cast receivers It won't win any beauty contest but shoots fine and was $200. I took the tube off, hacked it off with a cut off blade in a grinder. I then shortened the spring a little at a time until it worked. the mag sticks out from the fore end a 1 1/2" or 2",no front band used, drilled a blind hole for the mag screw, and used the original mag cap. No problem under recoil and holds 4 rounds in the mag but I only load 3(seems like plenty).

[Buckshot]

...............I had a Marlin 1893 action from an old rifle with a toasted 26" octagon bbl. Sometime before I'd bought a NOS marlin 20" round bbl from GPC for something like $30. I couldn't use the original hand guard so had to buy a new replacement. Somewhere or the other I'd heard that Marlin had made some 'Lightweight' rifles and happened across some pictures of them. Seemed like an ideal design for my various Marlin parts.

http://www.fototime.com/E63EAA8DB98FAF1/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/097F1BE18C715E5/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/1E4724239E58BF0/standard.jpg

I had to use a .004" shim between the bbl & action to have it tighten and clock correctly. Once installed to the action I had to cut the dovetail for the front sight. This Marlin 'CS' bbl had 2 D&T'd holes for a screw on front sight base. The dovetail took care of one. The other was fitted with a screw that was eventually filed down and blued to fill the hole.

http://www.fototime.com/796D41814498BAA/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/44C96957E81EEFB/standard.jpg

The original rear sight from the old rifle was used. I shortened the magazine tube to utilize a dovetail on the underside of the bbl.

http://www.fototime.com/435AFA98778F794/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/15E8C0B315246B2/standard.jpg

Since it had been a rifle, it had a crescent buttplate that had a few splints and chips. I had a Marlin 'S' type buttplate so again I bought a piece of replacement wood and used the 'S' butplate.

http://www.fototime.com/72A8FA97FC3CDA9/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/E07F9A427741764/standard.jpg

This is what I ended up with. Not necessarily a copy of any Marlin, but a copy of a 'Type' that Marlin used to make.

................Buckshot

[shootsblanks]

Thanks for all the input guys! I went ahead and cut down the tube. i cut the magazine spring to be 6" longer than the tube. The blind hole at the muzzle measured .064 deep so i set the stop on my drill press, and marked the drill bit, and got .061, the screw didnt bottom out so i am not worried.

I made a handfull of dummy shells to 2.550"
And loaded 4 into the magazine, i tried a 5th and with moderate pressure it the shell would make it about halfway into the tube, just like with the the 7 round mag and an 8th shell.
All rounds loaded and cycled just as smooth as ever.

It feels like a completely different gun and its pretty cool, if i decide i dont like it down the road a replacement tube is 32 bucks on brownells and a magazine spring is 5.

Tools used were; miter box, hacksaw, a rat tail and a flat file (bevelled and deburred the cut end of the magazine tube) and drill press, although i could probably have gotten away with my cordless drill and a square.

Ignore disaster that is my table, kids + paint - supervision for 23 seconds

[WALLNUTT]

Your tube sticks out further than mine, probably why the fourth round is hard to insert. I installed a Williams receiver sight and a Lyman 17 in front. I like the rifle. Yours looks great.

[DanishM1Garand]

I have a Sears model 45, a Marlin 336, in .35 Remington. It was in rough shape and had no buttstock when I got it. The fore end has a cap and not a band.

After seeing yours it might get that treatment too.

I rather like it.

[pietro]

.

IMO, the conversion looks great !


.

[shootsblanks]

...............I had a Marlin 1893 action from an old rifle with a toasted 26" octagon bbl. Sometime before I'd bought a NOS marlin 20" round bbl from GPC for something like $30. I couldn't use the original hand guard so had to buy a new replacement. Somewhere or the other I'd heard that Marlin had made some 'Lightweight' rifles and happened across some pictures of them. Seemed like an ideal design for my various Marlin parts.

http://www.fototime.com/E63EAA8DB98FAF1/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/097F1BE18C715E5/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/1E4724239E58BF0/standard.jpg

I had to use a .004" shim between the bbl & action to have it tighten and clock correctly. Once installed to the action I had to cut the dovetail for the front sight. This Marlin 'CS' bbl had 2 D&T'd holes for a screw on front sight base. The dovetail took care of one. The other was fitted with a screw that was eventually filed down and blued to fill the hole.

http://www.fototime.com/796D41814498BAA/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/44C96957E81EEFB/standard.jpg

The original rear sight from the old rifle was used. I shortened the magazine tube to utilize a dovetail on the underside of the bbl.

http://www.fototime.com/435AFA98778F794/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/15E8C0B315246B2/standard.jpg

Since it had been a rifle, it had a crescent buttplate that had a few splints and chips. I had a Marlin 'S' type buttplate so again I bought a piece of replacement wood and used the 'S' butplate.

http://www.fototime.com/72A8FA97FC3CDA9/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/E07F9A427741764/standard.jpg

This is what I ended up with. Not necessarily a copy of any Marlin, but a copy of a 'Type' that Marlin used to make.

................Buckshot

That looks awesome! I generally prefer a 94 to a marlin but a slim forend really makes a difference


Your tube sticks out further than mine, probably why the fourth round is hard to insert. I installed a Williams receiver sight and a Lyman 17 in front. I like the rifle. Yours looks great.

My next addition is some type of reciever sight, how do you like the williams? I was looking at the xs sight


.

IMO, the conversion looks great !


.

Thanks!

As i said it was a pretty straight forward job, especially since i didnt need to notch the barrel for the front ring

[WALLNUTT]

The Williams that I have is OK. It does not have micrometer adjustment(clicks) so it is a little hard to slide the correct amount. It is however inexpensive and works fine once you get it dialed in but you won't want to adjust it for different loads as can be a PITA. You can spend more and get a better easier to adjust sight. If you're not target shooting but hunting try a glow type sight . They align really fast but aren't precise.

[shootsblanks]

99% of my shooting is offhand at cans and such wherever i feel like tossing them as i walk to the end of the sand pit and back, once it is sighted in for a load i stays there and i just figure out my kentucky windage for my round ball/subsonic loads.

Did you mean a globe front sight?

[WALLNUTT]

yes globe sight