NOE 311-202-RN--Mixed Feelings...

[BCB]

Just received that mold the other day so I thought I would give it try today…

I THOROUGHLY cleaned it with solvent and then hot water with Dawn detergent using an old toothbrush. This is the procedure I have used with every new mold I have…

Then , I broke it in as per the directions…

Using the same alloy (wheel weights and “some” tin) I started casting. The first 50+ boolits were terrible to say the least and I threw them back into the melt...

Finally I started to get some half-decent boolits but many have the wrinkle in them as shown in the pic. This was from the very beginning to the end of the casting. I cast from 600º to nearly 800º with the same results…

I also finally quit as the boolits simply would not drop from the mold without considerable beating of the handle hinge—a dozen or more raps with my wood dowel that I use to cut the sprue. I smoked the cavities so many times that I finally gave up...

Quit discouraging to say the least—I had high hopes as I have an NOE 279-124-FP and it performed nearly perfectly from the day it came out of the box…

Maybe some steel wool on a wooden dowel and turned inside the boolit cavities to help them drop from the mold a bit better?...

The dimensions seem good though. I sized the ones in the pic in a 0.311” Lee push-thru sizer and they are certainly large enough in diameter. Also, I measured the nose and they measure at 0.3015± so they will definitely “ride the bore” as they go through the barrel…

Any thoughts on the situations mentioned…

Thanks…BCB

[waco]

I would run a Qtip around in the cavities to check for any burrs. Do you use a hotplate to preheat your mold? Those boolits look to me like the "mold" was not hot enough. Your alloy at 700 or so should be fine. A hotplate helped me out a lot!
Also. Some AL molds need to be ran through a few casting cycles before they settle down. Don't get too discouraged until you give it a little time.
Waco

[Smk SHoe]

Give it a couple of heat cycles. Ive got two of his molds in 30 cal. took a couple of cycles doing the same think yours is doing. Ran it a little hotter than I thought it should be but it is throwing nice clean bullets now. one is the 155 HP and the other is the 230. I also treat my molds to a tiny bit of kroil oil once they are broke in.Bullets fall right out. Light coat once warm and then try to clean it out with a q-tip. Leaves a micro coat in the mold. Smells a little burnt the first couple of casts but then no problems. Have only coated them once in the cavity and been casting a lot for the last few months. Couple thousand each.

[TXGunNut]

Just broke in two new NOE moulds today. Even after my usual thorough scrubbing and three heat cycles it took a few pours to start getting good boolits. Haven't cast in a few months :roll: so it's likely my technique was a bit rusty. I keep my melt at an indicated 700-725 degrees on my Lyman thermometer for my NOE and Accurate moulds. I use a hot plate to pre-heat and keep my moulds hot when I take a break. My new 311041 seems to like to run a bit slower than many of my NOE moulds, the 379279 seems to like to run even slower. Towards the end of my session the moulds were dropping great boolits on almost every pour.
My point is that moulds generally have an ideal pour temp, mould temp and cadence. Looking at your boolits I'd say the mould was likely too cold and the pour may be a bit cool as well. If you don't have a hot plate a few very quick pours will heat up your mould but a hot plate is best. Most NOE moulds seem to prefer a rather rapid pour cadence, you don't have time to examine your boolits between pours. I generally pour as quickly as I can and cut the sprue as soon as it sets up. I'll slow down if the boolits get too frosty or the sprue takes too long to set up. If you don't have a thermometer I'd consider getting one, relying on the dial on the furnace can be frustrating.
Sometimes a new mould just refuses to cast good boolits in the first session. At times like these I move on to another mould or simply turn off the furnace and do something else. I don't know if it's a break-in thing or operator error [smilie=1: but the next session is almost always better.
Another thing: keep notes! Once you find the pour temp, mould temp and cadence a particular mould likes write it down! As you get more moulds (or more gray hair) these notes may keep you from having to re-learn a mould's likes and dislikes.
Hang in there, you'll figure it out!

[Yodogsandman]

That's some good advice right there^^^^^^.

Don't use steel wool on a custom aluminum mold!

[oldblinddog]

I've had the exact same issue with NOE molds, which are the only ones I have which are aluminum. This is a case of the mold being to cold as already stated, but more than that the sprue plate is too cold. Remember that the steel heats at a different rate than the aluminum. Heat the mold on the hot plate with the sprue plate down. Also, you can dip the sprue plate in the melt if it hasn't heated enough.

Personally, I prefer iron molds as they are much less cantankerous in my opinion. I have sold most of my NOE molds because of these problems with aluminum molds.

[mike69]

My noe 311-165 rf mold acted like that when I first got I cleaned with acetone while it was still warm and reheated again and didn't have anymore problems. I heat my molds on top of my pot sprue plate facing down normally get good boolits from first poor. I like noe molds just ordered three more had some on sale I've been wanting.

[Mr Peabody]

Do you ladle pour? I just got a 311365 from a member here that likes a ladle much better than the bottom pour. I struggle with the longer boolits filling out with the bottom pour.

[mike69]

I use a bottom poor lee 20 pot

[runfiverun]

you need to line up the sprue hole and shoot the alloy straight into it with a good speed.
no hesitating.
I would run the mold through two more casting cycles before I decided to do anything with it.
the heat cycles are okay but you need to run some lead through it to build up an oxidization level in the cavity's.

[Ben]

Mold isn't clean ( I know you say you've cleaned it ) .

[BCB]

Gave the ol’ second try this morning…

All that has been mentioned as advise I used, much of it I sort of already knew, but those who posted reinforced these tips that might make the mold work better…

I don’t have a hotplate so I turned a 6-inch cast iron skillet up-side-down over a burner on a natural gas stove I have in my garage where I cast. I lit the burner and the skillet got hot. I place the mold on it, sprue side down and left it warm up while my alloy was getting to temperature…

So, I figured the sprue was fairly hot and I got the melt up to 900º and poured a few. I figured this would heat the mold even more. I don’t know if the aluminum mold can be warped or not, but I really wasn’t too concerned after my first attempt with this mold yesterday. I turned the furnace off and I cast a couple of dozen. This got the mold hot and some of the boolits were looking acceptable. The melt got to around 800º or a bit less and I started casting…

Most of the boolits were acceptable although every dozen or so mold-fills I would get a couple that were not good as far as some wrinkles…

The entire time, the cavity side under the sprue plate block, the boolits stuck—terribly for the most part. I did smoke them with a Bic and that would help for a pour or two. I also used powdered graphite and that helped for a pour or two. They never quit sticking in the side of the block under the sprue plate…

By the way, I did put the steel wool to it yesterday and it didn’t ruin the mold. If it did, I can't tell any difference. The boolits fell from the mold at 0.3115” to 0.312” and they sized beautifully to 0.311”. I checked and sized a couple of dozen just too see…

I put the wool to it again today. If I ruin the mold, it is ruined. It took me at least 6 hours to cast about 12.5 pounds of WW, which equates to around 425 boolits. Never took that long with any other mold I have. If the aluminum one gets ruined, I will look for a steel 311299…

Yet, I have other aluminum molds—Lee to name a few—and they all work fairly well. I’ve made some pretty nice boolits with the Lee molds although, most drop boolits a bit undersized…

Oh well, the NOE 311-202-RN is back in the box and in storage until the next time. Hopefully it will improve a bit each time. Today was a bit better than yesterday. BUT, not as good as the NOE 279-124-FP—even on its maiden casting session a few years back. I sure got spoiled with it…

Thanks…BCB

[Yodogsandman]

Steel wool has oils in it. You're re-contaminating the cavities with oil.

[BCB]

Steel wool has oils in it. You're re-contaminating the cavities with oil.

Never gave that a thought, but I did thoroughly clean the cavities with solvent and hot Dawn detergent water, so maybe I got it all out...

I'll clean them again the next time I use the mold...

I do have a pretty good supply now...

Interesting was the fact that I have a 10-pound Lee pot that I just keep pure lead in. I cast the last 50 of the boolits today from pure lead. They filled out surprisingly well. Some boolits actually had no wrinkles at all and that is pretty uncommon for me casting pure lead. But the lead was over 900 degrees at the time of the pours...

Thanks...BCB

[runfiverun]

I would look at the design itself.
you have a squared off area there somewhere that is hanging onto the boolit.
I would look at the front drive band where it cuts into the lube groove.
that area might not have enough draft angle to let go of the boolit easily.

another thing that will hold them in the cavity is the sprue plate not being all the way open.

[TXGunNut]

Mold isn't clean ( I know you say you've cleaned it ) .

I've been known to give a new mould a second scrubbing with hot, soapy water and a toothbrush. Sometimes once is not enough.

[tomme boy]

You guys do know what brake cleaner is right? Use it. It works.

[yondering]

Never gave that a thought, but I did thoroughly clean the cavities with solvent and hot Dawn detergent water, so maybe I got it all out...

I'll clean them again the next time I use the mold...

I do have a pretty good supply now...

Interesting was the fact that I have a 10-pound Lee pot that I just keep pure lead in. I cast the last 50 of the boolits today from pure lead. They filled out surprisingly well. Some boolits actually had no wrinkles at all and that is pretty uncommon for me casting pure lead. But the lead was over 900 degrees at the time of the pours...

Thanks...BCB

Steel wool (especially the 0000 fine stuff) is excellent for burnishing aluminum, and taking tiny burrs out of molds, but remember to degrease it first. Same for a cold bluing job; degrease the steel wool with some form of solvent (brake cleaner, acetone, laquer thinner, etc) and use enough to wash the oils out, otherwise the oil stays in there.

I don't like to say anything bad about NOE because I respect Al and his business ethic, but I've had the same issues with my NOE molds, much more than with my other aluminum molds from other makers. I think part of it is the large NOE blocks and steel sprue plate requiring more heat, and sometimes venting too.

You can test for a venting issue several ways. First is to cast with the sprue plate loose. Another is to "beagle" the mold with small pieces of aluminum tape to space the mold blocks apart - your bullet dimensions will be larger, but if it casts well, you'll know the additional venting made the difference.

Just a comment on smoking the mold since you mentioned it several times - unlike some here I am a proponent of smoking when necessary, but it is not a mold release. It works well to help a troublesome mold fill out better, but does little or nothing to make a bullet drop easier from a sticky cavity. If it's sticking, you have to figure out what is hanging up, and deburr it.

You mentioned using steel wool but didn't say how - for aluminum molds I like to wrap a small amount of 0000 around a Q-tip head, and spin it in a cordless drill in each cavity. It's really difficult to damage a mold that way, and it's a great way to burnish sharp burrs off the cavity edges.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Another random thought. Make up a new pot of alloy and increase the tin added amount. I have found that all my aluminum molds from 3 or 4 makers all have a mind of their own on temp and procedure besides the alloy mix. I run my RCBS pot in the mid to upper 700 degree range besides using an old 2 burner hot plate for pre heat.Robert

[5Shot]

I run my only NOE Aluminum mold pretty hot. Melt at normal temp but cast really fast to keep the blocks hot. When the blocks are opened they almost jump out. This is one of his HP molds too.

[WFO2]

I had the same problem today with my NOE 5 cavity HG34 clone . I got mine to putting out good bullets by turning the lead up to 700 and really heating the mold on a hot plate . I'm used to Lyman steel molds and this is a different beast . Run the mold hot and fast with a generous spruce seemed to work for me . When they started to wrinkle I would put it back on the hot plate and grab another mold .

[longbow]

As said already... cast hot and fast. Pre-heat the mould until sprue plate lube just starts to smoke which is a bit hot for casting but is a good starting point. The first few pours will take a few seconds for the sprue to harden then the mould will cool a bit. keep casting fast and steady with hot alloy.

I have the same mould in 0.316" and it acts like a brass mould ~ likes hot alloy and fast steady casting to keep the mould blocks hot. If you keep the mould blocks hot you should have no trouble with stickers.

I cut the sprue while the alloy is still a bit soft then drop boolits out onto a soft towel.

It works for me.

Longbow

[BCB]

Well, I thought I would just follow-up on this topic I started so the thread doesn’t necessarily hang there…

The final boolits I cast at a quite high temperature--800°+ and most were good…

I continue to have the problem with the boolits sticking on the side under the sprue plate…

Before I put the mold away, I did use a bit of steel wool on a dowel to polish the cavities. I also cleaned the mold with brake solvent and then thoroughly cleaned with Dawn and hot water using a toothbrush. This is my normal cleaning method on all dies. I then put it on a hot water heating run in my house and left it dry completely…

Now we will see what the next casting session brings!...

Just a couple of comments on the boolits:

1. They are of ample diameter to size to 0.311”. That is what I am doing…

2. The front section of the boolit is 0.301+ so it fits the bore nicely. It won’t enter the end of the
Barrel so it probably actually grabs the grooves slightly…

3. I loaded some for my T/C Contender in 30-30 Winchester. It shoots amazingly well—actually
Better than the 311041 and it was very accurate. The 311-202-RN will rattle my 5.5”x11”
Steel at 250 yards from a good bench rest—I can’t ask for better than that…

Now, if it will just perform in my 30-40 Krag barrel I have on order from MGM…

Thanks all…BCB

[3584ELK]

I too have had issues with the first couple of sessions with NOE moulds. Nonetheless, as stated above, a couple of hundred bullets will solve the problems and you will be another loyal NOE customer. I only wish he carried more stock on hand...