Discolortion w/ Stainless Pins

[pt4u2nv]

Last couple of batches I ran thru my stainless tumbler came out really bright and clean but after letting them dry turned a really tarnished like gold color. It looks almost like they are tarnished or something but they are still extremely clean. I am using Dawn dishwashing liquid ( 1 Tbls ) Lemi-shine ( 1/4 Tsp ) with 1 1/2 gallons of water. Never had this change colors like this before....any suggestions. I did set them spread out on the floor on a towel in front of an electric heater to dry and am pretty sure they did not get that hot to discolor them as I kept rotating them till dry.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Discoloration can happen if you get a piece of steel cased or two mixed in or other ferrous debris that rusts.

[Nueces]

If it's dirt or other contamination, a cycle of just the pins with warm water and a cleaner like Simple Green would be in order. Always thoroughly rinse the pins after use.

If it's tarnish, some of us have had good results with using an auto liquid washing product that incorporates some wax. I use ArmorAll Wash'n'Wax as a second step after the Dawn soap step, and some others simply replace the Dawn with the Wash'n'Wax. This leaves a micro thin coating of hard wax on the cases, that you cannot see or feel, yet it protects against tarnishing.

[runfiverun]

oxidization.

[John Boy]

You have to change the burnishing solution with each cleaning. It's because of the foul in the cases from the cleaning. Don't change the solution cleaning black powder cases, the potassium sulfied turns the case to gray

[Baja_Traveler]

Chocolate brown cases from black powder - I've got tons of those! A second tumble brings them back to bright brass, but I don't bother...

Also - if you use well water or municipal water with a high mineral content you will get discoloring.

[castalott]

I agree.... clean your pins every time before use and add ArmorAll Wash'n'Wax solution. I tumble my pins alone with soap & then wash them clean with a hose...

[pt4u2nv]

Thanks for the suggestions I will try cleaning the pins themselves. Strange thing is they change color within a couple days but I will try the above suggestions and let you know the outcome.

[standles]

If you are using lemishine cut way back. That was the solution to my same problem. I also went from drying in the oven to a dehydrator. Between those two the brass now stays bright and shiny. I do not use any wash-n-wax in mine.

[Walter Laich]

the Armor-All or similar product will keep the tarnishing from occuring

I have yet to clean my pins since the initial cleaning

use 1/4 teaspoon of Lemi-shine
1 oz. Armor-All wash and wax
1 gallon tap water

after cycle pour off water through strainer
put pins and brass in RCBS brass separator and fill its tub with water
do 20 revolutions and put brass out on a towel to dry.

YMMV

have both dried in bright Texas summer sun and under a ceiling fan inside and don't get spots

[Moonie]

This is exactly why I switched from dawn to wash and wax.

[brassrat]

I must have not followed the discussions, well enough, and haven't used/found Lemishine but I have never seen cases go from real nice to never seen before colors. I been retumbling with rags, Scotchbrite pieces and now that I found my real copper pan scrubbers, I will try those. Maybe the limejuice is too much meaning TOO MUCH limejuice.

[mold maker]

The only time I experienced this, I found a plated (copper washed) steel case among them. it was the desolved remains of the steel case that formed oxide (rust) on the brass cases.
I washed the pins and reran the cases for the expected bright results.
Passing a strong magnet through the cases usually finds the steel cases and eliminates the problem. I place the magnet in the brass in a dry tumbler for a few minutes first and remove with any iron held fast. Then tumble as usual.
A friend had trouble with well water (high iron content) and had to use bottled water at .89/gal to get good results. The problem was the same, and eliminating the iron solved it.

[Steelshooter]

Rinse them off better.

[W.R.Buchanan]

It is called Rust or Oxidation. Maybe light rust, but it's still rust.

300 Series Stainless Steel doesn't rust unless it is contaminated with regular steel, like if you wire brush it with a Steel Wire Brush.

400 Series SS is magnetic and has way less nickel and chrome in it and it will rust if left wet for any length of time. The pins are rusting/oxidizing all the time when you are tumbling them, it is simply the action of the pins against each other that keeps them from looking like they are rusted. That oxidation process continues on after you stop agitating the pins and shows up as rust.

This won't hurt anything. It will come off as soon as you tumble them again.

The sole purpose of these pins is to agitate the dirt that gets softened by the solution you put in the tumbler. This action puts the dirt into solution with the water to be drained off at the end of the process..

Randy

[gloob]

Lemishine is acid. Whenever you use acid to dissolve off metal oxides, any tiny bit of residual acid you leave on the case will still be active. Air oxidizes the wet/drying brass, and the acid eats up another layer of it. This period of air drying is where overetching is more susceptible, because of the high availability of oxygen. If you up the lemishine your cases will go beyond gold and turn pink/rose, even, and this is the acid selectively removing one of the metals from the brass alloy faster than the other in the top few microns of the surface... I think it removes the zinc and leaves the copper but I can't quite remember what brass is right now, lol. The gold color is just the start of zinc leaching and the color of etched copper (a dark red/brown color) coming through. This is why cutting back on lemishine, more thorough rinsing with clean, neutral pH water and/or adding wax will solve the problem. Also, more thorough removal of the residual water before drying will reduce this phenomenon.

Another solution is to stop using lemishine, altogether. The mechanical action of the pins and the soap is probably good enough to clean away all the dirt and crud. I wouldn't go out of my way to remove the tarnish/oxides of the brass. Those add character. :) You can remove it, but eventually the brass tarnishes, again. Esp since with wet tumbled brass, you aren't actually polishing the surface. Leaving surface etched, unpolished, AND oxide free is inviting it to tarnish within days. Wax coating, meh. That doesn't last forever, either. Like a carbon steel knife, why not just make it clean and leave the patina alone?

[HeavyMetal]

Had the same issue, reduce the Dawn to 1/4 teaspoon or less 1/8 teaspoon for the Lemishine and do not let the case set in the wash!

Rinse with cold water ASAP when the timer shuts the machine off, rinse good the use your separator to get the pins out of the way then dry the brass.

Dehydrator's are a good idea and I am searching the thrift stores for one this week end, the trouble with to much Dawn is it leave a film on the case that is real tough to rinse off.

Dawn is a great product but when I cut it back it cleans just as good, rinse's easier, and no discoloration!

HM

[W.R.Buchanan]

Dawn is one of the, if not "the," most concentrated detergent on the market. The stuff is a serious grease cutter and a little goes along way. my wife uses way too much everytime she does dishes. One drop is enough for a complete sink load of dishes

People use it to clean Pelicans and Ducks that get crude oil on them, and it works pretty well, and I use it in my big tumblers in my shop to deburr Stainless and Titanium parts. When you tumble metal parts with ceramic media it literally grinds metal off the edges of the parts. The chips are kept in solution, or in my case, rinsed off in a total loss flow thru type of setup that keeps the stones clean and cutting. Dawn is the preferred lubricant for this operation. Been doing it for 30 years on the same Pint Jug of Dawn I bought in 1984.

Randy

[tankgunner59]

Glad to find all this info, I'm going to start using ss pins as soon as I can afford them. Thanks, you guys are a wealth of info, I love it here!

[Dieselhorses]

Try using 1 cup white vinegar, 1 quart of water, tbsp Dawn soap, tbsp salt with pins. Tumble for 1.5-2 hours. Put on sunglasses before looking at them. Also i made my own pins with 3/32 stainless welding wire. It's a little painstaking to cut up into 1/4-5/16" pieces but it's cheaper. Takes 85 3' rods to make 5 lbs.

[retread]

I had that same problem on one batch. The thing I did different from other batches was drying them in an oven @ 100 degrees. Turned them a darker bronze color. Think I will try my food dryer next time with the fan only.

[Cord]

I use as little Lemishine as I can......
Soldered a 9mm case to a wire handle for a scoop, and that is plenty for a load in my "B".
Just a small squirt of Blue Dawn, enough to make suds.

I rinse in the hottest possible water, usually three changes of water,
and rinse the pins too, once they are separated.

The Dawn removes the Imperial sizing wax, the hot water removes the Dawn.
and the hot brass dries much quicker after toweling than cold brass would.

Someone posted recently that
soaking the brass overnight in water before tumbling reduces the tumbling time to one hour.....
I tried that and it really works!

I wish I could remember who posted it, and give him the credit and thanks he deserves.
.

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

Try this instead of Dawn,makes a major improvement and they store better.
http://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/13507566?wid=450&hei=450&fmt=pjpeg

[LakeviewBulldog]

I agree with Buckeye Bandit on the Armor All wash and wax. Brass stays shiny for many months and the very small amount of wax makes resizing even easier.

[BRIARPATCH]

Just wondering if the OP ever resolved the problem posted here and have one other question.......from your post it seemed like you'd been using pins for awhile then all of a sudden this happened. Just curious to know if you figured out what caused it?