Lee melting pot broken?

[henry8734]

Hello all I think I may have broke my pot this morning. Was shaking it out while plugged in and it sparked, checked breaker, I still have power but machine is not working. I have heard of thermostats going out on these but don't have the experience to find it in guess lol. Here are pictures.

Also markings on this bar, came with all the gear, I'm guessing it's hardener?183217183218183219183220183221183222

[OS OK]

I see in the top right picture that the pot is pulled loose from the control box. That may have let the element inside short against the pot on the inside of the pot enclosure or even break continuity of the element.
I don't see any carbon arcing spots on the wires you picture there.

[runfiverun]

check that grey wire too I had to re-solder mine back on.
you'll also want to check the 'points' it's that little tab thing under the dial.
they get pushed apart or are let closer together by the dial, it lowers or increases the heat and sometimes needs a little tweaking.

[Hardcast416taylor]

If the offered `fixes` fail to make it work again, for what the 10 lb. pot costs toss this one and buy a new one.Robert

[Strtspdlx]

first thing first.. take a screwdriver across the two female spades on the center lug of the contactor. hopefully the pot is empty. make sure its plugged in. you should get some light sparks. and if you hold it long enough you should get heat in the pot. no sparks no heat, bad element, sparks and heat bad contactor. or switch assembly. the contacts are essentially points that you don't have to gap. spread them apart with some 320 sandpaper and clean them off if the heating element is good and retry without the screwdriver. the contactor looks okay so theyre the only thing the should be keeping it from making heat. a good cleaning means good contact and hopefully good heat if all else checks out well.

[henry8734]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161222/3e97a5c1d0991a3a2d69a2053ea95d20.jpg

[henry8734]

Ok so I'm thinking it might be a ground issue? I'm no electrician, but the pot works when I touch that wire to the side like pictured. But when I pull it off like normal and go to put back together it stops working....

[henry8734]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161222/faa3b4d074af2150d42526fcbe753137.jpg

[JakeBlanton]

Does that pot even *have* a ground? If the electrical plug just consists of the two vertical blade type connectors and no round one, then is does not have a ground. If so, then you are allowing the housing to provide a path for power to flow. Having 110V on your chassis is not particularly safe. In fact, it can be quite "enlightening". :)

Power on 110V AC circuits consists of "hot" and "neutral". You can still get shocked if you touch "neutral" in certain circumstances.

I can't really tell from the photo and I'm too lazy to open up my pot to see, but it *appears* that the chassis is providing an electrical path around the temperature control, same as if you just clipped a jumper wire across it.

[Dragonheart]

If you can't get it safely working look on the bright side as an excuse to buy an RCBS Pro Melt.

[Sasquatch-1]

First thing Get a cheap volt meter if you don't have to test the power. If you don't have power cut the cord off outside the case, get some new connectors and see if that fixes the problem. In your pictures that cord is really twisted up and is probably broken.

[henry8734]

If there is a spark wouldn't that mean I'm getting power?

[gwpercle]

Be careful , a jolt of 120 volt current is shockingly unpleasant .

[OS OK]

Yes but that pot is not grounded unless the pot sits on a metal table that is (then it's a short circuit situation through enough resistance that wouldn't allow a surge current large enough to trip the breaker)...all the spark means to me from what's been said is that the pot's metal cover has become part of the series heating elements circuit as it is configured. And it doesn't mean that the circuit is seeing the entire element, the element can be shorted to the pot somewhere other than the connections going through the wall of the enclosure.

[henry8734]

Gotcha, I will check it out and get back to you.... maybe it is a bad cord.

[OS OK]

If it were my pot, I'd tear that pot on down to where I can see the condition inside of the pots metal enclosure inside the pot...expose the element and assess that condition.
Only way it could be a bad cord where the neutral is broken is if the pot is sitting on a grounded table.
You pick that pot up in that condition while its energized and you are touching that table your gonna let it go damn fast.

This is an opportunity for you to repair that pot correctly and to last a long time. You need to purchase a cheap Harbor Freight multimeter so you have the opportunity to actually ring out a circuit and trace it's continuity and value at the same time...it ain't that hard.

What I see thus far is hit and miss troubleshooting and taking too many unknown values for granted...it don't make for very accurate assumptions so I don't put too much emphasis on what's been determined thus far. You have to, have to always see the entire picture when it's electrical.

[henry8734]

Thank you for the input, I do have a tester. I just don't really know what I'm doing lol.

[henry8734]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161222/23be04c36cfea51968da2ef1d998b841.jpg

[OS OK]

*You can set the multimeter to the continuity test, the diode and the symbol showing sound @ 5-O-clock on the meter.
*Touch the leads together and hear a sound it emits, my meter will display an arbitrary number too, and when the leads are touching that number will drop down to a small <10 number...it doesn't mean anything other than it dropping in value meaning there is some continuity there.
*Touch one probe end to one of the blades on the cord cap and the other probe to the wire where it enters the control box. You don't have to disconnect the wire from the circuit as you will not get any interference from the circuit (so long as you know which wire your testing in the cord set), you are checking for continuity in that length of wire in the cord itself.
One side of the cord has a rib moulded into the wire and it looks different than the other conductor, that's how you can identify it in the control box.
*If both sides of the cord set leading to the plug have continuity then you are good to go but...keep this in mind. Sometimes a wire will break inside the insulation at a 'strain point' (either at the plug or at the end where it goes into the control box at the cord grommet) Get someone to wiggle the cord aggressively back and forth while you are testing the continuity, wiggle the cord at these points I mentioned. If you have a broken wire it will interrupt the continuous signal you hear. [ Bad cord. ] The broken wire can make contact so long as it is not strained in a certain direction, so, it will work until the load it carries causes arcing inside the rubber sheath and finally separates the gap sufficiently enough to stay permanently open (not connecting, not touching inside the sheath).

Alright, if you are not confused try this and we'll start a series of test you can do to identify the problem.

Turn that meter off when complete and you won't pick it up accidentally and touch it to a hot circuit when it's in the wrong 'test selection' on the dial.
I've had so many meters get fried where one of my A class journeyman electricians have come back to the shop with their meters and a poop-eating grin on their faces and say..."After 30 years of electrical work, you ain't gonna believe what I did today!"
After the first few came in with the same story, I'd reply..."I dunnoh but I bet you need a new meter!"

[Soundguy]

I'd definitely expose that heating element too, looking at the areas it feeds thru as well

[henry8734]

Whoops hoo! Thank you so much os ok! I had tones on both prongs to the switch and also from both prongs to the two posts that go in to the barrel... now what?

[OS OK]

I can't find where anyone refers to that pot as being a 10 or 20lb. pot. It looks like a 10 lb. and older version perhaps but...it doesn't have supports under it going down to the base under the pot itself. I see the screws in the back of the pot between it and the control enclosure are pulled loose and...the pot looks to be leaning forward at it's top toward you when your sitting in front of it.
If my suspicions are near right, I think that when you were handling it to dump it you may have pulled those screws loose and caused a short somewhere along the element.
Now I have both pots here but I don't intend to open one up to trouble shoot yours so yours is going to have to be the guinnea pig. The front end of that pot needs to come apart to see and photograph the condition of that element and to determine the condition of the element insulation. Since I haven't been into my pots before I don't know what to expect to find...other than...wherever it sparked there will be carbon tracks on the inside of the area at the point it shorted, if in fact it shorted. I expect it did and blew one of the element connections partially open to disrupt the circuit.
I'm sure other fellas here that are monitoring your progress has been inside the pot area before and we'll need their help on this part.

Now, the other thing is that we need to see that the rheostat temp control is continuous in resistance and 'smoothly so' from one end to the other of it's control knob travel (this will be monitoring the value of resistance as the knob is slowly turned from low to high).
We'll get to that after we have seen the element, diagnosed it and just as important put that pot back together with whatever needed repairs it's going to need to fix those pulled out screws. I don't think that the pot is made to support the weight of the Pb soley by the element connections at the pot control enclosure.

Be especially careful when you go to tighten the screws that go into the sheet metal housing...that housing is really too thin to hold a sheet metal screw and they will 'strip out' if you even sneeze. Then we are going to have problems.

Also pay attention to the length and size of each screw you remove in order to get back where it was removed. If you have to draw some circles on a piece of paper, label one top and the othr bottom and put the screws, as you remove them on whichever circle that represents the bottom or the top of the pot enclosure. Since I'm not sure what we are going to find here we'll just go at it as simplistically as possible.

You might want to clean a spot on that bench so that if something falls out and you don't see what it was, you will have a chance of finding it.

OK...standing by for pictures of what you find inside...OS OK

[Mike W1]

First I'll see if I can stick a simple drawing in here and then edit things a bit.183298

Looks like it got on here. Your pot looks to be a Lee 10# unit. That little crude drawing shows how the thing is wired. From the cord coming in to the control switch, other side of the switch to one side of the element. Other side of the element is the other wire to the wall plug. If memory serves all the wires hook up with snap on connectors to the terminals.

Set up your meter to read ohms resistance. Don't plug the pot in. The heating element would have a high resistance so use the higher scale, usually marked with "K". If you're hooked up right touch your test leads together and you'd read "O" (zero) ohms. Then hook on lead to one side of the plug and same on the other side of the plug. If you're seeing a high ohm reading you're looking at the element resistance. If not use your test leads to check each section of wires jumping from one spot to next. If you can't get a reading across the switch it's bad but you might have to vary the turning of the switch a bit.

No reading across the element terminals would indicate a bad element. etc.

Also check both side of the plug to the chassis. That should read as an open. If anything is shorted to the chassis find it and fix the problem before you plug the thing back into the wall socket. Hope this helps, if not holler.

[454PB]

It says 500 watts in one photo, so it's a 10 pounder.

[rnelson11]

500 Watts/120 Volts = 4.16 Amps. 120 Volts/4.16 Amps = 28.8 ohms. If you check the 2 wires going into the pot (the heating element) your meter should read ~ 30 ohms.

[imashooter2]

Unplug the pot. Pull the cord lead off the thermostat spade terminal. Pull the thermostat lead off the heating coil spade terminal. Plug the cord terminal straight into the heating coil. Plug the pot in.

Breaker blows, you have a short. Replace heating coil.
Pot does not get hot, you have an open heating coil. Replace heating coil.
Pot gets hot, you have a bad thermostat. Replace thermostat.

[Walter Laich]

Unplug the pot. Pull the cord lead off the thermostat spade terminal. Pull the thermostat lead off the heating coil spade terminal. Plug the cord terminal straight into the heating coil. Plug the pot in.

Breaker blows, you have a short. Replace heating coil.
Pot does not get hot, you have an open heating coil. Replace heating coil.
Pot gets hot, you have a bad thermostat. Replace thermostat.

simple explanation of possible problems and fixes
good job

[fatelk]

The element literally broke in half on mine years ago. Believe it or not parts from Lee are fairly cheap and easy to replace. I had done the same thing; shook or tapped it too hard when it was hot. The heating element was old and corroded and simply broke in half. It was open, not shorted. If you test infinite resistance on the element, that could be the problem.

[Strtspdlx]

I like this way!!!!!!!



Unplug the pot. Pull the cord lead off the thermostat spade terminal. Pull the thermostat lead off the heating coil spade terminal. Plug the cord terminal straight into the heating coil. Plug the pot in.

Breaker blows, you have a short. Replace heating coil.
Pot does not get hot, you have an open heating coil. Replace heating coil.
Pot gets hot, you have a bad thermostat. Replace thermostat.

[Strtspdlx]

Web reading continuity there is a difference between 0 ohms and say .1-.5 ohms or an OL reading. It is helpful when ohming out the coil if the op stayed the value given in that circuit. And I feel for that to be valid the spade terminals have to be off so your isolating the coil. The pot shouldn't have to come apart to diagnose a bad coil if you have a meter.

[richhodg66]

I'm not an electrician, but I fought with one of those little Lee pots for years and replaced a lot of parts during that time. They're OK for what they are, but it finally gave up and I bought a used Lyman 61 for a little more than a new Lee would have cost and it is so much easier to get good bullets now that I can concentrate on casting and not fiddling with trying to make the pot work right. My advice would be to upgrade to a new pot.

[Smk SHoe]

To a point, I agree with richhodge66. I have and use a lee pot and a lot of other lee casting equipment and I am pretty handy around electricity. But, really, you are spending a lot of time and energy troubleshooting a cheap pot that even if you get it fixed will probably have something else go bad. Yes, replacement parts are reasonably cheap ( thats the problem, cheap) Sometimes you have to just call it what it is, a old broken lead pot.

[henry8734]

Sorry guys, out of town at the moment. I'll have to get back to you when we make it back! Merry Christmas and Happy new year to all of you! Thank you again for all the help!

[Eddie Southgate]

I'd trash it and get another one . Lyman or RCBS either one .

Eddie

[NavyVet1959]

Put your location in your profile and maybe someone local will offer to help.

[mac1911]

The element literally broke in half on mine years ago. Believe it or not parts from Lee are fairly cheap and easy to replace. I had done the same thing; shook or tapped it too hard when it was hot. The heating element was old and corroded and simply broke in half. It was open, not shorted. If you test infinite resistance on the element, that could be the problem.
Manypartsarefreefromlee

[mac1911]

Many parts are free from Lee although the shipping can be costly ....usually 13$ or more.
So be sure to get as much as you think you might need.
I recently picked up several mold parts, a discounted mould and a few other items along with new parts for my pro 1000. Almost snagged a O style press that was heavily discounted also.
Good luck.
Lee stuff is funny. I don't know how old mine is but it's still rocking...I have left it on. Has been left in the rain, dropped, kicked and all. It still keeps going.
Would adding a grounded cable to the pot be a good idea?

Your pot looks pretty beat up and as,mentioned the screws holding the pot look like they pulled out. The lee 20lb bottom drop pot is under 70$ and if you look most likely find one free shipping.
If you have a C&R license you can get it for 63$ from brownells

[henry8734]

What is a c and r license? Yeah maybe.... it would be nice to have a new one!

[Soundguy]

What is a c and r license? Yeah maybe.... !

A c&r is a collector of curio and relics, federal firearms license.

[RP]

Wondering why has the hammer fix been applied ? Hit it lightly on the side then the top if that fails hit it harder if that fails give it a few good hits. If that fails wrap it in plastic trash bag or trash can and pick up a new one save the hammer for testing of other things that just need a little tweaking.

[JakeBlanton]

Wondering why has the hammer fix been applied ? Hit it lightly on the side then the top if that fails hit it harder if that fails give it a few good hits. If that fails wrap it in plastic trash bag or trash can and pick up a new one save the hammer for testing of other things that just need a little tweaking.

As we used to say,

"When in doubt, use a bigger hammer"

[runfiverun]

having to short out the wire to the body is finishing a circuit and allowing the band to heat up.
if it's just half the band heating up.
the current is running through the body of the pot to the wire completing the circuit.

I think when you pulled the pot away from the self tapper screws you broke the heat band.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

having to short out the wire to the body is finishing a circuit and allowing the band to heat up.
if it's just half the band heating up.
the current is running through the body of the pot to the wire completing the circuit.

I think when you pulled the pot away from the self tapper screws you broke the heat band.
I agree.
Time for a new heater ($14)
http://leeprecision.com/new-heater-500w120v.html

[Grmps]

You can't get a new heat element for that old of a pot, the new 500 w heat elements are different and won't fit in the old square top uprights/ stand I tried. when mine died I got a new pot assembly(bowl), heat element, pot housing and thermostat, they didn't fit so I had to order a new front and back upright, nameplate and base, basically built a new pot with parts :(. Since the screws have pulled out of the pot it might be better to replace it. If you sent the pot to Lee they will sell you a new one for 1/2 the price

[Soundguy]

You can get a 10# bottom pour for? 60$

[henry8734]

Good to know! Thank you! I haven't messed with other yet, we've been consistently well below the 0 mark for temperature! My small heater just doesn't do it in the garage

[Soundguy]

I picked up a lee 10# bottom pour last year to get away from pot n ladle. Sure it drops when the tip get a little ash in it, but was to correct, and very convenient.