PDA

View Full Version : Marines to Get PMAGs to Fix M27 Woes with M855A1 Round



Artful
12-21-2016, 11:45 AM
http://kitup.military.com/2016/12/pmag-marines-m27-m855a1-round.html

SMALL ARMS (http://kitup.military.com/category/small-arms)Marines to Get PMAG to Fix M27 Woes with M855A1 RoundTOPICS:Small Arms (http://kitup.military.com/tag/small-arms)
http://i2.wp.com/kitup.military.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/hires_150120-M-QH615-206A.jpg?resize=749%2C437A Marine fires the M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle. The Marine Corps has approved the high-performing PMAG magazine for use on the M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle -- and the M16A4 and M4 carbines. (Defense Department photo)

POSTED BY: BRENDAN MCGARRY (http://kitup.military.com/author/brendan-mcgarry) DECEMBER 20, 2016
Marines are free to use the PMAG at last.

In welcome news for many a Marine (and Magpul employee), the Marine Corps has finally approved the high-performing PMAG magazine for use on the M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle, as well as the M16A4 and M4 carbines.

As readers of this blog are well aware, the magazine is one of the best on the market and has long been used by special operations forces and soldiers.

The Corps banned the product in 2012 because of compatibility issues with the first-generation version of the magazine and the IAR.

The announcement to reverse this decision leaked out Monday. But it’s important to understand why — and as my colleague Matthew Cox explains over at Military.com (http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/12/20/army-round-triggers-problems-marine-m27-auto-rifle.html) — the reason is because the M27 with its existing magazine ran into reliability problems with the Army’s newer M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round.

To be clear, the decision was to ensure that some Marines receiving the M855A1 who are headed downrange wouldn’t face those reliability issues.

As Cox reports:

“The reason they did that is because when Marines are deploying forward, they are sometimes receiving M855A1, and we need to ensure they have the ability to shoot that round,” Chris Woodburn, deputy branch chief for the Marine Corps’ Maneuver Branch that deals with requirements, told Military.com in a Dec. 20 telephone interview.

“In terms of the cause analysis and failure analysis, that has not been done, but what we do know is that the PMAG works,” he said.


Officials at Magpul Industries Corp. were excited, to say the least.

“In light of the results from an enormous body of reliability and durability testing and 4 years of combat use, today it was announced that the PMAG 30 AR/M4 GEN M3 Window, in Black and Medium Coyote Tan (MCT), would be the official magazine of the entire United States Marine Corp,” the company said on its social media accounts (https://twitter.com/Magpul_HQ/status/810990255138635776) on Monday.



USMC Authorizes GEN M3 PMAG
Earlier today, at 191737Z, the USMC issued a message entitled, “M4/M16 SERIES/M27 MAGAZINE GUIDANCE UPDATE”, directing which magazines will be used by Marines with the M4/M16, M27 and M249.

In addition to the Army’s new Enhanced Performance Magazines (NSN 1005-01- 630-9508) which will replace the legacy magazine in the stock system, PM Individual Weapon Systems also authorizes the GEN M3 PMAG in Black (NSN 1005-01-615-5169) and the new Medium Coyote Tan (NSN 1005-01-659-7086). Of note, the Army’s EPM is authorized for training use only!

http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/img_8412.jpg

This is huge news for Magpul because this is the first service-wide adoption of their magazine. Not only that, it’s the only magazine authorized for use in combat.

Here is the meat of the message:


GENTEXT/RMKS/

1. PURPOSE. THIS MESSAGE PROVIDES UPDATED GUIDANCE REGARDING THE USE OF MAGAZINES FOR THE M4/M16 SERIES AND M27 INFANTRY AUTOMATIC RIFLE (IAR).

2. BACKGROUND. MARINE CORPS UNITS WILL NO LONGER RECEIVE THE LEGACY MAGAZINE WHEN ORDERING NATIONAL STOCK NUMBER (NSN) 1005-01-561-7200; THIS NSN WILL DEFAULT TO THE U.S. ARMY ENHANCED PERFORMANCE MAGAZINE (EPM), NSN 1005-01- 630-9508. AUTHORIZATION TO USE THE EPM FOR TRAINING USE ONLY WITH THE M4, M4A1, M16A4, AND M27 REMAINS THE SAME.

3. ACTION 3.A. PM IWS AUTHORIZES UNITS TO USE THE FOLLOWING POLYMER MAGAZINES WITH THE M4, M4A1, M16A4, M27, AND M249: NSN 1005-01-615-5169 (BLACK) AND NSN 1005-01-659-7086 (COYOTE TAN). UNITS ARE AUTHORIZED TO REQUISITION THESE MAGAZINES WITH UNIT FUNDS.

3.B. PM IWS WILL UPDATE SL-3S FOR THE M4, M4A1, M16A4, AND M27 TO LIST THE ABOVE POLYMER MAGAZINE NSNS. NO OTHER POLYMER MAGAZINES ARE AUTHORIZED FOR USE.

4. IOT PROVIDE IMMEDIATE AND SUSTAINING ACCESS TO ALL USERS, A PUBLICATION CONTROL NUMBER (PCN) WILL BE ASSIGNED TO THIS MESSAGE FOR ACCESS VIA THE WEAPONS SYSTEM ID NUMBER SEARCH IN SL-1-2.//

Tags: Magpul

This entry was posted on Monday, December 19th, 2016 at 23:11 and is filed under Advertiser, MARCORSYSCOM, Weapon Accessories. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

Speedo66
12-23-2016, 11:57 AM
Quick, buy Magpul stock.....lol

Smoke4320
12-23-2016, 05:26 PM
at $15.00 mag just went to $300.00

OH wait Trump will be in office soon so it might be $12.00

runfiverun
12-23-2016, 06:14 PM
how screwed up is this round that it won't feed from a magazine.
seriously what did they do go to a wad cutter?

tomme boy
12-23-2016, 08:26 PM
This round is a accident waiting to happen. It is very high pressure and they have to do a round count with the rifles as the lugs are shearing off of the bolts or the barrel extension.

runfiverun
12-23-2016, 11:07 PM
so you just stop shooting in the middle of a fire fight and call a time out to go get another rifle?

mcdaniel.mac
12-23-2016, 11:17 PM
so you just stop shooting in the middle of a fire fight and call a time out to go get another rifle?
No, you do routine PMCS, armorers make rounds to do inspections and fit replacement parts on schedule well in advance of likely failure, and my squad at least always had a spare rifle on patrol because of the weapons platoon attachments and the DMR. The one time a rifle went down, I handed off my M16 and stowed the broken one in my ruck (Eberlestock Gunslinger II, love it) and continued using the Mk12 I was carrying.

Or you borrow the ANA's M24 for a little bit...

dkf
12-24-2016, 12:56 AM
how screwed up is this round that it won't feed from a magazine.
seriously what did they do go to a wad cutter?

From what I read it has more to due with the follower with the M4 feed ramps. The exposed steel tip can jam into the aluminum of the upper receiver right below the BE. The regular M855 had a reversed wrapped jacket which covered the steel tip with copper so it is not as hard. Most of the current mags in circulation are probably a little rough and worn too.

The M855A1 is not that much hotter than the original M855 but it is on the edge or over. If the primer pockets were not crimped I'd bet they would blow every primer. If the rifles (especially the M4s) are over gassed (which I suspect) it will only help to accelerate wear.

nicholst55
12-24-2016, 04:44 AM
Wonder if Big Army will approve use of the PMAG now as a result of this decision?

mac1911
12-24-2016, 08:43 AM
What the army messed up another design!
So the M855a1 is running a little hotter
Is that because the "army" just went with the "standard" powder charge and didn't account for the space taken up inside the case from the longer bullet...I'm a little shocked that the "engineers" didn't for see a problem with hardened chunk of steel bouncing around in the works of a AR...
Theres a nagging thing stirring in my head that all P,mag did over the 4 years of testing is find a way to make them cheap enough for USGI

nagantguy
12-24-2016, 08:54 AM
Wonder just how many Marines have already been using the pmag? I know when I was in the Corps there was gear that was not allowed but we all had it cause it worked, like better springs for the m92, Houge grips on m4s and a certain "new and improved" radio battery that would be discarded and switched with the "obsolete" one as soon as we left on patrol!

Hickory
12-24-2016, 09:22 AM
Wonder just how many Marines have already been using the pmag? I know when I was in the Corps there was bear that was not allowed but we all had it cause it worked, like better springs for the m92, Houge gripes on m4s and a certain "new and improved" radio battery that would be discarded and switched with the "obsolete" one as soon as we left on patrol!

Nothing wrong with wanting to stay alive or improving your equipment.

Ken in Iowa
12-24-2016, 10:04 AM
Some things never change.

http://www.223reloads.com/home/223-5-56-info/223-5-56-reloading/wc-846-loads

I'm all for giving the boys what works best. I hope this gets sorted out quickly.

dkf
12-24-2016, 12:20 PM
What the army messed up another design!
So the M855a1 is running a little hotter
Is that because the "army" just went with the "standard" powder charge and didn't account for the space taken up inside the case from the longer bullet...I'm a little shocked that the "engineers" didn't for see a problem with hardened chunk of steel bouncing around in the works of a AR...
Theres a nagging thing stirring in my head that all P,mag did over the 4 years of testing is find a way to make them cheap enough for USGI

The A1 uses a different powder than the original M855. Its just a case of them wanting more performance out of the cartridge and pushing it to or slightly over the edge of its capabilities.

American Reloading had M855A1 bullets in stock, but for $110 per 100 they are too rich for my blood.

Houndog
12-24-2016, 01:54 PM
Its just a case of them wanting more performance out of the cartridge and pushing it to or slightly over the edge of its capabilities.

That's what's wrong with the M16/M4 and the Beretta 9mm side arms as well! They go to a small caliber weapon and then try to hot it up to well beyond it's design to make up for the lost performance. It simply don't work as it should. In MY opinion the DOD would be better served going to a 40 S&W OR LARGER round in their sidearms and a 260, 7/08 or .308 round in a service rifle. They could stay with an AR platform weapon and still be better off. As for the sidearm, Beretta, Glock and S&W all make superior weapons off the shelf that would serve us well.

flint45
12-27-2016, 08:52 PM
One thing that would be nice is that the Marines didnt have to use army second hand mags either.