32-20 or 32S&W long?

[jes]

Long time lurker, first time poster. For years I've wanted a quiet, reloadable rifle to kind of replace a 22lr. I want about the same velocity as a 22, about the same noise level also. I plan on using it for plinking and small game out to 75 yards. Because of aging eyes, I need to be able to scope it. So I picked up G2 contender, which I'm using as my muzzle loader. I'm thinking about either 32-20 or 32S&W long. Would like some opinions. I don't plan on going over 1500fps, probably more like 1000 to 1200fps with mainly cast boolits. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

[victorfox]

My 0.02 of confusion...

If I had access to factory ammo, as well as dies, cases et al, I'd go for a .32-20, it seems a better caliber for your intended purposes.

On the other hand, a gun chambered for .327 Federal Magnum would fire the .32 S&W short, long, .32 H&R, and give quite more power than the .32-20 and any of the other listed calibers.

It could, also, be downloaded to any level, including black powder loads, round balls, while being able to shoot almost .357 Magnum power loads in the same gun.

If the options remained .32-20 or .32 S&W Long, I'd choose .32-20.

[woody1]

I love the .32WCF (.32-20) but........any of the other 32's mentioned above resize with carbide dies and cases are a little tougher. More options in finding brass also and they can even use .32 auto brass should push come to shove.

[jes]

Well, I want something that's easy to find components for, I do like the idea of a straight walled cartridge. Any idea what kind of velocity a 32 S&W long would get out of a 24 inch barrel? I've got a few rifles in 357 magnum, so if I want more power, I just grab one of those, this is not going to be a rifle I plan on maxing out for velocity. Also, who would be a good bet to get a barrel from and what would be the best twist for 85 to 100 grain cast?

[50target]

You mentioned that you weren't going over 1500 fps & that leaves the 32 long out cause you can't get close with it. The 32-20 can get there & is potent with a 115 gr bullet but the 327 and assorted 32's mentioned above give you more ammo choices and range of velocities & available brass than 32-20. Now if brass was plentiful I could bend your ear on the 25-20.

[Outpost75]

I have exercised my "Bunny Gun Fetish" for 30 years, having gotten rid of all my .32-20s, and .32 H&R Magnums, having decided that for my purposes, the .32 S&W Long case provides everything which I could desire for use in either a revolver or rifle. In a strong revolver you can equal the payload and velocity of a .38 Special and in a rifle you can easily equal .32-20 or .32 H&R Magnum ballistics, with excellent accuracy, using common and plentiful .30 caliber barrel stock.

Tom Ellis at Accurate molds has produced for me a variety of experimental bullets I have used in what I call the .32 Long Rifle. These designs are all in the Accurate catalog and may be ordered. The 090B has a large meplat for maximum shocking power on small game. The other bullets are rounded, flat-noses having an adequate meplat for small game use, but with better profile for rifle use beyond 50 yards and to minimize meat destruction on edible small and medium game.

Penetration of the heavier bullets is astounding on deer sized animals at subsonic rifle velocities. I use 1:30 tin-lead alloy from Roto Metals and my rifle barrel has a ten-inch twist of rifling to stabilize the 155-grain FN bullet subsonic. The 155-grain bullet when crimped in its crimp groove fits in the cylinder of stronger .32 S&W Long revolvers and approximates the velocity of 158-grain LRN .38 Special service loads fired from the same barrel length.

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Some chronograph data:

.32 S&W Long Factory Vs. Handloads In Revolvers and Rifle - Remington cases, Federal 200 primers in all handloads:

Ammo Type__________________Colt DS 2”_________Colt PP 4”___________H&R18”

PMC 98 LRN factory_________687, 13 Sd_______797, 17Sd________945, 16 Sd
Highest velocity factory load__103 ft-lbs._______138 ft.lbs.________194 ft.-lbs.

Remington 98 LRN factory________645, 20 Sd_______729, 12 Sd________899, 11 Sd

Western 98 LRN factory (1960s)___643, 19 Sd_______658, 22 Sd________912, 17 Sd

Privi-Partisan 98 LRN____________656, 28 Sd_______675, 11 Sd_________917, 21 Sd

Accurate 31-087T, 2.5 BE________662, 16 Sd_______780, 22 Sd________1000, 15 Sd

Accurate 31-090B, 2.5 BE________731, 26 Sd_______773, 11 Sd________1066, 16 Sd

Accurate 31-090B, 7.0 #2400_______n/f___________942, 16 Sd________1287, 23 Sd
Post-1960 revolvers only.

Accurate 31-114D, 2.5 BE_____746, 9 Sd______795, 15 Sd________947, 11 Sd
Max. for pre-1960 revolvers__141ft.-lbs._____160 ft.-lbs.________227 ft.-lbs.

Accurate 31-114D, 3.0 BE_________n/f____________868, 10 Sd_________1082, 15 Sd

Accurate 31-114D, 6.3 #2400_____768, 22Sd_______839, 37 Sd_________1205, 22 Sd

Accurate 31-125D, 6.3 #2400____820, 19Sd________890 19 Sd_________1240, 29 Sd

Accurate 31-134D, 6.3 #2400__828, 19 Sd____913, 16 Sd______1221, 16 Sd
Max. for post-1960 Colts_____204 ft.-lbs.____248 ft.-lbs.______443 ft.-lbs.!
Ejected cases fall out easily, clean burn, accurate, recoil similar to .38 Special +P.
Strong revolvers only. Accurate in the rifle! Shoots to the sights at 50 yards from 4" Colt PP.

Accurate 31-155D, 6.3 #2400______n/f__________803, 11 Sd___________1084, 12 Sd
"Strong Revolver" and "Rifle Subsonic Heavy-Bullet Blooper" load. Astounding penetration!
__________________________________________________ ____________________

[marlinman93]

I wouldn't even need a second to choose the .32-20 over any other pistol cartridge .32

[jes]

Don't get me wrong, I like the 32-20, but what I'm looking for is a lower velocity round, that I don't have to load down. I want 22lr velocity, and noise level. What I'm wondering is which cartridge will fill that slot the best. If I want a 2000fps 30 cal, I can load my 30-30 down, I want a dedicated cartridge in that 900 to maximum 1500, realistically 1200fps. If the 32-20 does this, then great, but if I can use 32 S&W long for those velocities, without stretching it, I would rather have the smaller, straight walled cartridge.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

.32 H&R Mag.
Carbide dies, strong case, easily pushes bullets to the velocities you are looking for.

[Tracy]

I would go with .32 Long. It will have no problem doing 1200 fps from a rifle-length barrel. Lyman's Pistol and Revolver Handbook shows a load consisting of their No. 3118, 115 grain bullet over 5.3 grains of HS-5; 1102 fps from a 4 inch S&W 31. That load would probably approach 1500 from a rifle barrel. I would experiment with slower powders like 2400 and H110; they would probably do even better from the longer barrel.
Another option would be .32 H&R Mag which would work a little better with the slower powders. .32 Mag brass is sometimes more readily available than .32 Long brass. Starline makes both, and for about the same price.

[jes]

Whichever way I go, what barrel mfg and twist would you recommend for the G2?

[Outpost75]

Whichever way I go, what barrel mfg and twist would you recommend for the G2?

As long as it is a "good" quality barrel, it doesn't matter. My Bunny Gun was fabricated using a pull-off M1 Garand barrel, cutting it off at the gas port and chamber neck, turning down and fitting what was left. The .30 cal. 4-groove government form in 10-inch twist works fine. The traditional twist for the .32-20 and the .30 M1 Carbine was 1:20", which works well with the lighter bullets up to 115-120 grains.

I used a barrel I had, and have been happy. If interested in heavy-bullet, subsonic loads a faster twist is better. But that being said, I also have a Remington 580 rifle converted to .32 ACP with a 10" twist barrel and it is very accurate with factory 71-73 grain FMJ bullets as well as heavier cast bullets.

Don't get wrapped around the axle worrying about twist or barrel grove diameter. You just want a "good" barrel and whether it is a .308 or .312 groove or 20" twist, 12", 14", 16" or 10" doesn't matter and is simply mental masturbation. Good barrel, proper chamber and throat dimensions. Good workmanship. As FYI, you can chamber a .32 ACP barrel using the front end of a .30 M1 Carbine reamer run in short, and set up the gun to headspace on the case mouth.



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[JSH]

Sounds to me like you want a 22 hornet or K hornet.
The 32-20/30-20 in the TC platform can equal the 30x221 with ease. It can also be down loaded to the point of 32SW.
After playing with the 32-20 and the 30-20 on a modern platform for 20+ years, it is a do all round and doesn't know it's age. It is what the 327 wants to be, the 327 is what the 32 mag should have been.
With the new CFE BLK powder coming out, it will make life a lot easier I hope.
Bullseye,WC820, AA9,2400 and 1680 have been my go to powders. I have used black powder and some of the substitutes along with trail boss.
Las long as the 32-20 has been around there is a LOT more info out there than the others.
Jeff

[GARD72977]

I would choose the 32 long! I love the 32-20 but...... Case necks are soft, have to lube cases and over all not the best cartridge to load progressive.

I really think the 32 long has a lot going for it. As long as you are a reloader and use cast boolits I don't see a down side.


Good luck and let us know what you decide on.

[Jack Stanley]

As much as I like the 32WCF it is not as easy to load in bulk as the straight walled case and I have loaded a lot of 32 WCF rounds . Since you have rifles that can put the power down range when you need it , a .32 long like Outpost describes sounds like a good idea .

Jack

[Scharfschuetze]

Lots of good arguments for the two cartridges. I shoot both and like 'em both.

Given your goal, why not consider a 25/20? It's a lot more like a .22 than either the above and can be very accurate with anything from 60 to 87 grain cast boolits. There are lots of mould designs to choose from too.

While mine is a repeater, it will head shoot a rabbit at 70 yards with ease... if it's standing still. Last month I was shooting it at a full 300 yards on steel targets with perfect success. The trajectory was pretty steep, but by holding the target at the point of the bottom vertical wire of the duplex reticle, kind of like a post reticle, hits came pretty easy.

I have no idea if a barrel for you TC is available though.

[leftiye]

.32 H&R Mag.
Carbide dies, strong case, easily pushes bullets to the velocities you are looking for.

Plus 1. A hot loaded .32 H&R mag about does away with any need for 32-20 or .327 mag. On the other hand, standard loads are about what you say to be seeking.

[sharps4590]

Reading between the lines and, probably incorrectly, simplicity also seems to be one of your considerations. As much as I love my various 32-20's, all vintage, the cartridge is a wee bit of a pain to reload as compared to straight cases. I tend to agree with those who suggest one based on the 32 S&W long. I do believe whichever one you choose you will thoroughly enjoy it.

[woody1]

For your reading pleasure:

Tiny Handgun Cartridges Are Also Small Game Rifle Rounds!
by Ed Harris
Gerrardstown, WV

After fooling around with a pair of chamber inserts using .32 S&W Long and .32 ACP ammunition in the .30-30, I thought about building a light “walking rifle” which would be handy and quiet. I wanted something more effective than a .22 LR, something which could also approach the ballistics of the .32-20 Winchester. The .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R Magnum cartridges are ideal for such use, but the only factory produced rifle is the Marlin 1894 Cowboy which is neither inexpensive, nor very handy. I wanted something which carried more like a fly rod than a wrecking bar.

Because I frequently carry a .32 revolver or .32 ACP pocket pistol around our country place, I wanted to use those same rounds in a light small game rifle. I would have two barrels made to compare results obtained with the .32 ACP and .32 Smith & Wesson Long. My reasoning was that for very light, quiet “.30 cal. CB cap” loads, that the tiny .32 ACP case would have advantages, whereas the larger .32 S&W Long or H&R Magnum case would had more capacity if I wanted more energy.

My gun safe contained a seldom used H&R .410 single-shot, on the tiny pre-war action, which weighed 4 pounds. John Taylor made two rifle barrels for me, chambered for the .32 ACP and .32 S&W Long (which I later rechambered to H&R Magnum). The .410 barrel remained intact, and the entire package cost less than a new Marlin Cowboy lever-gun. I opted for an 18” barrel chambered in .32 ACP for the most-handy configuration and a 26” barrel in .32 S&W Long for optimum sight radius and minimum noise.

The .32 ACP barrel was fabricated from a pulled-off M1 Garand barrel, cutting off the muzzle behind the gas port and the breech at the chamber neck, turning the OD, fabricating and beam welding on the shotgun underlug and fitting the ejector. The bore is of standard 4-groove .30 cal. Government form with ten inch twist and was chambered with a custom reamer resembling the front half of a .30 M1 Carbine chamber. It headspaces on the case mouth instead of the semi-rim.

The .32 S&W Long barrel is rifled to normal .32 revolver specs with six grooves, right twist, one turn in 16 inches with a bore of .302 and .312 groove diameter.

Firing indoors and comparing both barrels with iron sights, I am satisfied that any handgun ammunition averaging an inch or so over a series of 5-shot groups at 25 yards is adequate for hunting small game. I managed to do so fairly easily with several loads to prove the concept. Winchester .32 S&W Long 98-grain LRN, and .32 ACP Fiocchi and RWS 73-gr. hardball all averaged just under inch groups at 25 yards.

Lead 98-gr. LRN factory loads from the .32 S&W Long 26 inch barrel gave 884 f.p.s. From the 18 inch .32 ACP, Fiocchi 73-grain hardball clocked 943 f.p.s., and RWS hardball was 1214 f.p.s. Fiocchi 60-grain JHPs, which gave 1200 f.p.s. from a 3.5 inch Beretta pistol, screamed out at 1463 f.p.s. in the 18” H&R.

Handloads were next. My goal was not high velocity, but subsonic, quiet small game loads approximating the .32 Long rim fire (from .32 ACP brass) or standard velocity lead .32-20 loads (from .32 S&W Long brass). These objectives were met handily using the Saeco #325 98-grain SWC and the #322 122-gr. flatnose .32-20 bullets.

The RCBS 32-90CM is a good choice for a common production mold suitable for either caliber. Those not casting their own bullets can buy commercial Meister 94-gr. LFN bullets of .312 diameter. These have the same profile as the flat-nosed factory bullet for the .32 Colt New Police and works well as a heavy .32 ACP bullet. Its ogive length enables a .98” overall cartridge length when taper-crimped in the .32 ACP and when so seated its base does not protrude so deeply into the case that it bulges cases.

Velocities of the .32 ACP cast bullet loads with the 94-grain Meister and 1.7 grains of Bullseye fired from my Walther PP, CZ27 and Beretta 1935 pistols approximate the performance expected from a 4” revolver using the same bullet in the .32 S&W Long with 2.5 grains of Bullseye. When fired from the 18” .32 ACP rifle, the minimum 1.7 grain charge which reliably functions my WWII-era Euro auto pistols approaches the velocity expected of standard .32-20 Winchester factory lead bullet loads fired from a four-inch barreled revolver.

Trying to drive a non-expanding cast bullet intended for small game to supersonic velocity in a rifle is a waste of powder. This is not a 100-yard rig, but a woods “walking gun.” Its iron sights have a hard 50 yard zero, coupled with reliable 4 moa grouping (2 inches at 50 yds) and greater striking energy and penetration than a .22 LR. It shoots clear through critters, making reliable kills on raccoon, groundhog, wild turkey or the occasional marauding feral dog. The rig is practical in its simplicity.

The 26 inch long .32 S&W Long barrel is noticeably quieter than the shorter .32 ACP. After initial testing I rechambered it to .32 H&R Magnum and shot it again. My reasoning was that doing do would enable using HRM brass and factory loads, but wouldn’t significantly hurt the grouping with my .32 S&W Long revolver ammo. After rechambering, the tiny 4.5 lb. rifle still shoots one-inch groups at 25 yards with .32 S&W Longs using either the 94-gr. Meister .312″ LRN or the LBT .312-105FNBB with 2.5 grs. of Bullseye.

The longer chamber permits seating heavier bullets out in S&W Long brasss to increase powder capacity. With the 122-gr. Saeco #322 bullet for the .32-20, seated to 1.32” overall length in .32 S&W Long brass, crimping in the top lube groove using either 2 grains of Bullseye or 6 grs. of #2400, either load will shoot an inch and half at 50 yards with iron sights over a long series. The same loads fired in a relined English rook rifle I built later approach an inch when using an old Unertl 6X Small Game scope.

Some .32 H&R Mag loads listed in manuals caused ugly looking fired primers in the converted H&R shotgun because of its large shotgun firing pin and un-bushed breech face. I found this a useful indicator of chamber pressure, so I use no load which causes hard opening or smeared primer cups upon opening the rifle when using standard small pistol primers. Firing trials quickly reveal when a load is “too hot,” because hard opening occurs before primer cups noticeably flatten compared to firing the same loads in my revolver. Federal factory .32 H&R loads rub a shiny ring around the firing pin indent, but the action opens with little effort. I therefore presume that a load causing hard opening is over 20,000 psi.

My general purpose load for use in modern .32 S&W Long revolvers and the single-shot H&R uses either the 115-gr. Ideal #3118 or 122-gr. Saeco #322. I cast these of soft scrap, 10BHN, tumble in Lee Liquid Alox, size .314, and load in .32 S&W Long cases with Federal 200 primers and 2 grains of Alliant Bullseye at 1.32″ OAL. This gives not quite 850 fps in the rifle and 720 fps in various 4-inch revolvers. It is accurate in both the Ruger Single Six and S&W Model 31. An added benefit is that this load pokes out the front of the cylinder of my old I-frame S&W .32 Hand ejector, which keeps me from putting this warmer-than-factory load in the old gun.

A flat-nosed, solid lead bullet, with large meplat at subsonic velocity is fully adequate in energy and penetration against feral dogs or coyotes. My testing of the Saeco #322 at 850 f.p.s. gave 30 inches of water penetration. If you want a bit flatter trajectory to reach out to 100 yards at the expense of a bit more noise, you can increase the charge to 2.5 grs. of Bullseye in S&W Long brass or 3 grains in H&R Magnum brass. It shoots well at a little over 1000 fps in the rifle and 800-850 fps in the revolver.

I have not fooled much with slower powders, because specialized rifle-only loads defeat the purpose of using the same ammo in both the walking rifle and revolver. I briefly tried #2400 in H&R Magnum loads, up to a nominal “case full” in the .32 Long case. While faster, it was very much louder and less accurate than my mild loads with Bullseye.

The final journey in my search of “Bunny Gun Nirvanna” was in obtaining a real English rook rifle and having it lined to .32 S&W Long. I located an Army & Navy Cooperative Society rook rifle in .255 which had been inexpertly rechambered to .25-20 Winchester. With some botched scope block holes and jackleg barrel restamping, I was able to get it cheap. I sent it to John Taylor to have it relined and rechambered to .32 S&W Long, then upon its return it went to Connecticut for Lucas Geiger to do a full exterior restoration. I now have a plain walking rifle for rough use, and a pretty art piece for yard and range shooting. Both shoot equally well, an inch and a half or less at 50 yards with my chosen loads, with low noise which doesn’t disturb the neighbors. Now to walk the garden!

also

http://www.guns.connect.fi/gow/ed.html

[Wayne R. Scott]

A few years ago when .22 ammo appeared to be extinct I ordered a .32 S&W Long barrel built by MGM for my T/C Contender. I had them leave the barrel length at 27". It is very quite with a light load of Bullseye and a 92 gr. SWC cast bullet. At 25 yards 5 shots can be covered with a dime. It is cheaper to shoot than .22 LR and is effective on small game.

http://matchgrademachine.com/chambers/

[MT Gianni]

Search the 30 Badger. Designed by a former board member it is a 38 special necked to 308". Bullet weights with a 1 in 10 run from 90 to 150. Shoot all day with 4 gr of powder. I believe MGM made an Encore bbl by request. For dies replace the expander button of a 357 die with a 308 button and size deprine. Size the top with a 32 acp and seat. If you cannot find 38 cases there is no more shooting on this planet.

[Shawlerbrook]

If it were me I'd go either 22 Hornet or 25 20, but the 32's would suit your needs also.

[gnoahhh]

I for one wouldn't bother with the .327 Magnum if all I wanted was bunny gun performance. The notion of using shorts and longs in the same chamber has minimal appeal because of the then long bullet jump from from case to rifling origins which can do nothing but impede accuracy. I would opt for the good old .32 S&W Long, get a couple of good molds, and sail off merrily into the sunset. As stated, use a quality barrel fitted and chambered (throated) by someone who knows what they're doing.

I've been an advocate of the .22 Hornet for the purposes espoused by the OP, and will continue to adhere to it, but the next single shot build will be a .32 S&W Long. Absolutely.

[marlinman93]

I don't do any Dillon or other high volume loading, so having a case that can be done on a fully progressive press means nothing to me. But getting any pistol caliber loaded to 22 velocities is no problem at all, and I wouldn't consider it "down loading". I've fired thousands of .32-20 rounds that were under 1,000 fps, and very accurate. The big thing for me is the .32-20 is such a versatile cartridge, as it can be pushed out the barrel at anything from around 650 fps to over 2,000 fps in a gun that can handle the higher pressures. Even if all your loads will be under 1,000 fps, the .32-20 is still a great caliber choice.

[jes]

I think I'll go with the 32 S&W long, I have several other higher velocity and larger bore "smaller" cartridges, such as 17 Ackley hornet, K hornet, 357 magnum, 30-30, etc. I'll go 32 S&W long, MGM 26 inch barrel, then, if I really want to, I can always ream it to 32 H&R or 327Max, and if I'm not happy with the length, it can get shorter. Thanks for all the input, you gave me a lot to think about.

[Outpost75]

Factory loads in the 26" barrel will be accurate and quiet. Fiocchi wadcutters are like .30 cal. CB caps in a long barrel.

[GARD72977]

Keep us informed. I would like to know about the throat of your rifle. I'm excited to hear your experience with this caliber.

[JSH]

What bore size are you thinking of going with, 308 or 312/313?
Somthing to consider if you have not. FYI I loaded a LOT of 30-20 for my TC with standard run of the mill 32-20 dies. I acquired a set of Redding 30-20 and saw no appreciable difference.
A lot more choices in the 308.
Jeff

[jes]

As far as the throat is concerned, if I go with MGM, I'm not sure how much choice I have, I'll talk to them in the new year. The bore, I think I'll go with 312. My plan is to shoot 90 to 115 grain boolits, and there seems to be a fairly good selection. I use 312's in my 1882 Swiss revolver, so I have a good supply. But that's why I started this thread, to get suggestions and information. By the way, thanks for the input so far, keep it coming!

[Outpost75]

If you have an option on throating, a form which has worked very well for me in both .308" and .312" groove diameter barrels has been a forcing cone having a major diameter of .312" at its opening forward of the chamber mouth, having no cylindrical ball seat, but a shallow forcing cone angle of 1 degree, 45 minutes, Basic, which is similar to the .38 AMU. This provides a very gentle transition into the rifling which permits seating longer, heavier bullets out to increase powder capacity, and to pre-engrave their bore-riding forepart, whereas accuracy of lighter revolver bullets is excellent and unaffected.

If you are primarily interested in 90-115-grain bullets the 1:20" twist which is standard for the .30 M1 Carbine or .32-20 will work splendidly, but accuracy will suffer with bullets longer than the Accurate 31-134D.

183384

[Eddie Southgate]

I'd go with the .327 Federal so you can use all the other .32's in it also . Never know when the need for the extra power may come in handy and you can use the .32 SW short case for squirrels , bunnies , and paper and two pounds of powder for it will likely last you a lifetime .

Eddie

[Outpost75]

In my experience the accuracy of short-cased rounds is poor when bullets are jumped a distance which exceeds their diameter in a longer chamber. Firing .32 S&W Long in an H&R Mag. chamber doubles group size at 50 yards compared to the AMU style throat on a chamber of correct length as described above. If you want a quiet, non-destructive small game rifle which is more effective than a .22LR with less meat destruction, the .32 S&W Long gives .32-20 blackpowder performance efficiently in a common case which is properly dimensioned with the ideal capacity for smokeless powder. A larger case is neither helpful, nor needed unless you enjoy eating bloodshot meat and fur burgers seasoned with bone splinters.

[.45Cole]

I was after the same search, something to take out tough mountain marmonts that can absorb a .22 but a .45 colt is too loud. I settled on the 32-20 because of it's ease of reloading, cheap, and the Browning m-53. My silent load is a 100gr FN at about 1000fps, I can push that to about 1800fps with a little more powder. The Rem cases are soft mouth and can easily bend on ejection but Starline cases are plentiful and strong. It's a very historic round.

[GARD72977]

You really have me back on the 32 S&W long. Douglas has the 32 long barrel available in 1/16. That should be great for 100 gr bullets. I made some post recently about a CPA Stevens 44 1/4 Schuetzen in a 32 SW long. I'm thinking that since this is a switch barrel gun a 32 SW long and 32/40 would be great. Most of my shooting/practice will be at 50yd. Having a 32 SW for volume short range practice makes a lot is sense. I don't want to breach seat all the time.

Thanks for the inspiration. Some times I feel like like The only fool on earth wanting something like this.

This cartridge would be stingy with lead and powder, and 1k shell cases from Star line should last a lifetime at 1000 fps loads. Forgot to mention it's Dillon friendly.

[jes]

I know exactly what you mean, I feel like I'm the only crazy one! But I think the 32 S&W would be a great loadable 22lr alternative. If I want something with more power, I'll take something bigger. This will be a specific rifle/cartridge for a specific purpose, not a rifle I'll download to make work.

[John Taylor]

I have made more than a few 32 S&W rifles over the years, got two in the works now. I don't believe the longer chamber is a good idea as Outpost75 says, the jump to the rifling can effect accuracy. Green Mountain has some very good prices on the 7.62 barrels ( gunsmith special )that should work fine, especially if longer bullets are used. The two I'm working on now, a Cadet with a 24" octagon barrel and a Remington #4 32 rim fire that will be getting a liner and made for the 32 short S&W.

[P Flados]

For 22 LR replacement, I give a strong vote for the 32 straight wall pistol cartridge choices. 32-20 is much more work and power than needed. You can shoot anything from 38 specials to 357s from your other guns if you want more bang or thump.

For a 22 LR replacement, low noise is usually a priority. The 32 S&W Long loaded to "book max" (way under what your gun can handle, but safe if your loads end up in a weaker revolver) with fast powder and the heaviest bullet listed would probably be a little more potent than a 22 and will be a low noise option. Lighter bullets would be flatter shooting out to medium ranges and can be real close to the "lowest cost" option and generally a great little fun shooter (noise may be higher). New 32 S&W long brass is not terrible at starline, used brass is not unobtainable, and the potential for overall satisfaction as a 22 LR replacement would very high.

With "not loaded down" as part of you objective, a 32 H&R mag would probably be more power than you actually want and a 32-20 (or 327) would be way more than you want.

However, a 32 H&R gun would only be a little more than (but closer to) "22 LR replacement" levels at "book minimum/starting" loadings. New 32 H&R brass cost more that 32 S&W long brass but is not as bad as 327. One real possible advantage of 32 H&R is at the reloading bench. The 32 H&R is pretty easy to handle where anything shorter requires a little more focus and care. If you go with the 32 H&R barrel, and if you find it a little more than you wanted, using 32 S&W long brass with medium to heavy bullets should work just about as good as if the gun were chambered for the 32 S&W long. The extra versatility of 32 H&R barrel has very low risk of any detectable downside and is hard to ignore.

Some would potentially argue that the 327 Fed mag gives even more options. Unless you need the extra power, I would not go with this choice. The 32 S&W brass is the lowest cost and most available of all the usable brass. The difference in length is just too much to expect good results using 32 S&W long in a 327 chamber. I tried some in my 327 and got much worse accuracy that with full length cases.

I recently went with a 4.2" Ruger SP 101 in 327 Federal to get the "22 LR replacement" revolver equivalent to your goal. For volume shooting, I use light bullets (55 gr) and load down to 32 S&W long power level. I do use full length cases. Now that I have the gun, I am certain that a 32 H&R mag would probably have been closer to "optimum" for what I wanted. As the 32 H&R was not an available choice, I am fully satisfied with the overall results (my low power loads shoot great & higher power loads make plenty of bang if desired). I am just not happy with brass cost / availability. See my posts at:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?318230-My-Ruger-New-Model-Single-Six-32-Project

[dverna]

Great thread.

I am also of the .22 replacement crowd..SO it needs to be a straight wall case for ease of reloading. The .32 S&W Long makes a lot of sense.

A bit wild, but pick up a beat up Walther GSP, add a 20" barrel, custom rifle stock. It is deadly accurate and has a match trigger. Semi auto....nice for bunnies or plinking. All for maybe $1500.

I wonder if if there is a small bolt action that could be modified? JES could do a rebore.

Don Verna

[Outpost75]

I did a Remingtn 580.

[jes]

I have a 580, but I haven't found anybody willing to do a conversion for me, and I feel it's beyond my capability. The G2 is an easier route I think.

[Outpost75]

183476183477183478

[P Flados]

Getting a contender carbine set up in 32 S&W Long based on an MGM barrel would be straightforward but not cheap.

Converting another gun might be interesting, but it would seem to be a waste unless a really good donor gun was available.

It is a shame that there are still great little gun bargins out there (such as a CVA @ well under $300) but only in the "mainstream" cartridges.

[LIMPINGJ]

I have just recently picked up one of the Yildiz folding shotguns in 410 and have sent an email to John Taylor about converting it to 32s&w long. I am waiting to hear back from him and sure hope I can afford this conversion. The Yildiz feels so nice I think it would make a great rook rifle. The only option looks like a custom barrel for my Contender but it just doesn't feel as good as the Yildiz.

[John Taylor]

I have just recently picked up one of the Yildiz folding shotguns in 410 and have sent an email to John Taylor about converting it to 32s&w long. I am waiting to hear back from him and sure hope I can afford this conversion. The Yildiz feels so nice I think it would make a great rook rifle. The only option looks like a custom barrel for my Contender but it just doesn't feel as good as the Yildiz.
send another e-mail,did not get one that I can find.

[rking22]

I have a 32swl Yildiz, makes a need little gun. The trigger will need work, mine is heavy but breaks clean , but not a trigger to fall I. Love with. Gonna work so.e more with mine when it gets warmer. They are a really fun 410 shotgun too:)

[Wayne R. Scott]

Here are 5 shots today from MGM barrel .32 S&W Long at 25 yards. Testing this new to me bullet mold. They weigh 115 grains with powder coating. Too cold and windy to set up chronograph today, but I think this load has potential.

[jes]

You've got me really curious with that MGM barrel, could I get some details from you? What length did you go with, is it a 1 in 10 twist, what contour, have you tried any lighter( maybe 98gr) boolits? Any information you have, I'd be interested in hearing about. Is it their standard 32S&W chamber?

[Kosh75287]

If this has already been suggested, forgive me. Consider a carbine in .357 Magnum. You can shoot lower-powered .38 Special ammo in it. Both rounds are several orders of magnitude more prevalent than .32 caliber anything. Although you might have to hand-feed them, .38 Spl. wadcutters would probably be as quiet out of a carbine-length barrel as any .32 caliber projectile, and probably be more likely to anchor the target, given the flat "point", and greater bore diameter.

Conversely, if things in your world got really crappy really fast, you could load the rifle with full-house .357 Magnum ammunition, and endanger the health and well-being of would-be perpetrators well past 75 yards. With a carbine in .32-20 or .327 Federal, you have a .30 Carbine at best (110gr. @ 1950 f/s), which isn't awful, but lacks the advantages of the .357Mag.

[Wayne R. Scott]

You've got me really curious with that MGM barrel, could I get some details from you? What length did you go with, is it a 1 in 10 twist, what contour, have you tried any lighter( maybe 98gr) boolits? Any information you have, I'd be interested in hearing about. Is it their standard 32S&W chamber?

This their .311 barrel with 1 in 10 twist standard 32 S&W chamber. I had them make it 27 inches long. Chrome Moly finish standard weight.

Yes, I have shot Lee TL-.314-90 semi wadcutter that weighs 93 gr. The 25 yard groups are basically the same.

[jes]

So, if you don't mind me asking, what purpose did you have in mind when you ordered the barrel and are you satisfied with it? If you had it to do again would you change anything? How is the noise level with these loads? Also, how does the rifle balance with the 27" barrel?

[Wayne R. Scott]

So, if you don't mind me asking, what purpose did you have in mind when you ordered the barrel and are you satisfied with it? If you had it to do again would you change anything? How is the noise level with these loads? Also, how does the rifle balance with the 27" barrel?

The purpose was to have a small game rifle that I could reload with cast lead bullets and small amounts of powder. My thinking was that if .22 LR continued to be in very short supply and costing in the neighborhood of 10 cents per round I could reload these .32 S&W for 5 cents. The .32 semi-wadcutter is an effective killer on rabbits, squirrels and raccoons when shot at less than 50 yards. I can count on one hand the number of times I have shot small game past 50 yards in the last 55 years.

At the time that I ordered the barrel Iowa did not allow suppressors to be used. I had the barrel made at 27" so that it would be very quite with the subsonic loads. It balances very well for me. I have a custom thumbhole stock and it fits me well.

I had a T/C Custom shop barrel made in 25/20 that is 23" and it does not balance as well and is considerably louder than the .32.

I think one of the main reasons I had it made was that no one that I know has one. I am not going to use this for 400 yard prairie dogs or to hunt elk. For elk I had my Ruger No. 1V .22/250 re-bored and re-chambered to .338-06.

I had it chambered in .32 S&W with the thinking that if I did not like it I could ream the chamber to .32 H&R and then again to .327 Federal if I did not like the .32 H&R. After shooting this one, I ain't changing any thing.

I just looked at the MGM pricing and it is higher now than when I did this a few years ago. Times change, we have .22 ammo available now and Iowa has allowed the use of suppressors now, but they aren't cheap.

[tejano]

I ordered an MGM barrel in 2014 in 32 H&R mag. At the time I did not see an offering for the 32 Long on the website. In any event, I went with a 21" barrel @ .312", 1-in-16" twist. I mostly shoot 115 gr. RNFP (.313") using 2.5 gr. of Bullseye at 50 yards or less. It is a keeper, but if I had to do it again I would order a longer barrel. Glad to hear that 27" is good just in case I decide I have to have another one!

[GARD72977]

I was wondering if you have any leading issues with long barrels and lead bullets running out of lubee.

Most 32cal molds have very small lube groves.

[Wayne R. Scott]

I was wondering if you have any leading issues with long barrels and lead bullets running out of lubee.

Most 32cal molds have very small lube groves.

I am shooting powder coated bullets using the "Shake and Bake" method. The powder is Carolina Blue from Smoke4320.

[GARD72977]

I have settled on the 32 S&W long. I'm doing a CPA Stevens 44 1/2 so I will have the option of breech loading.

The idea is for a 50yd target gun. Sometimes I may want to stretch it out a little. Looks like a Douglas .312 bore with 1/16 twist. Do you think the little cartridge could group well at 100yds on a calm day. If it is Breech loaded you would have a lot more room for powder.

The reason I chose this round is for economy. I don't want brass that is stronger (thicker) and won't properly seal up with light loads. I'm not looking to hotrod the 32 SW long just wondering what it will do.

[jes]

I think I'm going with the 32 S&W also. I would like to get a barrel for my G2, but at this point, because I'm Canadian, I have to go through an importer, but the importer wants me to buy, and then they just do the importing, but the American mfg's don't want to sell directly to me, but to the importer. I'm waiting to hear back from MGM, they're looking into it. It looks like the only twist they have is 1 in 10. Do you guys think that will work with approximately 100gr cast? Also, if I can work out the shipping details, I was thinking about going all out and getting it octagon, always kind of liked octagon barrels. If that happens, any suggestions where to go for a forearm? I'm thinking fairly slim, schnabel.

[GARD72977]

If you want Octagon the easiest way would be to leave the rear of the barrel round and Octagon from the forearm forward. I have thought about doing that.

[jes]

MGM said that they would do octagon, for a price of course, and basically that's what they do, the rear is round, flats start a little bit forward. I really like the idea of a long barreled, octagon with a trim schnabel forend.

[tejano]

Perhaps there is a .32 long pistol bullseye shooter on our forum who can enlightened us (or just me) but there seems to be a debate about the rate of twist needed for best accuracy at 50 yards. Apparently a hand load that shoots X-ring at 25 won't be near as good at 50 without a barrel with a fast rate of twist. I was happy with a 1 in 16 twist for my MGM barrel because I planned to shoot 115-125 gr. almost exclusively. However, twice I tried Hornady/Speer lead wadcutters. They did well at 25 but were so-so at 50.

[Outpost75]

I cannot speak to bullseye pistol shooting, but I have two rook rifles chambered in the .32 S&W Long with the same reamer, one having 16" twist and the other 10" twist and with proper bullets which fit, there is no practical difference between them at 50 yards, grouping 1-1/2" to 2" for five shots, whereas the 16" twist barrel is limited to bullets no heavier than about 125-130 grains, being more wind sensitive, and I cannot depend upon reliably shooting any better than 3" at 100 yards with 6X scope. The 10" twist barrel will stabilize Accurate 31-155D bullets subsonic with grouping under 2" at 100 yards from a light rifle of less than 5 pounds.

[tejano]

Now you've done it. You have just about "pushed" me into a 1-in-10 twist 27" MGM barrel. :)

[Outpost75]

Now you've done it. You have just about "pushed" me into a 1-in-10 twist 27" MGM barrel. :)

With Accurate 31-155D cast 1:30 tin lead use compressed charge of 4198 or RL7, filling case to within about 1/4" of case mouth and compressing charge about 1/8" with seated bullet.

[tejano]

Makes me wish I was a caster. Do you know of a commercial seller of this bullet?

[Outpost75]

Makes me wish I was a caster. Do you know of a commercial seller of this bullet?

None that I am aware of. The soft alloy is superior for subsonic rifle loads to ensure a positive gas seal at lower pressures. Hard alloy with these loads was an utter failure.

[jes]

Well thanks for all the help guys. I've decided to go with an MGM barrel in 32 H&R. I really couldn't make up my mind between that or the 32 S&W, but I don't think I'll be disappointed. I've got 400 Starline H&R brass on the way and a set of dies. The barrel itself will probably be a couple months. Thanks again for the input.

[NorthMoccasin]

You wont be sorry. I have had a 24" MGM 32 H&R bbl for several years. RCBs 32 98swc, 311008 and 311316 all make nice tiny groups at 50 yds. 3.5 321 is a favorite load. 85gcfp 311419 with 4.0 g also excellent. Deadly on tree rats. BTW my Ruger single seven 327 shoots 32 H&R and 32 Long very accurately. don't know how they would work in a rifle chamber, but they work just fine in a revolver.