My experiences with cast in a stock G22

[blue32]

*Warning: this post contains unpublished load data. Use at your own risk.*

I've been casting for about a year now, reloading for eight, so I'm by no means experienced when it comes to the members on this board. I entered into much caution when I decided to cast for a Glock 22. And I mean straight up Glock 22; no drop in barrel, no coated bullets (those work too), stock everything.

I read SO much regarding the potential hazards whether it be case separations or leading in the poly whatever rifling. I ended up running some tests in a Glock 30 in 45 auto which I've been shooting with a drop in barrel. As far as I could tell, the only disadvantages to using the stock barrel were a 1% increase in brass loss due to overworking the case possibly because the Glock chamber is slightly larger than the drop in variety. Leading wasn't a problem using my locally sourced range scrap which I believe to be at around 11bhn on average.

For the 22, I chose the RCBS 10mm-170-SWC because it closely resembled the profile of the Hornady 180 gr FMJs I was using. I lubed them with RCBS' 80008 using a Lubamatic 2. I chose a seating depth of 1.157" to give enough clearance in the magazine while not being too deep to cause an unwanted rise in pressures. I have been using 5.4 gr. of Win Auto Comp for the 180gr. FMJ load (902 fps) and figured the lighter weight cast boolit would track only marginally faster with the same load.

So out to the range and 50 cast rounds later. Out of ten rounds I get an average velocity of 926, ES of 41, and a SD of 12. No leading. No Glock smile on the cases. No problems.

Its difficult to avoid the group think and to keep from echoing the masses. Besides, commercial cast bullets DID lead my barrel. It just so happens that a softer boolit fired at moderate velocity did not have the same result. Moral of the story: don't be afraid to test for yourself.

[smokeater]

I had the same results in my G19, wife's G17 and my G42. Trick I think is for alloy to not be hard(my alloy was essentially the same as yours). I have pushed a LEE333-125 to almost 1100fps with no leading. Course my barrels are well broke in but I started lead early. CAUTION: Use the above info at your own risk.

[Walter Laich]

the softer lead of the bullets allows them to obturate up against the bore and keep gases from getting by and melting the bullets.

doing your own testing is much better than reading about others' efforts.

[gloob]

the softer lead of the bullets allows them to obturate up against the bore and keep gases from getting by and melting the bullet




I have an alternate theory. Based on:
1. I don't think bullets bump up much, if at all, in a stock Glock barrel. As evidence:
a. Soft wheelweight bullets will nearly plug my Glock bores with a single shot, if they are even slightly undersized at the base from, say, case swaging. These soft bullets are not bumping up, at all.
b. Same reloads shoot very decent in other guns.
c. Same bullet, same load, but loaded with oversized expander = no fouling in Glock, even after 1k rounds.
2. Even with properly sized bullets and expanded cases, the harder commercial cast bullets leave fouling in my stock glock barrels. It's a full-circumference haze that gradually builds up more towards the muzzle. This is totally different than the lead fouling of an undersized bullet being melted, which is much thicker streaks of lead going full length of the barrel starting with shot #1.


I think the long and gradual leade of the stock glock barrel allows more gas to pass the bullet before it seals. And this blowby removes too much of the lube. And the harder, higher antimony bullet needs that lube to prevent "antimony wash" from building up in the bore. Also, this gradual lead in to the rifling is maybe why bullets don't bump up for jack in a Glock... IME. YMMV.

So I guess it depends on what kind of fouling OP is seeing. Perhaps it's one or the other. But IME, commercial bullets will always foul a Glock... mildly and over time. Nothing major. Just an "antimony wash" that needs a decent cleaning every few hundred rounds. This has been my observation with Glocks in multiple calibers. If OP was getting true lead streaking with commercial, then I would attribute that to undersize bullets, yeah. But I bet his own bullets are larger in diameter. To reiterate, IME, boolits don't bump up in a Glock barrel. The only thing that makes a bullet obturate is sudden deceleration of the front of the bullet when it hits the rifling. Pressure doesn't do it. Pressure hits the bullet from anywhere gas is in contact.

My bet is the leade of Glock doesn't decelerate the bullet with enough peak force to induce significant obturation. This is unique Glock problem #1, which can result in gross lead fouling due to even slightly undersized bullets, even if they are soft. And that the long and generous freebore combined with the gradually tapered leade allows excessive gas blowby before the bullet can seal the bore, which is unique Glock problem #2, which can result in "antimony wash" with harder bullets, in particular, due to loss of lube.

[sleeper1428]

I've shot cast boolits exclusively in my G22 since purchasing it in the early 1990's and I have to agree with your assessment. I cast almost all my handgun boolits with my own alloy mix which is essentially Magnum Alloy - also known as Hardball or Taracorp Magnum Alloy - and is around 92-6-2 (lead - antimony - tin) with a BH of around 16-18. From the time of purchase until just a few years ago I used the stock Glock barrel and never noticed a problem with leading. But I will also state that I made it a point to clean the barrel at the end of each range session or every 200 or so rounds, which ever came first. When the Lone Wolf cut rifling barrels came out, I purchased one for my G22 as well as for my G20 which had also been fed a steady diet of cast boolits through the stock barrel without a leading problem, again following the above mentioned cleaning schedule. I've seen no leading with the new barrels but I still clean them on the afore mentioned schedule. I guess I'm just one of those old geezers who doesn't feel right putting away a firearm that hasn't been cleaned and maybe that's why I've never had a problem with barrel leading in my Glock pistols. To those shooters who feel it's a 'badge of honor' to be able to say that they never or almost never clean their firearms, I say good for you. If it works for you then don't let my experience influence you in the slightest. As I say, I'm from what you'd call the 'old school' and I probably clean my firearms as much from habit as from necessity.

sleeper1428

[Lloyd Smale]

I own 7 glocks right now and none of them lead up. I shoot an alloy of about 15 bhn for the most part but do cast hps out of an alloy that goes about 9bhn without any problems. Ive shoot both conventionally lubed bullets with a lube I make that's basically felix lube with a bit of commercial hard lube mixed in so that bullets store better in the heat. When I got my 20 I figured this one will lead when roared. So I bought a wolf barrel for it. Did some experimenting and found that neither barrel leaded and the factory barrel was actually more accurate with cast then the wolf and it had a slightly larger chamber that wasn't ammo sensitive like the tight wolf one was. Sold the wolf barrel and live happily with the factory one.

[xringshutr]

My best experience is with a round I would have thought to be a pretty difficult pistol cartridge to shoot with cast without leading up quickly. The 357 Sig in a G31. I love the cartridge. Great concept and you can load it hot or mild. Factory barrel.....of course. No leading problems with standard pistol loading procedures on my LNL AP. Slight bell of the case, VERY slight crimp to avoid reducing diameter of the bullet but keep it from moving in that short little neck. I've ran thousands of them through the press and subsequently the G31 with ZERO leading issues. The little Lee 358-125 RNFP works like a champ. I size all my 9mm pistol bullets to .358 and have none of the leading problems that everyone seems to have, even running them on the top side of the load manual for a particular powder. If a 9mm or 357 Sig will chamber with a .358 bullet....run it. You will most likely be happy.
Many of the above posts keep talking about hardness (not all). SIZE is arguably the most important factor.....not hardness. No pun intended there...[smilie=1:

[ioon44]

I have shot a lot of cast bullets out of stock G 22 & G 19 most all of the bullets were 6-2-92 alloy with wax lube or Hi Tek coating. The Hi Tek coating is far better than wax lube, I never did have a leading problem with either lube system but I paid close attention to my barrels and cleaned them regularly.

I bought some Wolf after market barrels for the G 22 this was a total waste of time and money.