Toughest stock finish?

[fatelk]

I'm helping a friend refinish the stock on his old Marlin 30-30. He is hard on his guns. His job is wildlife management, and his rifles get more hard use in a year than most hunting rifles get in a lifetime. He's also not real gentle with them.

What would be the toughest finish for the wood? It doesn't necessarily need to be the best looking, just something that will hold up well to wear and weather.

[CraigOK]

What about an oil, I use boiled linseed oil on Axe handles, shovel handles, etc. Not sure if thats a viable option, but it wouldn't wear off and would protect from moisture

[Hickok]

The spray on polyurethane like Remington uses on their BDL stocks is like a liquid plastic.

Me, I prefer Caseys True-Oil. When you nick or scratch it, you can simply put a dab on your finger and touch it up, buff it a little and looks like new.

[quack1]

I wanted a tough finish for the shotgun I use for duck hunting. After stripping and cleaning the wood, I "painted" it with Accraglas. To keep from having too many runs, I used 2 thinner coats, rather than one thick one. Just remember to scuff up the first coat with sandpaper before adding the second. After everything was cured up, I wet sanded with 320 grit to smooth the surface and knock off the shine. Still going strong after about 25 years.
Before finishing, I applied release to the action and spacer and glassed the inletting. Also, don't forget to coat the wood under the buttplate and grip cap, too.

[M-Tecs]

Clear epoxy with a poly top coat.

[nicholst55]

Brownells sells a spray-0n epoxy finish, though I don't remember what it's called and I'm too drunk to look it up. Available in both matte and gloss.

[xdmalder]

Toughest would be truck bed liner. But I also would use Tru oil. Easy to touch up

[Edward]

Tung oil sanding between coats will protect and show off whatever grain there is and is easily repaired

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I use Helmsman Polyurethane Spar Varnish, thinned with mineral spirits, 1 part varnish 2 parts thinner, wiped on, 4 -8 coats, fine sanded/rubbed out (600 grit) - very tough and 'weather-proof'. For extreme conditions, spray-on Rustoleum camo paints.

[Petrol & Powder]

The polyurethane finishes are basically plastic. Same thing for the Remington finish mentioned above. The Epoxy with clear coat mentioned by M-Tec would take the polyurethane to the next level and would be my choice if I wanted it to look something like real wood when done.

The problem with poly finishes is once you do get a break in the finish water can get under it. That's why the poly over epoxy makes the best sense.

The truck bed liner is probably the best in terms of protection but the worst in terms of appearance. It does have the advantage of being easily "repaired" if damaged. At that point you're almost in synthetic stock territory.


Oiled wood can work if the oil is re-applied as needed but I've never seen oiled wood that wouldn't swell when truly soaked with water.

[John Boy]

Multiple coats of tung oil & boiled linseed - rubbed in
Stock can be refinished for scratches & water blotching

[ulav8r]

Oil finishes can look very good, but they are not waterproof. A heavy coat of wax will help them repel water, but it needs to be renewed often. Polyurethane is waterproof, but it will not soak deeper than common scratches. Epoxy is near waterproof, but will scratch nearly as easy as poly. Most durable finish would be bed liner over poly.

[Iron Whittler]

If you know some one that works at a bowling ally, ask them for some of the clear coating they use on the bowling pins. Extremely tough and scratch resistant.:Fire:

[flounderman]

the helmsman spray spar urethane. I spray the first coat or two and after that rub thin coats. It is water proof and solvent proof. It resists, being sanded. Do the inside of the stock and under the butt plate. moisture migrates. This finish is flexible and won't check or crack

[Texas by God]

Primer then auto paint. As weatherproof as it gets. You did say looks wasn't important.

[runfiverun]

super glue.

[fatelk]

Good idea! :) No, he wouldn't go for that. I suggested finding a synthetic stock but he was not impressed. I guess he likes wood over plastic. I don't think I've ever seen anyone so hard on a rifle. This gun isn't that old, but the original finish was almost completely worn off, and the buttstock is cracked apart pretty good at the tang. I know I can fix that up nicely with epoxy. I asked him if he had to beat a bear to death with it.

I'll suggest the spar urethane or maybe the epoxy. The one concern I had with epoxy was that as I looked around for info on them everything said high gloss. Anyone use the epoxy before to get a stock with a more subdued, old-school look? I know looks aren't too important here, but I expect that he wouldn't be too happy with an overly shiny stock.

[runfiverun]

I was serious.
super glue is used as a stock covering.

[fatelk]

Interesting; I've never heard of it before. Does it hold up well?

[Hickory]

If he's that hard on his guns he might be ahead just buying extra wood for it, epoxy laminated wood comes to mind as durable.

[oldred]

I have never heard of using super glue for a stock finish and I would think it to not only be extremely expensive but it sounds like a nightmare to apply! What I do use super glue for is repairing small cracks in stocks, this stuff is like magic for cracks that are too small to get conventional glues into. Super glue will wick itself down into even hairline cracks and contrary to popular belief it does not need pressure to cure, it just takes it a bit longer to air cure. I was skeptical about this when I first heard about it so I tried several different types of cracks from hairline to some open a bit more using scrap walnut wood and upon cutting them open it was absolutely amazing at just how deeply this stuff had wicked down into even tight cracks! Add to that the fact that it's very strong and it becomes a very useful item to have on the work bench, of course I am talking about the liquid and not the gel.


Another thing about super glue over a large area like a gunstock, not sure how it could applied, is that in the large amounts needed it could easily kill you! Good gosh even the fumes from a few drops of the stuff will take your breath away if you get a whiff of it and those fumes will even burn your eyes! As far as application obviously you couldn't rub it on with your fingers and I seriously doubt a brush would work, I would think a spray gun would instantly stick the moving parts not to mention the nightmare from the overspray so how is it applied?

[johnson1942]

if you can find out what browning uses on the wood stocks on their guns its the toughest finish ive ever seen.

[country gent]

I have used Super Glue to finish Pen and Pencil sets Ive turned from fancy woods. Its a hard durable finish. I simply apply to the wood in a light coat with the blanks turning slow in the wood lathe. This helps keep the coating even for me. I let it cure and then lightly sand and polish several coats. The oil finishes are easier to touch up but if he dosnt do that then....... An epoxy finsih can be hard and durable but also a pain to touch up when the time comes.

[gnoahhh]

A couple thoughts.

1) Epoxy is great- tough & waterproof. It's also prone to degrading from UV light.

2) Epoxy as a sealer coat is great. Sand and re-coat. If you don't sand between coats, at least give it a thorough wash with acetone or some other volatile solvent. The idea is to remove the amine blush that settles on the surface of epoxy as it cures. (You don't need to do this if you "hot coat" the second coat before the first coat completely cures.)

3) If you go with epoxy as a base coat, protect it with a good varnish. A marine grade spar varnish is excellent. That stuff has to survive in a more hostile environment than what any gun stock has to endure. Polyurethane isn't as good in that respect. Poly is also not as elastic as spar varnish which causes it to potentially crack under harsh swings in environmental conditions.

4) If you use varnish, use gloss- again with the better UV resistance, better than with semi-gloss or matte. If you don't want a shiny finish, rub it out when done to dull the gloss and then wax it to bring up a nice luster. (De-greased 0000 steel wool is ok in a pinch, bronze wool is better- microscopic bits of steel embedded in the finish can develop into a case of brown measles after getting wet in the rain.)

[M-Tecs]

A couple thoughts.

1) Epoxy is great- tough & waterproof. It's also prone to degrading from UV light.



The www.westsystem.com marine grade epoxy is designed to prevent UV degradation. It is outstanding.

I will try the spar varnish on my next stock.

Nice writeup.

[bruce drake]

That Acra-Glass finish that was suggested is tough as nails. And dang hard to get off later on as well!

[44man]

Tru Oil has been my best. Linseed is NOT water proof. Tung gets a so-so.
Spar varnish sucks from years of boat work and outside house work. Interior urethane holds up better.
I think Rem uses an epoxy because nothing will dissolve it. It must be scraped off.
The factory does not do as good as we do. Seen a TC stock ruined and swelled so bad from rain I had to refit and sand the heck out of it. Mine lasted a week of steady rain with no damage at all-Tru Oil.
Touch up is what is asked of course and some finishes can't be done.
I made a new threshold at the door from oak and used spar varnish, lasted a month so I used interior poly on it and it lasted years. My boats never lasted long with spar, scrape and redo got old. Rotten wood to be replaced. Don't use it on a gun.
To scratch and gouge wood from rough use means a complete refinish and some scratches will not swell out with heat and moisture so you sand more. Then some get below the metal and make a mess.

[gnoahhh]

There is no discernible difference between linseed and tung oil. None. In fact, finish manufacturers use them interchangeably, depending on whatever's cheapest at the moment.

As for spar varnish sucking- I don't know where you live or what brand varnish you have been using but your experience is contrary to local protocols. (Google "Annapolis" and get a whiff of of a burgeoning maritime industry.) I have been building, varnishing, sailing boats here for 20+ years, and hobnob with guys who have made a 50+ year career out of finishing brightwork. Our collective experience belies the statements you have made. If one mentions polyurethane in the same breath as outdoor finish work, one gets looked at like he had two heads.

[44man]

Helmsman of course. you can't deny that you have to work your butt off every year to get boats in shape. Even teak wood. Seems boats need pulled to dry dock, scraped and painted every year.
a gun can last 200 years.

[gnoahhh]

Try Epifanes. Highest solids content of most any spar varnish. Lifetime on guns, every couple years on boats. If the boat/brightwork is covered during winter months, even longer. I use Helmsman on gun stocks a lot, and like it. But for a "best" grade finish, I spring for the Epifanes.

As far as needing to address the hull, it depends entirely on where the boat lives.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The harder and thicker the finish, the more disastrous it will look when something does go wrong, and that can happen as long as wood can be dented by a blow. There is a lot to be said for an oil finish, and although the stocking on a lever action may not be the ideal for benchrest accuracy, it shouldn't get any worse with the absorption of atmospheric moisture.

Laminated wood stocks, knife scales etc. are often stabilized by impregnation with resin, and there are surely firms which will do that with a well-stripped existing stock. What they do is place it in a vacuum chamber to extract air from the pores. Then when it is immersed and the vacuum is released, air pressure or artificial pressure forces the resin into the pores.

Superglue isn't a bad idea either. I saturate the end grain under buttplates and pistol grip caps. I can buy a complete card of little tubes in a discount store for little more than the hardware stores charge for one, and while I don't know if they are as good adhesives, they should be fine for wiping off as they fill the pores. Don't sit on whatever you wiped it off with.

I recently bought a pair of RayBan spectacle frames for my old lenses, and despite the same code number, found the lenses kept falling out. Epoxy doesn't stick well to that plastic. So I bought some of the very thin surfacing tissue used in glass fibre laminates, and used it to fill the gap. Epoxy will stick it to the ground glass edges, and it fits mechanically into the grooved frame. It may be that a layer of the same stuff would be invisible under thick lacquer, sanded smooth between coats.

[gnoahhh]

The purpose behind multiple layers of varnish isn't to build a thick finish. Rather, to create a smooth mirror-like finish. I typically apply 8-10 coats, which if I didn't block it out with 320x between coats would yield a very thick finish with a lot of depth but with a very uneven ripply surface. In the end, one of my finishes has probably an effective thickness of about 3, maybe 4, coats of varnish were it simply brushed on with no sanding between coats- but the pores are evenly filled and the surface is dead flat. Rubbed out and waxed and people often mistake it for a high grade oil finish. Moisture protection is greater than with oil by a magnitude of about a zillion, and scratch repair is no worse than with oil if you know what you're doing. Repairing scratches is tedious no matter what finish is used, oil included, if an invisible repair is the goal.

[44man]

Filling the grain is the hardest. Many coats and taking down to the surface. Epoxy does not shrink but is hard to work with. Special sprayers are needed.
Gun makers can't afford to sand stocks so how they do it is crazy.
To fill grain with any oil that shrinks takes time and work. Linseed is the worst, takes years. Military stocks were boiled in oil to penetrate. Linseed was used for house paint to let moisture move back and forth. Latex came and houses peel paint.
Spar varnish gets moisture under and peels. Wood soaked in linseed is better.

[gnoahhh]

The reason the Armories and commercial manufacturers use/used straight oil was/is because it's the cheapest route to take, not because it's the best finish.

I had an old friend who was an Artificer in WWII, ETO. (Ordnance dept. front line "small arms fixer") Part of his training involved "field trips" to Springfield Armory (his training center was somewhere in Massachusetts). He told me about their stock finishing department where they soaked new stocks in hot oil, huge numbers at a time in huge vats. He also said he asked once what oil they used and got the reply "linseed or tung, whichever the purchasing agents got the best deal on". Barney, my friend, said he kept a big jug of boiled linseed oil in his mobile workshop to slather on gun stocks after repairs before they went back into service. Coincidentally, he was the guy who turned me into a spar varnish enthusiast.

[izzyjoe]

I don't know what Winchester used on there rifles many years ago, but from the examples I've seen they have stood the test of time. Probably linseed oil, but I have read that there is a difference between linseed oil, and boiled linseed oil?

[oldred]

Maybe I am the odd man here but I use clear lacquer and it seems to work quite well, at least for me. It adheres well to the wood and again, at least to me, it seems to hold up well to moisture but then I don't allow my guns to get wet so if I got caught in the rain I might see that one a bit differently. What I really like about the stuff is that it dries in minutes to recoat and in an hour it can sanded and buffed to either a shine or a satin sheen, 0000 steel wool followed by buffing with coarse cloth will leave a nice satin finish that will highlight the color and grain or use a buffing compound for a high gloss if that's what's wanted. Makes a beautiful finish and can be done MUCH quicker than about anything else, it doesn't shrink and is easily spot repaired. There is probably a good reason it's not used more for this but it sure works good for me!

[huntrick64]

The toughest I have ever used (but not my favorite due to the sheen) is what is called the Massey Finish (named after the late Jay Massey from Alaska). Mix 2-part epoxy glue (like devcon in the syringe) just like you are going to glue something up, then cut it with 5 parts acetone. Mix well to dilute glue. Rub it on with one pass, set your wood aside for a few hours, then buff and reapply. This stuff is thinner than water and a little goes a long ways. It will take at least 5 coats and I have done as many as 10. Jay used it on wood bows and wood arrows in the harsh elements of Alaska. It held up well there. It is a very hard yet clear finish.

[seppos]

I remember that in Mythbusters they tested the toughness of some truck bed liner paint.. was it even bulletproof in someways?

somehow the links did not work but the product was line-x
hope this works
https://youtu.be/30Q4HK7wcJE

S

[44man]

Boiled is not boiled at all, just solvents added to speed drying. It is flax seed oil that takes forever to dry. Even what is called boiled can take months or years to dry. Tung is not better but will dry faster, pressed from nuts of the Tung tree in China. It is really boiled so it does not wrinkle.
Wood finishing https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Alder_with_and_without_tung_oil.jpg/220px-Alder_with_and_without_tung_oil.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alder_with_and_without_tung_oil.jpg)

Showing the golden effect of polymerized tung oil versus bare wood.


Tung oil is very popular today because of 2 properties: First it is natural or "green" product when it has dried. Secondly, after it cures (5 to 30 days, weather/temtature related), the result is a very hard and easily repaired finish. This is why it is used on boat decks and now on floors. The oil is often diluted with hydrocarbon thinner so that the viscosity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity) is very low and enables the oil to penetrate the finest grain woods. This thinning vehicle evaporates within 15 to 20 minutes and results in a totally green residual finish. As mentioned above, when applied in many fine/thinner coats over wood, tung oil slowly cures to a satin "wetted wood" look with slight golden tint. Tung oil resists liquid water better than any other pure oil finish and does not darken noticeably with age and is claimed to be less susceptible to mould than linseed oil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linseed_oil).[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tung_oil#cite_note-7) Most importantly, of all the oil finishes, tung oil is the only drying oil that will polymerize 100% (completely harden). Linseed oil, for example, never completely hardens.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]
While tung oil has become popular as an environmentally friendly wood finish, it should be noted that many products labelled as "tung oil finishes" are deceptively labelled: polymerized oils, wiping varnishes, and oil/varnish blends have all been known to be sold as tung oil finishes (sometimes containing no tung oil at all), and all the above contain solvents and/or chemical driers.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tung_oil#cite_note-8) Product packaging will usually clearly state if it is pure tung oil. For example, Danish Oil has been thought to have tung oil in it. However you go to the manufacturer's material data source page you will see that tung oil is not mentioned. [1] (https://www.rustoleum.com/%7E/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Documents/RustoleumUSA/TDS/English/CBG/Watco/WAT-02_Danish_Oil_TDS.ashx)
Heating tung oil to about 500 °F (260 °C)[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tung_oil#cite_note-9) in an oxygen-free environment will substantially increase the viscosity and film-forming quality of the product. Most polymerized tung oils are sold mixed with mineral spirits to make them easier to work with.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] Limonene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limonene) and D-limonene are less toxic alternatives for mineral spirits.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

[seppos]

If I understood correctly the person who opened the thread was only talking about wooden stock, not wood finish.
As he also mention that it doesn not have to look pritty.. just to be practical.

S

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I'll suggest the spar urethane or maybe the epoxy. The one concern I had with epoxy was that as I looked around for info on them everything said high gloss. Anyone use the epoxy before to get a stock with a more subdued, old-school look? I know looks aren't too important here, but I expect that he wouldn't be too happy with an overly shiny stock.

I think different products give different degrees of satisfaction to people who want a mirror gloss. I remember seeing a product in Ace Hardware which would take the gloss off paint or varnish, but it might go excessive matt, and some things won't work on epoxy that do on other finishes.

Very fine abrasive powder, such as pumice or any of the really fine ones used by gemstone polishers, on a soft pad would probably do it. As usual eBay is a good place to browse for things all sorts of different retailers might have.

[44man]

Wood is hard, It must be dried and seasoned perfect. Then it must be protected. it will swell, warp and twist and shed finish. Beauty and practical go hand in hand. No easy way. Do it right and wood will live forever and be the best looking. Finish is where it is.

[gnoahhh]

Boiled is not boiled at all, just solvents added to speed drying. It is flax seed oil that takes forever to dry. Even what is called boiled can take months or years to dry. Tung is not better but will dry faster, pressed from nuts of the Tung tree in China. It is really boiled so it does not wrinkle.
Wood finishing

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Alder_with_and_without_tung_oil.jpg/220px-Alder_with_and_without_tung_oil.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alder_with_and_without_tung_oil.jpg)

Showing the golden effect of polymerized tung oil versus bare wood.


Tung oil is very popular today because of 2 properties: First it is natural or "green" product when it has dried. Secondly, after it cures (5 to 30 days, weather/temtature related), the result is a very hard and easily repaired finish. This is why it is used on boat decks and now on floors. The oil is often diluted with hydrocarbon thinner so that the viscosity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity) is very low and enables the oil to penetrate the finest grain woods. This thinning vehicle evaporates within 15 to 20 minutes and results in a totally green residual finish. As mentioned above, when applied in many fine/thinner coats over wood, tung oil slowly cures to a satin "wetted wood" look with slight golden tint. Tung oil resists liquid water better than any other pure oil finish and does not darken noticeably with age and is claimed to be less susceptible to mould than linseed oil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linseed_oil).[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tung_oil#cite_note-7) Most importantly, of all the oil finishes, tung oil is the only drying oil that will polymerize 100% (completely harden). Linseed oil, for example, never completely hardens.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]
While tung oil has become popular as an environmentally friendly wood finish, it should be noted that many products labelled as "tung oil finishes" are deceptively labelled: polymerized oils, wiping varnishes, and oil/varnish blends have all been known to be sold as tung oil finishes (sometimes containing no tung oil at all), and all the above contain solvents and/or chemical driers.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tung_oil#cite_note-8) Product packaging will usually clearly state if it is pure tung oil. For example, Danish Oil has been thought to have tung oil in it. However you go to the manufacturer's material data source page you will see that tung oil is not mentioned. [1] (https://www.rustoleum.com/%7E/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Documents/RustoleumUSA/TDS/English/CBG/Watco/WAT-02_Danish_Oil_TDS.ashx)
Heating tung oil to about 500 °F (260 °C)[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tung_oil#cite_note-9) in an oxygen-free environment will substantially increase the viscosity and film-forming quality of the product. Most polymerized tung oils are sold mixed with mineral spirits to make them easier to work with.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] Limonene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limonene) and D-limonene are less toxic alternatives for mineral spirits.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

Just another example of Wikipedia not being the trusted source for knowledge that everybody seems to think it is. There are so many errors in that statement I don't know where to begin.

[44man]

Tru oil has linseed oil , Stoddard solvent and unknown modified oils. Before it there was a stock finish I forget but it never dried, maybe a year but it picked up dust. I used it once and tossed it. Tung does not dry fast. It is still good in the end. Making furniture I use a wiping urethane most. I would use Tru Oil but need more then the small bottle.

[georgerkahn]

Function as criteria over most else, I'd use what woodsman in the snowy, wet northeast here have successfully used on most all wood handled tools, from axes to adzes to even cross-cut saw handles... and, their favorite "woods" firearm (often a '94 Win in .30-30). After they sand away any varnish or other lo-permeability finish on the furniture, they pour heated linseed oil on it. Let it soak / hand for about a week. Then, melt some 100% beeswax, and apply that, rubbing it in with an old towel, or even tee-shirt. Years back I had a hoe-handle Marlin 336 I tried it on, and to me the finish has been awesome! Best, is if it should wear, or scratch, it's not too tough to just apply some more beeswax.
Just perhaps another approach -- I'm sure there's as many finish suggestions as there are guys and guns -- with certianly many working well.
BEST!
geo

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Just another example of Wikipedia not being the trusted source for knowledge that everybody seems to think it is. There are so many errors in that statement I don't know where to begin.

That is no reason not to begin at all, though. The bit about solvents added to speed drying isn't from Wikipedia. I don't know if any suppliers boil it - my guess is that some do and some don't. But it is chemical driers, not solvents, that promote drying, and as it is chemical driers that do the same in proprietary finishes like Tru-oil and Lin-speed which undoubtedly do dry, I don't think they are really a lost cause.

[44man]

Linseed is very good because it lets moisture in and out while protecting the wood. It breaths. But wood can still swell so for furniture, wax was put on. I don't think it was ever boiled and why they call it that is confusing. Problem is it dries slow or never at all. Best use was oil based paint so it breathed. less peeling but moisture behind wood siding still gave it hell. I refuse to scrape and paint a house, All mine is covered in vinyl or aluminum. Lady where I hunt has an old house and has spent years scraping and painting but she needs vents top and bottom. No moisture barrier or insulation. Her paint is good for 6 months or less. There is more rotten wood then you can imagine.
If you use Tru Oil like I do, you can rub it out without breaking layers and linseed on a felt pad with rottenstone does good. Even OOOO steel wool will make a nice finish. Break through the last layer and you will cuss.

[seppos]

In my youth I used to work in company that produced impregnated wooden telephone and electric poles. First the batch was put to a container and the vacuum was sucked inside it. That was kept about one hour so that it will suck out the moisture from the wood. After that the solution was pumped in and the container was pressurized. That pressed the solution to the wood making it more suitable for harash conditions.

If I remember right, the M-14 stocks (sniper version) where also infuzed with either polyester or epoxy resin..
(the complete book of US sniping, P.H Senich)

S

[leeggen]

You could use shilac and oil. It forms a very good finish and if scratched a quick touch up and it is like new. Dip a ball of cotton into a little oil and then dip it into the shilac and rub on the stock , continue until a nice clean finish is formed. Try it on a peice of wood and se for yourself.
CD

[Ballistics in Scotland]

In my youth I used to work in company that produced impregnated wooden telephone and electric poles. First the batch was put to a container and the vacuum was sucked inside it. That was kept about one hour so that it will suck out the moisture from the wood. After that the solution was pumped in and the container was pressurized. That pressed the solution to the wood making it more suitable for harash conditions.

If I remember right, the M-14 stocks (sniper version) where also infuzed with either polyester or epoxy resin..
(the complete book of US sniping, P.H Senich)

S

Was that oil or creosote, though? Military stocks were sometimes linseed impregnated that way, which preserved them very well, but what is deep down is unlikely to dry, and may weep out in future years. Nobody puts his cheek up against a telephone pole, and soldiers aren't enlisted for their recreation, but the average modern shooter looks for a finish that just sits there and does nothing.

[seppos]

The stuff that they used to impregnate the poles was old CCA type .. Serious stuff as it has some copper, crome and arsenic salts in it.. Once a workmate of mine forget to tighten all the bolts from the container. I pumped up the solution to container and put the compressor on to rise up the pressure to 8 bar. After that we went to see if there is any leaks.. normally there might be small drible of liquid comming from the container but this time there was like a spray from firehose straight up.. about 20 feet high.. I dashed in and tried quickly to tighten the bolts.. after maybe 30 seconds i realized that I am fighting against that big compressor and that I can not win that fight so I run in and stopped the compressor, drop the stuff down to underground storage, tighten the bolts, pumped up the liquid back to the container, put the compressor on, checked the leaks and finally after that had the chance to remove my totally wet poisonous working clothes and had a shower.. Must say that some few weeks after that my appearance was not the prittyest as that stuff had some effect to my face.. they stopped to use the CCA in 2004 and went to less poisonous stuff afterwards..

What comes to rifle stock and M21 :
Quote from the book that i mentioned page 253:
Specially treated NM Stocks where used as follows:
The socks where placed in large container. Lid is toggle bolted down, temperature raised aprox 300 deg. Turning all the moisure to steam, a vacuum pump is turned on for an hour to suck moisture out. While in this temperature the epoxy is pumped in and pressure rised to 100 psi for an hour. The pressure is then slowly lowered and stocks removed and put to curing oven for 3 days.

That was the treatment that they used for M21 sniper stock. Later on they started to use real composite stocks, but wood can also be treated for harash conditions so that the apearance looks like real wood.

Was that oil or creosote, though? Military stocks were sometimes linseed impregnated that way, which preserved them very well, but what is deep down is unlikely to dry, and may weep out in future years. Nobody puts his cheek up against a telephone pole, and soldiers aren't enlisted for their recreation, but the average modern shooter looks for a finish that just sits there and does nothing.

S

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Obviously that is economical only for people with a lot of work to do. But I am sure there are wood finishing firms that would take in an odd stock.

I can heartily recommend "The White Rhino Hotel", Bartle Bull's novel of hunting and land-grabbing dirty work in Kenya in the earlies. There is a rather good scene where the odious villain gets creosoted. There is an inspection glass in the autoclave too.

[seppos]

I worked in that place in 1980s. It was only about half a kilometer from my home. Was established in 1950s there. I used to hear some storys from the past when they did not know about the dangers of the stuff. One summer my grand parents lost some cows when this facility had a spillout. The cows drink poluted water from a pond and died afterwards. Also there was some talks about one retired worker whos hairs turned green before he died. Maybe the copper salts from the solution went to his system and in one point extracted to his hair..
Creosote was considered carsinogenic also, causing cancer, bad stuff.. all of them.

S

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Now that rings a bell or two from the distant past. Scheele's Green, usually a dye but occasionally an insecticidal treatment, was a green copper arsenite, and extremely nasty stuff, although it isn't even known for sure how it got from wallpaper to the human metabolism. Arsenic, like other kinds of heavy metal poisoning, isn't eliminated from the system, so a tiny dose over a long period can have a cumulative effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheele%27s_Green

That probably includes the Imperial metabolism, although it has been much disputed. There is at least one old painting of Napoleon's house which shows the offending kind of wallpaper (not paint). Arsenic has been found in samples of Napoleon's hair, but it has been argued that there were other ways it could have got there, including posthumous ones. I remember one writer who had virtually obtained permission to open that porphyry sarcophagus in the Invalides and investigate the Emperor's remains, and was warmly congratulated on his efforts to confirm the claims that the wicked British murdered him. But he said that if it was murder, which was possible, he thought it much more likely that one of his French entourage did it. Permission promptly receded into the far distance.

It is a great pity creosote has vanished from the market, at least for the amateur, for I think the danger, like that of many another thing, depended on unwise use. Other compounds, especially those in use today, are far less effective. Not long ago I got the chance to examine a shed I built and brush creosoted in 1968, and there wasn't a trace of rot.

[seppos]

I know. The old stuff worked. In that place where I worked the perimeter fence posts where treated in 1950s and where still standing in 1993 when they closed the place.
Some of the bigger power lines still has creosote poles as they do withstand the weather well.

S

[mac1911]

I have had very nice results from Minwax tung oil finish. apply as directed and its not glossy. you can add several coats for a "more gloss" look with out that poly over the wood look.
I also have used tru oil and pure tung oil. I like how tung oil looks

[BigEyeBob]

My Cogswell & Harrison sxs shotgun is 118 years old it has an hand rubbed oil finish thats is in excellent condition and easy to touch up when scratched or scraped. The top English gun makers still use hand rubbed oil finishes on thier best guns . They use a mixture of linseed and other substances to finish thier gun and rifle stocks . The statement in a post above "linseed never dries " is absolute rubbish . Linseed needs heat to dry ,the heat is generated using the hand and very small amounts of oil ,and rubbed in with the hand and fingers until it gets hot with friction and left to dry over a couple of days depending on your weather conditions .Purdeys use a mixture called slacum oil on thier guns ,you can google it and find the recipe on line .All the firearms that I refinish or build from new have a hand rubbed linseed mutiple layered oil finish , it usually takes up to six weeks for me to get the level of finish that suits me ,rubbing the entire stock by hand .None of my stocks remain sticky or tacky after they are finished .
I live in a tropical environment with long spells of extreme heat and humidity and do not experience any problems with my finished stocks .Right now its wet season tropical down pours are common when out hunting ,Im more worried about the finish on the metal parts than getting the woodwork wet .

[Gewehr-Guy]

A good wood finish is pine tar, turpentine, and linseed oil, about 1/3 measure each in a tin can, heat it up on the wood stove and brush it on. Heat the stock over stove or use a heat gun to help it soak in.If it seems to thick use a bit more turpentine.I believe this is the type of finish used on my Finn m-39 rifle. I also use this on pitchfork,shovel and hammer handles,as it gives a good grip but not tacky. This is for working guns not collector items. Look up LOGCABINLOOMS PINE TAR on U-Tube he shows how to use the stuff.

[BigEyeBob]

None of my firearms are regarded as collector items by myself. If they dont shoot they get moved on.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Here is some material published in www.lcsmith.org (http://www.lcsmith.org) in 2008, including the receipe for slacum oil. I'll admit some of it surprises me, though considering the sources, I am sure it will work. I think it is deep penetration of linseed oil that may not dry, and very likely they are right in saying a day's immersion at atmospheric pressure should be all right. They advocate the use of raw linseed over dried boiled linseed (i.e. with drier) and it may be that that drier still does the needful.

At least in the UK terebene paint and varnish drier and red alkanet root chips are available on eBay, although there are other and unsuitable alkanet roots, used as food additives. I've used red oil, made by immersing the chips for several months in as little oil as will cover them.

"This was submitted to HandloaderMagazine, Jul/Aug1970 by Harvey A Donaldson who said it was told to him by Frank Lefever, son ofD M Lefever. He stated this was the method used in finishing stocks by Dan Lefever and other U.S.gunmakers and gunsmiths including Billinghurst, Brockway, Morgan James, and A.O. Zischang."

1. Place the stock in a sheet iron tank with enough linseed oil to cover stock. Leave the stock for a day or so depending upon density of the walnut, a harder denser grain wood requiring longer than a more porous grain wood. Next, remove the stock and stand to drain and leave for several days at least.

Very Important: let stock dry completely; this first coatmust be completely oxidized by the air before proceeding.

2. The next operation is to stop further penetration of the oil. It should have penetrated about 1/16" or so at this point, deeper of course in an open grain piece of wood than a closer grained one. Two formulas are given for this step depending upon wood density:

For softer walnut: Take 4 oz of boiled linseed oil and mix in 3 oz of white shellac that has been cut in alcohol, 1 oz. SparVarnish , 10 drops VeniceTurpentine, 20drops Oil of Cedar Leaves and enough Oilof Soluble Red to get the desired color. This was applied to the stock with a small wad of cloth and it would soon penetrate and sink into the wood and then be left to dry for 24hrs or more.

For hard close grained walnut:mix 1/2 pint of raw linseed oil, 3 oz Spar Varnish, 1 oz turpentine, 10 drops Venice Turpentine, and 1 grain Oil of Soluble Red. Apply this mixture and again allowto dry for several days.

(Soluble Red Oil is described as a dark reddish powder sold by some large drug stores or chemical supply houses. Only a very small amount is needed and he states a lump about the size of a match head will color a half pint of oil to a bright red. Some makers used AlkanetRoot instead. Venice Turpentine was a very thick substance, hard to pour, and used by old time violin makers.)

3. Apply a light coat of raw linseed oil with a rag or swab (some of the Red Oil can be mixed in if desired) let stand for an hour or so, rub briskly with the palm of your hand for about 10 min. Apply another thin coat of oil, but not enough to run or drip. Repeat this every 12-24 hours (when stock has absorbed oil and appear sdull) for 4-5 treatments. Allow stock to stand for another couple of days. Apply another coat of oil then "Set it out of sight and forget about it".

4. After several days this coat will have hardened and gummed over the surface and appear about like a coat of varnish. Next coat the stock with hard auto cup grease, sprinkle with powdered pumice and take a wad of rags and scour off this coat down to the wood. Then rub finish with bare hand and let dry for a few more days and gun is ready for use.

After this occasionally go over the stock with cup grease by hand and rub until dry. After the gun is used in hunting rub it over with raw linseed oil then wipe dry.

5. If a super fine smooth finish is desired, follow the pumice rubbing with fine powdered Rottenstone. Use this on a hard piece of felt held in the hand and rubbed across the grain. Hunter Arms Co. used "Rose Oil" finish; a formula which included Spar Varnish, Japan Drier, boiled linseed oil, and other secret ingredients. No record of the exact components exists, nor do we know if the procedure changed over time.

We do, however, have the formula for English Slacum Oil and Purdey’s Oil:

Slacum Oil

Boiled linseed oil – 16 oz
Spirits of turpentine – 2 oz
Carnauba wax – 200 gram
Venice turpentine or Terebene drier - 2teaspoons (Terebene drier is prepared from oil of turpentine and can be added to alkyd-based paints to speed drying.)

[seppos]

Some ComBlock Mosins where dumped to heated up vaseline so that the stuff where everywhere. That is a big no no as the petroleum products tend to soften the wood.
Also it is very hard to repair such a wood as no glue will hold the splitted parts of the stock.

S