paper patching questions

[tom barthel]

I've been reading more and more about this subject. I'm considering trying it. I have two LEE molds. One a C309-170F. The other a C309-200R. Can I just wrap the bullet bore riding area in wet paper and use my LEE push through sizer? Will the absence if a gas check be a problem? After drying, if the paper stays on I plan on rolling the bullet and paper wrap in LLA. I'll run it through the sizer again after that. Will the work be worth the effort?
Thanks.
Tom

[beemer]

I'm a little new to this too but have been having a lot of fun with it. You didn't mention what caliber you intend to use. I have used with and without gas checks, without seems to work just as well. Try to patch the boolit from the base to just in front of the grooves. I have sized some patched boolits that were checked and the check cut the paper.The patched boolit can be sized but roll in LLA before sizing. I use a lee 180 for the 303 sized to .3085 patched to .314 and lubed with LLA in a #4 and a 91/30. It is a combination of boolit size paper thickness to match barrel groove size.

beemer

[docone31]

I think I see what you are trying to do.
First off, what caliber are you wrapping for? What does it slug?
I paper patch for my .303 British. I use the Lee 303B mold which casts at .3125 @ 185gns. I use wheel weight water dropped.
I wrapped my first patched ones with a gas check. They worked although some cut through the patch. I size to .308 to get .3135 wrapped. I have not sized the .303 paper patched. I consider the final size adequate.
Now, that is the .303.
For my .30cals., I plan on sizing to .308, wrapping, and final sizing to .311.
In all my patches, I wrap to the ogive. I like to have the rifling cut the patch leaving no residue. I try to get the rifling to engage slightly behind the top of the wrap, and as the casting travels through the rifling, the full diameter of rifling then cuts the top of the patch.
As I said, I have not wrapped for the .30 cals yet. I prefer to keep the patch pretty much lube free. I want the patch to also polish the bore.
I have now wrapped to .3135 with gas checks. I am now wrapping to .3135 without gas checks. I have read, and believe, the paper will act as a gas check. This I will see.
I use the Lee Push Through Sizer at .308. Reducing the gas check that far from .3125 sometimes leaves a thin blade of copper below the gas check. I have to present sheared the blade with my thumbnail. It comes off pretty easily.
I also wrap as a standard wrap. My strip is 1", and I cut it at 2.3/8" with 30* angles on both ends. About 1/2 of the patch wraps the boolitt, 1/2 is left to twist. I use a cigarette roller, which works real well for me. I twist the tail, not too tight, just firmly. I have an old 9mm. cartridge box with a plastic insert. I set the wrapped boolitts nose down in empty 9mm shells.
The next day, they are hard as a rock.
One gentleman on this forum, sizes his boolitts at .308, uses Meade Tracing Paper and wraps. This he sizes to .311 and fires in his .30 cal. Once I have ironed the bugs out of my wrapping for the .303, I plan on trying this in my 03-A3. Two land, solid, and likes lead castings.
Is it worth it?
I believe so. My barrel comes home clean from shooting paper. My groups so far have been at least equal to factory loads. Even with a bolt gun, I am a single shotter. I do not use the magazine, at least only to rest the round prior to chambering.
I would wrap the heavier boolitt first. I prefer the .312 as when I size it, the sizer just misses the ogive. Almost like a traditional paper wrap casting, or swageing.
I asked a lot of questions on this on this forum. There are a lot of answers in those threads.
Hope this helps.

[Buckshot]

................Hi Tom, I see by your Lee C309-170F and C309-200R you'll be patching up 30 cal slugs. What do you plan on shooting them in? And why?

"Will the work be worth the effort?"

It depends on what you're trying to accomplish. My paper patching has pretty much been confined to 45 cal. It seems with, or without the GC it makes no difference. However the bigger slugs seem to be easier to deal with on most ANY level.

My one patching adventure with a smaller boolit was to try out a $39 M91/30 MN, and this was many years ago. I wasn't having much luck with it and just decided 'What the heck'. I PP'd the Lyman 311284 (with a GC). After 45 cal boolits the 30 cal was tiny :-). After the patch was dry I rubbed some LLA on with my fingers. When they'd set overnight, I ran them up through a Lee .314" die.

The group printed at 50 yards was outstanding, to say the least. It was MILES better then anything before. In fact it was one of the best lead groups I'd ever fired to that time with an 'as issued' military rifle. The problem was I had lots of other milsurps that shot very well without the hassle of PPing. I decided if this rifle had to have paper patched boolits to do well, then for a simple plinking rifle I wasn't going to expend the time and effort.

.................Buckshot

[pdawg_shooter]

Paper will give you all the advantages of jacketed without the cost. Cast 14 to 14.5 BHN, size to bore dia. +.001 and patch back up. I use 16# green stripe computer paper. Full power loads shoot with jacketed, no leading and performance on game is near perfect. I patch for 30, 303, 358, 375, & 458. Been patching since th 70s. No reason to ever settle for low velocity or so-so accuracy of a bare bullet. I even patch jacketed to get odd sized bullets. Its not easy to buy premium bullets in .318 but a .308 with 2 wraps of 16# paper, a light smear of lube and you are set to go.

[tom barthel]

Why I want to try paper patching. Just to try it. I'll be attempting to use this procedure with my .30-30 improved and, my .308s. I believe we will see more and more restrictions on our freedoms. I would not be surprised to see severe restrictions on ammunition and or components. I just want to have more options. Two of my rifles slugs at just under .308. One slugs at .308. What I'm thinking about doing is wrap the bore riding part with wet paper, let dry, roll in LLA and resize in a LEE .309 push through sizer. I'm going to try it as soon as I shoot some ammo to get empties for reloading. I'll start wrapping the bullets today, 06/22/08. I'm just looking for reasonable accuracy. I'm just not steady enough for match shooting.
Thanks for the responses.
Tom

[Jon K]

Tom,

How about Paper Paching a 270 Boolit. As cast will be around .278-.279, the wrap up to your .308, 2 wraps of 9# paper.

Just a thought.

Jon

[tom barthel]

Jon K the only molds I have under .309 is .225. I don't know if this will work or not. I just gotta try.
Tom

[Jon K]

Tom,

Sorry, I wasn't thinking right, couldn't do the math right, when I made that suggestion. Must have been a left brain/ right brain thing. .277- .308=.031

Jon

[303carbine]

A fellow cast shooter and myself have had very good results with patching 45-70 bullets with teflon tape.
The 420 gc bullets get two wraps in the same direction of the twist of the rifling. The cast bullets were not lubed as it is not needed when the teflon tape is used,it makes the barrel very shiny and we have never had to clean any lead or teflon out of the barrel. It's fast and there is no drying time,the cast bullets can be loaded right away which will save time if you want to go hunting or get to the range.:Fire:
We fired a 500 grain 45-70 teflon wrapped bullet into the dirt from about 18 inches away, the bullet was dug out and the teflon made it all the way into the dirt with the bullet. It works and if anyone wants to see targets shot out of my Marlin GS, email me at deerslayer@shaw.ca
Anyone who can post pics,feel free to do so, John :drinks:

[bcp477]

I am intrigued by your teflon-taped bullet idea. Sounds like an interesting thing to try. I have some of the (teflon) plumbing tape...and bullets....so, I will give it a go, just for giggles. I doubt that I will replace PPing with the teflon tape, but I always like to try new ideas.

[303carbine]

I am intrigued by your teflon-taped bullet idea. Sounds like an interesting thing to try. I have some of the (teflon) plumbing tape...and bullets....so, I will give it a go, just for giggles. I doubt that I will replace PPing with the teflon tape, but I always like to try new ideas.

Although I have never paper patched, I like the traditional approach such as you are doing with paper.
I tried the teflon first and found it to be very easy and it works very well. Can you tell me your methods and what kind of paper and thickness you use for traditional paper patching?
Thanks, John

[randyrat]

Don't over look one point with PP bullets. You can use softer alloys of lead at higher than usual velocity for a soft lead. I've never PP a bullet in my life but i can read. I finally broke down and bought a Lyman Cast bullet book 3rd addition. it does have some good info in there about PP. It has some good history,loads,other info in it. Good reference material. This could be of use as harder alloys and gas checks become more and more expensive. In that book they reference paper patching with 30 cal bullets and dimensions of the paper.

[mommicked]

Tom,

I'm not going to claim this is safe, I don't like the bullet diameter, but I have done this and so far so good. I"ve fired about a dozen or so at 25 yards for starters, and am about to load up a bunch more.

Lee 170 gr .308 boolits, fairly soft (wheel weights to Lyman #2?)
Double wrapped patch of damp tracing paper, twist tail, allow to dry
Lightly lube with Axle grease, trim tail with electrician's pliers
Size to .311 (you might get away with .309 too), Lee sizing die. You will lose some jackets. (If you loose a jacket, clean inside of die with pull through bore cleaner/rope thingy before proceeding).

I load these in my Marlin 336 .30-30. I am setting the jackets back so that they don't protrude out of the case mouth. This IS a bit overbore, so use at your own risk. I've only fired a few of these so far, but I hope to have them down pat and hunt with them this fall. I'm using IMR-3031 and CCI 200LR primers.

Is this worth the effort? I don't know, but I'm hoping to get deer ammo for my .30-30 for next to nothing, if I discount my hobby time. I may break down and order a custom sizing die from Lee that allows me to size the unpatched slug down more for a thinner patched out bullet.

I've been trying to figure a way to do this simply and cheaply so I can get more folks interested in pp'ing, and so everyday deer hunters could (if they so decide) make their own hunting bullets fairly simply.

Shoot straight,
Mommicked

[mommicked]

Also,

You won't need a gas check. That's the point of patching! And I've been using the expander ball from my 7.62x39 sizing die (any .311 expander will do) to expand the case neck to allow the bullet to enter.

[DLCTEX]

To me, using a gas check with PP is counterintuitive. If the PP works, the gas check is not needed. I intend to try PP with my new 30-30 marlin when it arrives. DALE