"Worn out" .22 rifle

[fatelk]

I was talking to a friend recently. He was telling me about an old .22lr Marlin 60 that his dad had given him. He was real proud of the accuracy back when he was a teenager; he could out-shoot any of his brothers or cousins with it.

He was lamenting that it wore out years ago. He had shot many, many thousands of rounds through it; brick upon brick back when ammo was cheap. I asked him how it was worn out. He said it was no longer accurate, and had a tendency to jam. I asked how often and how well he cleaned it. He said that it had never been cleaned, even once.

That's quite a testament to the old model 60, that it will go that long without cleaning. I'm looking forward to helping him give it a thorough cleaning, action and bore, and scraping out decades worth of gunk. It will be good to see if we can bring back any of it's accuracy and reliability.

[fast ronnie]

There's an old Remington gallery .22 I know about that needs a new liner in the barrel. It, too has seen many rounds through it. That may be an option if nothing else works.

[725]

You might try cleaning it. Try one of those electrolysis jobs and plate the lead off. They are amazing.

[M-Tecs]

In 22 match rifles you start to see barrel erosion at about 20,000 rounds but accuracy generally doesn't go south until 50,000 plus rounds. Some of the junior team rifles have 250,000 rounds through them and the are still shooting well. The wear is mostly from the priming compound.

A good cleaning may be all that is needed.

[Sensai]

I gave a Remington 22 to my grandson about twenty years ago. Last year he brought it to me and said that it wasn't accurate any more, and asked if I could get a new barrel for it. He had looked down the barrel and the rifling was worn completely out. I stripped it down and plugged the muzzle with a plastic plug. I filled the barrel with Kroil and let it set for three days. Pushing a tight patch through from the breech produced some really funny looking lead spirals from the muzzle. A thorough cleaning with Hoppe's #9 and a coating of Kroil produced a "like new" looking barrel with pretty riffling and a shiny bore. There may have been a time, when ammunition manufacturers had pride in their product, that 22's didn't need regular cleaning; but I believe in cleaning them after each use. As long as you do it right, cleaning too often can't harm them, but not cleaning can!

[bob208]

most of the .22's I have worked on were badly leaded. I cleaned them with the old G.I. bore cleaner. they all shot like new after that. now some of the others suffered from over cleaning. the chambers were rubbed out of round or the muzzle was worn.

[michael.birdsley]

I can not fathom never cleaning a .22 or any gun. Now I understand it doesn't need to be done all the time but, never?


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[KMac]

My wifes Step Grandfather had a Remington Speedmaster 552 that he shot thousands of rounds through without ever cleaning it. When he died it went to my wifes uncle, who in turn gave it to my FIL. He played with it a little bit and eventually gave it to me. It had been jamming for a long time and wy wifes Step GD would use his pocket knife to dig around in the action to get the jammed shell out. When I disassembled it there were gouges in every location you could imagine.
Had to replace the trigger assembly because it was so bad that it was not repairable. I had to polish out multiple gouges and had to take a small file to the bolt because there were muliple gouges on it it. Finally got it working good and it is my personal 22 now and I wouldnt take for it.
My FIL then gave my son a Marlin model 99 that I think was made around 1967 for Christmas that he had picked up real cheap. It is a beautiful gun that looks almost unfired but he got it real cheap because it jammed constantly. He said since I had fixed the Speedmaster 552 that he was confident I could make that Marlin work too.
Got it a taken apart and the only thing wrong with it was someone had used WD40 to clean the action. Had a thick varnish in it that made it jam constantly.
Had a fun time getting all of that gunk out but once it was cleaned up she shoots perfect and is one fine .22.
.22's can be shot out but you would be surpised how many can make fine weapons after they get something they havent seen for decades, a good cleaning.

[country gent]

Cleaning the 22 rimfire will normally restore alot of the original accuracy. There are some areas to look at close when cleanig a rimfire thats never been cleaned or neglected. Clean the bore good with a brush rod and quide. Then patchs and jags. get it good and clean. Areas to look for at look at the bore good for pitting where moisture was helpd under the fouling and or corrosive priming may have been used. Pay attention to the throat and or leade for carbon build ups this hard ring will destroy accuracy quickly as it swages the bullet down small. Match shooters will use a brass 22 mag case or a brass tool turned up with a face cutter on the end to remove this carbon ring. Last if the gun isnt ejecting empties look at the chamber close and 22 shorts with corrosive primers powders may have worn a ring in the chamber and LR are being mechanically locked into this spot.

[Sur-shot]

My regiment for cleaning all used guns and "shot out" guns is to plug the chamber, after taking the action out of the stock, then fill the bore with Shooters Choice copper bore solvent. Set the gun in the corner of the work bench with a rag on the floor and leave the gun for 7 days, checking every day to make sure the level of solvent stays the same. On the 8th day, I scrub the bore with a bronze brush. That bath will remove chunks lead or copper or both and if she has rifling left, she will go back to shooting, otherwise a liner with a new chamber will do wonders, usually.
Ed

[jmorris]

My old model 60 wouldn't run through brick after brick of ammo, but it doesn't take too long to get the hunks of crud out of it to get her going again.

Might be able to go a little longer if you ran one completely absent of any lubrication though.

[JSnover]

Filthy .22s are a pet peeve of mine. I've met too many people who owned a semi-auto rimfire and said something like, "it's a good gun, just jams sometimes. I don't know what's wrong with it." Every one of those actions were filled with so much crud I was surprised they only jammed "sometimes."

[Soundguy]

What hardness are commercial 22lr projectiles being made with today? Is it possible the lead is too soft?

[LAGS]

Clean it up really good, possibly do a chamber or even a Bore casting.
Then you will know what you are working with.
Then you can decide if it will shoot like you want it to, or whether you want to go to the expense of getting the barrel liner put in.
You can pick up a Model 60 for less than what a liner job will cost.
But if it was a rare or antique model like an old Winchester, then a liner is well worth it, if it is getting into the Un Shootable Condition.
But leave the Originals the way they are , for as long as you can.

[fatelk]

I've never actually seen the rifle in question, and he's several hours away. For a common, inexpensive rifle, I'm sure he would never consider spending money on gunsmithing for it, but the next time I visit I'll be sure to help him give it a thorough cleaning.

It will most likely be several months, but when I do I'll try to remember to find this thread and let you all know how it worked.

[tdoyka]

i have a marlin 25n youth rifle that i got around 1985ish when i was 13 y.o.. i was taught if you use it, you clean it. i did that until i was 17y.o. when i "forgot" to clean it. i would wipe down the outside of my rimfire, but i wouldn't touch the inside. i don't remember how many shots it took(around 5000 or so)but when it did i had to take out the spent brass with my pocket knife(the chamber and rifling where completely dirty and filled up with gunk and spirals). i spent a few days with shooter's choice and kroil till it was completely clean. i clean it only if it when the knife and my fingers have to clear out the spent case. it took about 100-150 rounds until it would do 1/2 - 3/4" at 50 yards(7 shots). completely clean barrel it would do around 1 1/2 - 2" at 50yards(7 shots). i think it was cci mini mags(32gr truncated hp) would do 1/4" at 50 yards. i hunted with the mini mags(22lr). everything else that i shot(remmys, winny, federals,...) came in a brick(500 shots) that was cheap. i think the last time i bought a 22lr brick it was $16 or $17.

my little 25n has shot about 50,000-60,000 rounds(could be a little more) and it still does a 1/2" group at 50 yards. i don't take it out much anymore, the 20vt is alot better and about the same cost as a 22lr.

[Tackleberry41]

What hardness are commercial 22lr projectiles being made with today? Is it possible the lead is too soft?

Probably depends on who made it and the ammo. Something like the rot gut wildcat might use some questionable lead, dirtier powder/primer etc, while match grade stuff it wont be an issue.

Some 22 can take alot of abuse, some cant. Those old marlins can usually take alot of abuse and keep going. Where the ATI GSG522 I have couple hundred rounds and your gonna have to clean it or it stops working. A factory carbine 10/22 can go a long time without cleaning, go tricking it out and they get a bit more picky.

[Sensai]

What hardness are commercial 22lr projectiles being made with today? Is it possible the lead is too soft?

I'm not real sure about the lead, it's the lube/coating that I think the manufacturers have cut costs on. At one time, I remember, there were two basic types of lube on 22LR. I'm talking about hunting/plinking rounds, not target quality rounds. One was the "plated" that looked like copper coating, the other was the wax or wax-like coating. I think that the wax coating was better, but you had to keep them in the box or they would pick up lint and crud from your pocket. Some if the rounds that I have seen lately don't even look like they have any lube, and make gray marks on paper if you drag the nose across the paper. I think that they probably do the same thing in the rifle bore. Don't confuse what I'm talking about with the "dry lube" coatings on some good ammo.

[Soundguy]

I agree, I think the cheap plain lead ones are a bit soft and lube is dubious. I have old boxes of 22lr and the projectiles are much harder.

[ShooterAZ]

I inherited a "worn out" Winchester Model 62A takedown from my Grandfather in 1977. Upon first inspection of the bore, it appeared to be a smooth-bore. I did some long term "soaks" with Hoppes #9, carefully patching and brushing in between. Low and behold, some rifling began to appear. I slowly kept at it until all the fouling was removed. I truly believe that it had never been cleaned! It is a fine shooter now, and I just run a bore snake through her now when done shooting. It's one of my favorite rifles.

[Multigunner]

Worst .22 barrels I've run across were one that's the owner had cleared mud dauber nests from on several occasions by just firing a round through it leaving half a dozen rings in the bore. Another was a very old rifle with very soft steel barrel that had a jugged chamber from firing modern high speed shorts. Some of the Hamilton rifles had brass bore liners to avoid excessive rust from corrosive or BP loaded cartridges, these can also jug the chamber when using modern ammo.

One old Winchester model used a non ferrous alloy barrel that was advertised as rustless. It wasn't stainless steel but looked like it. These are also soft compared with modern steel barrels.

Over use of a cleaning rod will trash an old .22 RF barrel. I normally use a cord pull through.
When I do use a cleaning rod on my Marlin 99 M1 I insert a pistol sized bronze brush at the ejector port ease the rod down the bore and thread it on then pull the brush up the bore, followed by patches on a cord pull though.
I make the pull through using some thin nylon cord I found in a salvage store long ago. I crimped split lead shot on one end and rolled them till they could slide down the bore easily when inserted into the chamber. When the weighted end slides out the muzzle I insert fresh patches in the looped end and pull it through being careful to not touch the crown.

[dverna]

Another simple fix is to check the muzzle. If it will not shoot after a good cleaning, re-crowning may help.

It it is really rare to wear out a .22 barrel from shooting it

Don Verna

[higgins]

When I hear of someone who claims to have worn out a .22, I think of the 513T Remingtons we shot as ROTC cadets in the late sixties back when every able-bodied male freshman and sophomore (hundreds) was required to take ROTC at the college I attended. Those rifles were shot no telling how many rounds every quarter for no telling how many years. I don't know how often they got cleaned, but they were still plenty accurate using GI standard velocity .22 LR.

[Traffer]

My brother and I had a Remington 514 when we were kids. It shot well. Long story short, he gave it to me last year when I took up shooting again. It sat in his garage for 30 years and shot nothing but bird shot during that time. We both thought it was pretty much gone. Lot of patina rust on the outside and the barrel looked like there was only a faint trace of rifling left. With a "nothing to lose" attitude, I attacked the cleaning of the bore with one of those course copper plated pot scrubbers. Not the core boy that is copper but the hard steel one with just a copper wash on top. I tore off about 10 strands of that stuff, doubled it over and ran it through the eye of a patch holder. I could feel it "cut" as it went through. Ran it through about 10 to 20 times and the bore looked better but really could not tell if it was cutting the steel of the bore or taking out lead. After using it all summer and cleaning it like that about 6 to 10 times, I was amazed to see a bore LIKE FREAKING NEW. I kid you not. This thing has a bore like a new gun. I also ran the serial number and found it to be a first year of issue model from about 1945. I did not realize that the pot scrubber was steel for the first few cleanings. Thought I was using copper. But I used a magnet on it to see if the "filings" that were coming off were magnetic indicating whether it was barrel or lead I was scrubbing off, I found the scrub pad itself was magnetic. I have also found since then that the stock was causing the barrel to be fulcrumed causing it to not be too accurate. I shaved it down so It no longer does that. I just bought a new Savage Mark II and it seems at this point that the old Remington is at least as accurate as the Savage. I think I am going to slug the barrel of the Remington to see what kind of diameters I have there.

[Blackwater]

There used to be a school of thought that with a .22 RF, you should "never" clean them if you wanted them to stay accurate. Apparently, they'd never heard that old saw about "never say never?" Any mechanism, and that includes guns, needs occasional maintenance.

Also, there's often a difference in accuracy when changing back and forth between plated bullets and lubed lead ammo. It's almost always subtle, but if you shoot sharp, you'll sometimes notice this. Best to clean the barrel before changing ammo. And then, it may take a few rds. before your expected accuracy returns. I've hard all sorts of stories from competitive BR RF shooters about bore maintenance, and apparently, each gun must have its own personality and requirements. That's all I've figured out about it, if that's "figuring out" anything at all?

Guns can be as individual as people, and very few of us try "everything" on a really good bench, so most smaller differences escape us. Sure makes things more interesting than any horse race I've ever seen!

[jsn]

Blow back semi autos will get powder/dust accumulations in many places in the bolt area, including both the bolt and the breech end of the barrel.

Much like the dreaded carbon ring that sometimes plagues centerfire rifles, years of it will be difficult to remove, but it can be done.

It's also possible that the barrel has some rust depending on how and where it was stored.

[JMax]

When people tell me that the 22 rifle is not accurate or work anymore I immediately make them an offer. More times than not I walk off with a rifle that only needs TLC. Usually the original owner gets first right of refusal to buy it back, most do.

[reivertom]

With $5.00 per 50 rounds for .22s these days, I doubt if any average young shooter will ever wear out a .22 rimfire ever again!

[kungfustyle]

another Trump benefit, maybe 22lr will be great again? or at least less than $50 for a box of 500.

[tdoyka]

With $5.00 per 50 rounds for .22s these days, I doubt if any average young shooter will ever wear out a .22 rimfire ever again!

i hear that!!! its just too expensive to shoot anymore.

[tdoyka]

There used to be a school of thought that with a .22 RF, you should "never" clean them if you wanted them to stay accurate. Apparently, they'd never heard that old saw about "never say never?" Any mechanism, and that includes guns, needs occasional maintenance.

i don't clean my barrel(except when i have too, 'bout 5000rnds +/- a thousand:mrgreen:), but i do clean everything else. now my marlin 25n is a cheap gun but i luv it. my old man got it for me during christmas(1983 i believe) and it cost him around $100(may have gotten a discount) with a cheap scope. but the 25n is mine and i luv it.

i may have an oversized bore(at least i think i do) because it takes roughly 100-150 rounds to get it accurate at 50 yards. it can go from about 2" to 1/2 - 3/4" using federal ammo. or remmy's or winny's or... i don't know why or how it goes to 2" group to a 1/2" group(using the same ammo). but the 25n does get accurate after 100-150 rnds, so i don't mind.

[Traffer]

I am hoping that Trump does away with the nonsense regulations of the EPA, FCC, and all the other restrictive communist **** that the liberals have passed. I think that there is a good chance that we could be buying primed rimfire cases again under Trump. We should get a lawyer here to draw up a petition to change some of the stifling regulations so the Trump administration knows which regulations are causing the turmoil. I may start a new post about just that!

another Trump benefit, maybe 22lr will be great again? or at least less than $50 for a box of 500.

[Multigunner]

I can't remember exactly what .22 RF ammo was selling for when I was a youngster but I think it was around 35 cents for fifty shorts or 45-50 cents for LR. 35cents was harder to come by back then than $5 is today. My allowance was 25 cents a weeks. I usually blew the whole wad on a kid's 10 cent matinee movie , usually Buck Rodgers or Flash Gordon serials and the like, a 5 cent coca cola and a ten cent hamburger from the newsstand next door. I had to smuggle the burger in my pocket because they'd throw you out if they caught you eating food you didn't buy at the refreshment stand.

I learned to shoot well, taking my time, because I could not afford to miss. My rifle was a Remington 514 boy's model, the perfect gun for me. I gave it to a nephew as his first gun.

[Traffer]

I have several boxes of 22lr from the late 80's and early 90's (50 round) that have $.99 price tags on them. I don't6 remember what it was when I started shooting ...(around 1958)

I can't remember exactly what .22 RF ammo was selling for when I was a youngster but I think it was around 35 cents for fifty shorts or 45-50 cents for LR. 35cents was harder to come by back then than $5 is today. My allowance was 25 cents a weeks. I usually blew the whole wad on a kid's 10 cent matinee movie , usually Buck Rodgers or Flash Gordon serials and the like, a 5 cent coca cola and a ten cent hamburger from the newsstand next door. I had to smuggle the burger in my pocket because they'd throw you out if they caught you eating food you didn't buy at the refreshment stand.

I learned to shoot well, taking my time, because I could not afford to miss. My rifle was a Remington 514 boy's model, the perfect gun for me. I gave it to a nephew as his first gun.

[Bullwolf]

Got it a taken apart and the only thing wrong with it was someone had used WD40 to clean the action. Had a thick varnish in it that made it jam constantly.
Had a fun time getting all of that gunk out but once it was cleaned up she shoots perfect and is one fine .22.
.22's can be shot out but you would be surpised how many can make fine weapons after they get something they havent seen for decades, a good cleaning.

This quote reminded me of a 22 rifle experience.

I came by a 22 rimfire single shot rifle that had been in a house fire. The wood was still in good shape, but the whole rifle really smelled like smoke. Apparently the gun had been stored in a bedroom closet, and the house fire hadn't made it into the bedroom.

This 22 rifle surprisingly showed no water or burn damage, but it looked like someone had intentionally varnished the entire bolt. I had a heck of a time cleaning off the oil that turned to varnish from the heat of the fire. After a good deep cleaning of the whole rifle, that single shot 22LR turned out to be quite the shooter.


- Bullwolf

[1Hawkeye]

In addition to a good cleaning check the nylon bolt buffer in the back of the receiver it might need to be replaced. 60's that have had a lot of rounds through them the buffers tend to crack or even crumble and this can cause the bolt / recoil spring to bind up.

[shooterg]

Hard to wear any 22 out. The OP's Mod. 60 will probably run fine after disassembly and cleaning of the receiver parts. Worst case, the accumulated crud acts like rough sandpaper on the alloy receiver's insides. Even then, most run fine after the gunk is gone. Someone else mentioned it, but muzzle nicks do require recrowning - a brass ball and some valve compound have been used for that. And there's always the possibility that the owner's memory of past groups may be a bit off...
fwiw- I love my 10/22's but you gotta do a lot to one before it'll keep up with the much cheaper marlins !
I have about 20 old US Property trainers of different makes that still group better than most can hold - and I'm sure they've had 10's of thousands run through 'em before I got 'em and many since.
I've bought a few of those "worn out" ones from friends and ended up selling some back to the original owner - for $1 more than I paid ! Gotta make a buck...

[Multigunner]

To dress a dented crown I first use a small grinding ball from a Demel set turned slowly with a hand cranked drill, then use the ball shaped tip of my glass cutter handle with a patch of 1000 grit silicon carbide paper pulled down tight and turn this by hand with light pressure. No need to remove more than required to see the ends of the lands clearly. It seems to work better than the more commonly recommended methods.
With other methods if the crown isn't perpendicular to begin with it will stay that way.
Takes a good eye and steady hand to do it right regardless.

[zubrato]

something i've always wondered, will aguila colibris wear out a barrel faster than other 22's?
the barrel is always filthy with priming compound which doesnt really get blown out of the barrel, maybe all that extra abrasive priming compound has an effect?

havent seen any negative effect on accuracy, but i've never really benched that mossberg 46M(b) with a scope.

[mac1911]

Growing up out plinker 22s didn't get a "cleaning" until the end if the season dead of winter with stormy weather lasting for days..
Was not until heard of to put 2k rounds weekend down one of the several 22s we owned.
My 1942 513t I bought from a man who shot it from 1967-1976 has a log of the 100,000 plus rounds he put through it.
The bore is ugly but I can on a good day with mid range ammo... sk standard plus, wolf match extra can still shoot sub 2" groups at 100 yards with target sights.
I have bought many shot out *** 22s over the years and 98% of them where just excessively dirty or reassembled wrong.
22s don't need cleaning often or a lot of lube.
Basically all you need is just enough to prevent rust. Over lube just gives more 22 dust to stick to.

[popper]

Older m60s have a tight chamber that doesn't like newer ammo.

[Multigunner]

"22s don't need cleaning often or a lot of lube.
Basically all you need is just enough to prevent rust. Over lube just gives more 22 dust to stick to. "

An article on forensics I read many years ago spoke of difficulty in matching bullets fired from a known murder weapon in .22 LR.
They found that the cartridges used in the killing were from a batch with bullets that had been over lubed at the factory, the bullets skidded in the bore causing the rifling impressions in the bullets to be much broader than those of the rounds fired for comparison. Too much oil or grease in the bore probably has the same effect on soft lead bullets, and with small diameter bullets it might effect accuracy.

A friend has an old .22 autoloader that has a series of slots cut in the side of the receiver to allow excessive gas escaping the breech to blow clear of the action. I guess this improves functioning after firing many rounds without detail cleaning. Residue that would otherwise settle out on the internals is vented out the side.
That rifle also has an odd feature. The bolt stays open after firing a shot until you release the trigger, it then cycles the next round. I think its an old Savage or Stevens model.

[Eddie Southgate]

I used to keep a pint whiskey bottle full of mercury to clean .22 barrels . Plug the chamber and fill her up and let it sit a few days then pour the mercury and lead out . I've seen barrels that looked like they were smooth bore end up looking like a new barrel .

Eddie