Hunting with PP bullets

[kbstenberg]

I know the BP guy's use soft (plumbers) lead. But at very low velocities.
Has anyone had success with PP in hunting situations. I am concerned with proper bullet expansion and penetration.

[Nobade]

Stick-on wheelweights cast up into 115gr. hollow point bullets do amazing things to prairie dogs when launched at 3000 fps out of a 30-06. No problem with expansion there! However, for a more realistic response, slightly harder than pure will work well for big game at most any realistic velocity. Of course test your loads for accuracy and terminal effect before using them for hunting to get a feel for what will happen.

-Nobade

[Digital Dan]

You might be laboring under some misunderstandings. PP allows higher velocity for a given alloy. Dead soft lead works well to velocities approaching 2000 fps. The bullets expand a lot but hold together mostly, stuff dies pretty quick. This is fact, not theory.

What are you shooting?

[Hardcast416taylor]

I soften a pot of WW`s in my RCBS pot with a pound of pure soft lead to make my version in reverse of 20 - 1 alloy. I patch .30 cal. as well as Mosin, 7.7`s (303), 8mm, 338, 375, 416 all with my screwy alloy and they shoot quite nicely when patched and sized.Robert

[Digital Dan]

Set up for a .44 Mag:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/photo%202%202_zps2588rqcx.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/photo%202%202_zps2588rqcx.jpg.html)

The impact velocity was approximately 1500 fps, broke both forelegs and 5 ribs of the deer, recovered under the hide and weighed around 297 grains. Started life at 300 grains. Pure lead:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/PaperPatchDeer009_zps3a52d58c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/PaperPatchDeer009_zps3a52d58c.jpg.html)

[kbstenberg]

In my 30 cal. I have molds from 165gr to 210gr. I wish I had a NOE repo of the NRA mold but I don't
And in the 35 cal. I only have the Lee copy of the RCBS 35/200.

[Digital Dan]

What cartridges???

[longbow]

What mould are those .44's from Dan? And what diameter are they?

I made a very similar design in a pushout mould several years ago but found that the 300 gr. would not stabilize in my 1894 Marlin so went to 265 gr. with good success. Subsequently I went back to GG boolits because I am too lazy to paper patch for plinking boolits and leading isn't an issue, and expansion isn't important. The PP boolits did work well though.

My mould cast at 0.421" and I patched up to 0.433". Bore diameter of the Marlin is 0.425" and groove is 0.4315". That boolit is undersize for the bore but worked for me. This is possibly due to the microgroove rifling.

When you say dead soft I'm assuming pure lead?

I have not patched soft alloys for my .30 caliber guns, just ACWW. I should try some soft alloys.

Longbow

[Digital Dan]

Swagged, not a mould. Source was Montana Precision Swagging quite a few years ago. .422" diameter, pure lead, 300 grains. Patched to .430 w/9# onionskin, beeswax/vaseline wipe on the shank for lube. 77/44 sufficiently twisted to shoot those quite well. Just had a mould made by Steve Brooks, same specs except 320 grains using 30:1. They also shoot quite nicely, as good or better that the other.

The "other" does OK. Note the dates. Most recent was the date fired, earlier date was when they were loaded.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/627b4656-cd5c-45f5-a12c-e336e1f16dcd_zpsi3ucunrq.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/627b4656-cd5c-45f5-a12c-e336e1f16dcd_zpsi3ucunrq.jpg.html)

[longbow]

Okay then so a thou bigger than mine. In my limited experience the lead boolit should be bore diameter up to a couple thou over which is the general advice given as well. In my .303's I tried a 0.301" boolit with poor results but after knurling the boolits up to bore diameter+ at 0.303"/0.304" they worked fine.

The Marlin did well with boolits 0.004" under bore diameter. I used ACWW though so maybe soft lead would give a bit more at engraving.

With deeper rifling bore diameter would be smaller so maybe that's why 0.422". Do you know your bore diameter?

Thanks,
Longbow

[Digital Dan]

Longbow, the .44 is .430" in the groove and .422" bore. I patch it with 2 wraps of 9# onionskin and wipe 50/50 beeswax on the shank for lube. My load is max or close to it w/ Lil Gun and LPP. It is consistently in the 3/4-1.25" group size at 100 yds. Bullet is pure lead.

Only other experience with smokeless patching was a .45-70 Marlin 1895 CB. Bore/groove @ .450/.458". 3 wraps of dress pattern paper (.0015") took the bullet up to .459" and that was its best geometry. With a scope it was a consistent sub MOA rifle. 20:1 alloy, 510 gr with a healthy dose of RX7 nudged 1800 fps. The onionskin worked well, but grouped maybe 25% larger groups.

Might have been been the patch technique that caused that. The .44 uses a FB bullet with about 1/8" overhang tucked under and it loaded with a card wad. The .45-70 uses a cup base bullet and gets a twisted tail. Onionskin with rag content is a wee bit stiffer than pattern paper when wet.

[Alan in GA]

[3 bullets on left] --- 45/70 Handi Rifle. Commercial Speer swaged 45 Colt 250 gr. bullet patched up to about (?) 0.460". Angling away shot into right rear of rib cage, traveled across chest through lungs and chest cavity, exited front left chest, entered left front leg where we found it when cutting up to quarters for ice chest. 9# onion paper.
This bullet is my favorite 'ready to patch and use' for any .458" bore rifles, 45/70, 458 American, .458 Win Mag.
I would like to find a good PP bullet for the 44 mags I have.


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