Need a 30-06 cast bullet load

[rayg]

I have some I-4227 powder and also some Unique powder that I'd like to use up. Does anyone know some loads I can use with these powders using a gas check 311 dia, 175 gr, bullet in a 1903A3 rifle. Ray

[sundog]

Ray, my 'goto' load. Any 180ish to 200ish grain boolit and 21.0/4227. I have an 03A3 that will shoot 98s on demand on the SR21 at a hunert yards with 314299 and #301.

[seabreeze133]

Might also try 26 gr, or thereabouts, of RL7.

[RU shooter]

For the Unique load the standard 10 gr. loading always has worked well for me ,I get about the same accuracy with or without the gas check installed so i mostly go checkless.BTW Sundogs load with the 4227 is a winner for sure!

[mj2evans]

10g Unique has worked ok for me and 185g. More powder did not help group size.

[rayg]

Thank you gentlemen for the load info. I have some I-4198 and I-4598 powders also. What would be good loads for these powders. I'm using an old 311413 GC mold that I had. I thought I would load up a few rounds, (maybe 10 of each), using the Unique, I-4227, and the other two powders just to see which ones would seem to have some accuracy or promise in my rifle. I understand ten shots of each won't tell it all but would at least disqualify one having a lot of flyers etc. I'm only looking for 100-200yrd loads, Ray

[beemer]

I was working with my sporterized 03-A3 but got sidetracked. IMR 4198 at about 20- 22 grs is a good place to start. I usually have good results with that load in most full size milsurps.
I usually ad a small pinch of dacron, about a half of a grain, to hold the powder against the primer.

beemer

[rayg]

Correction, that's 4895 not 4598, sorry, Ray

[Larry Gibson]

Correction, that's 4895 not 4598, sorry, Ray

Try between 28-32 gr 4895 with a 1/2 gr dacron filler.

Larry Gibson

[rayg]

:( Thanks gentlemen. I've been getting some feed back on another forum on the problems associated with the 311413 bullet. Seems as though it is not very stable because of the tip shape and it has been recommended that with my two groove 03A3 bbl, I will have to keep the velocity under 1400 fps otherwise the bullet will yaw. So I probably will have to load Unique about 10-12 grs and I-4227 at about 14 grs. Real light loads. Not what I wanted. I will give that a try and if it don't work out well I suppose I will have to look for another mold, perferable a cheap used one, Ray.

[afish4570]

Try it at low speeds and see what you can do. Clean barrel scrupulously. For higher velocity you might try a double cav. Lee Mould. I bought mine at FM Reloading several yrs. ago and use it in my 303, 312185. They list several 30 cal. moulds too, the flat pt. models can be used for hunting more successfully than the round nose models and can be used in your 3030's or most other 30 cal milsups too. Have fun and shoot alot. Shooting a 130 rd. IPSC match tommorrowafish4570:roll::roll:

[garandsrus]

Rayg,

I have had good luck with the 311413 and an 03A3. My load was 16.0gr 2400, no filler, ACWW sized .310.

The group I submitted to a postal match was about .5" at 50 yds for a 5 shot group, shot from the bench.

John

[shotman]

ray i am useing the 413 in same rifle i run 17gr of unqiue i use lee tumble lube with some moly added off a lead sled at 50yds and open sights in an inch it a 100 opens up to 2 or 3 but that may bee shooter not rifle all holes are round--- have you dug up one of the boolets from that 2 groove look funny after seeing all the rest shotman/rick

[rayg]

Thanks for your posts John & Ric it gives me a little more confidence in the bullet. I don't have 2400 powder but I can try about 17-18 grs of I-4227 which I have as I think that would be a close match to the 16 grs of 2400. Also I will up the Unique loads I was planning on using.

Ric, I haven't shot the bullet in the 03A3 yet as I was using it in the 7.7 Jap with poor results thats why I'm switching to the 30-06 cal. I wasn't sure if it was the poor design of the bullet or it was not big enough dia wise for the 7.7. I slugged the bore on the 7.7 and it was about 311 But accuracy was bad with too many flyers right and left at 100yrds. The bullet may not have expanded enough being that close to the bore size. I may go back again and try it in the 7.7 but will use it straight out of the mold and not size it to see if that helps, Ray

[Newtire]

I have had good luck with 13 grains Unique with that weight boolit (175 gr.) and dropped down to 12 gr. for the 150 grainers.

I also would go with the RX-7 load in the 25-30 grain loading with the 175 weight.

I have used checks with the gascheck design boolits, others have not.

[shotman]

ray that could be the problem on the 7.7 ..My mold cast about 311 but i run through a Lee 309 and seat to half of first drive band with a med crimp. 17gr of unique is about a mod to heavy load do have some recoil from shoulder fire. But it dont drop much from 50 to 100 yards. That also does good in a garand ,it will eject with no problem rick

[MtGun44]

+1 for 10 gr Unique with the 413 boolit. I have shot 5/8" groups at
50 yds with a K31. Not yet tried in an 03 or 03A3 but they are
on the 'to do' list.

Bill

[MtGun44]

+1 for 10 gr Unique with the 413 boolit. I have shot 5/8" groups at
50 yds with one of my K31s, of course this it 7.5x55 but with
10 gr of Unique, it doesn't make any difference what the cartridge
is - really. Any 20th century milsurp bottleneck seems to work
between good and great with 10 of Unique and mostly any decent
quality cast boolit. Strange but true.

Not yet tried in an 03 or 03A3 but they are on the 'to do' list.

Bill

[rayg]

Range update!

Shot three groups of ten loads each with the 413 bullet at 50yrs just to see if any flyers would accur.

1st group w/ 11 grs Unique with water dropped bullets.
2nd group w/ 11 grs Unique with softer not water dropped bullets.
3rd group w/18 grs I-2742 with water dropped bullets.

Results
1st group had two flyers, right and left of otherwise a half way decent grouping. Bullet was too hard I think for such a mild load giving inconsistant pattern.

2nd group, no flyers with the softer bullets, grouping fairly decent.

3rd group the best, no flyers and all centered but in straight line from center of bull straight down about three inches. Almost a straight line. I think this is the result of me not being able to focus the tip of the front sight on the target the same each time because it it appears blurred with my old eyes. causing high and low patterns but all at a 6 Oclock pattern. I don't have trouble keeping the sight post centered just up and down.

I understand that only ten rds does not provide an accurate test but at least provides me with a start. I will load up some more and try at 100yrds, Ray

[rayg]

Ric, I haven't shot the bullet in the 03A3 yet as I was using it in the 7.7 Jap with poor results thats why I'm switching to the 30-06 cal. I wasn't sure if it was the poor design of the bullet or it was not big enough dia wise for the 7.7. I slugged the bore on the 7.7 and it was about 311 But accuracy was bad with too many flyers right and left at 100yrds. The bullet may not have expanded enough being that close to the bore size. I may go back again and try it in the 7.7 but will use it straight out of the mold and not size it to see if that helps, Ray

Well now I was curious so I loaded up 10 rds for the 7.7. Jap using the 413 bullet but only sized it half way to up the top land just to seat/crimp the Cast check and so it would enter the cartridge neck and leaving the top half of the bullet the size it came out of the mold which was .315. I used 18 grs of I-2742 and it gave real promising and consistant results at the 50 yrds with no flyers. Ray

[rayg]

Success with the 30-06 with the 311413 and 18 grs of I-2742 powder!!!!

Because my old eyes had trouble with getting the front sight in sharp focus on the 1903A3 rifle, I took out my 1903A4 with the m73b1 scope. The scope made all the diference as this is the 5 shot group fired after I finaly adjusted the rifle from the jacketed bullet sightings to the cast one. Oh Happy days. This was shot sitting at the bench with just the forarm of the rifle resting on a binocular case for support, Ray

http://i34.tinypic.com/10o1sva.jpg

[oldhickory]

Years ago I happened into a Lyman mould #311332, I think it's been dropped from their line now, but it casts a nice spitzer gascheck boolit weighing 186gr from wheelweights. The cases are Remington with Remington9 1/2 std. primers. 23gr. of IMR4227, seated to just kiss the rifling, and not crimped. This load will print an honest 1.5" @ 100yds. from my Shilen barreled Mauser.

[stillhunter]

Try 17 grains of 4227 behind lyman 311467 sized .309. It gives 3 shot clusters at 100 yds in my two groove. I've got 18 loadings on the brass. No stress at this volocity. Enjoy your gun..!!

[rayg]

One thing, the light load of 18 grs of 4227 sure drops the bullet a lot. I had to raise the sight on the 03A3 to the seven hundred yrd sighting because the bullet dropped so much at 50yrs. I'm sure I could raise the impact up more if I increased the powder charge but I'm getting such good groups finally with the light charge that I hate to change the load. However I may have to increase the charge if I start shooting the 100 and 200 yr range though, Ray.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I have gotten very small groups-less than an inch at 100 yards with my A3, using 14 grains of IMR 4227 behind (long discontinued) Lyman #311334, weighing 190 grains, cast out of WW,sized .309 and lubed with NRA 50/50 Alox. Got this loading from NRA article by Col. Harrison and have never moved it up or down. Rear sight has to be set up to 800 yards. Part of the good performance is due to the shape of the bullet which is totally correct for 2 groove rifling, i.e. a relatively short body and a long nose that rides on, and is guided by the top of the lands. The nose itself has been miked at .301. A very similar bullet-#311332 is still in production, but Lyman is cutting them, and allowing them to go thru quality control with noses less than . 300, .....more on the order of .297-.298. The result of this is that the nose section is not supported and guided by the lands; it is easily knocked off its axis in the barrel and exits the bore in a "slumped" condition and yaws badly going downrange. The condition of the bullet can be improved by carefully lapping the nose section only or perhaps "beagling" the blocks. This second option, if it is considered would also increase the diameter of the bullet body and increase the amount needed to be sized....not necessarily significant if the 03-A3 bore is a bit worn. A third option would be to "bump" the noses of the 332's which would effectively cause the frontal segment of the bullet to increase. A gentleman by the name of R.Sears wote an article for the CBA/NRA outlining this method and indicated that the noses of the castings could be first tested for correct fit by inserting them nose-first into the muzzle-i.e. if they dropped in up to the first band, then they needed to be bumped up. In sum, with correct bullet design and sufficient hardness withstanding, IMR 4227 in properly adjusted charges can be used very successfully in the 1903, 03-A3 or the 1917. Good shooting. LLS

[shotman]

that 413 is the best i have found in a 03 or Garand need to load a little hot for the Garand to cycle but still shoot good I size to 308 but all my rifle have VG bores The mold I have cast at 311-310 depends on alloy. I tumble lube with moly added to the Lee TL have NO leading even in the hotter Garand loads rick

[mike in co]

before i "learned" so much about what works and what "dosn't" work in cast boolit design...i went to the cast boolit shooting gathering in winny muckka with the lowly 413 boolit behind some varget in a 308 rifle. seems some guy named 45 nut shot small group with that boolit that is unstable and must be shot slow( my gun, my ammo...)


mike in co.

[tejano]

Would someone please tell me who makes I-2742? I probably have 30 powders on my shelf, but never heard of that one.:veryconfu

[rayg]

It's supposed to be I-4227, twisted numbers, twisted mind, LOL , Ray

[tejano]

well, at least no one could screw with a powder that doesn't exist. :mrgreen: