Carcano makes meat

[c1skout]

I've been occasionally toting my M38 short rifle when deer hunting for the last 20 years or so. It's not my primary deer rifle, I just like to take different guns for a walk at least one time each season. I use the .268 Hornady bullet and the Hornady book starting load of W760 powder in Prvi brass. This is an easy shooting and accurate load in my gun, but I did build a taller front sight blade to zero it at 100yds.

Saturday I went out behind the house to one of my stands. My brother and nephew parked a mile or so away and walked through the woods towards me. They saw some turkeys and put a few grouse up but only saw one deer that just flashed through the woods. They made it to my stand and I got down to walk out with them and drive them back to their Jeep. We split up for the walk back out of the woods to my house.

As we got to the foot of the last hill we needed to climb, a single deer came running down from the top angling in front of me. I took a knee and when I had a quick shot through a grape tangle I squeezed one off. The deer piled up right there, not able to take another step! I thanked the lord for the blessing, and started into the work of gutting and dragging.

After dropping off off my brother and nephew I had lunch, then we met back up and I spent the rest of the day pushing for them. We didn't get any more deer, but we still had a good time. At least we all have tags left for flintlock season!

[richhodg66]

I've heard from several people that Carcanos are better rifles than they are generally regarded as. Someone on here made a real slick manliccher sporter out of one in .35 Remington if I recall.

Congrats on the deer and especially for using something unusual.

[map55b]

Nice! Below is a Carcano I built in 7.62x39. Check out this link for an article (http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/emary.html) written by Horady's Chief ballistics scientist on the Carcano.
182701
From the above mentioned article:
"The materials used in the Carcano are excellent. These rifles were made from special steels perfected by the Czechs, for which the Italians paid royalties. If you have ever tried doing any work on a Carcano receiver you will find out just how hard and tough the steel is. The Carcano has also received a reputation as being a “weak” design. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Italians made a small run of Carcanos early in WW II chambered for 8 X 57 JS. The Germans rechambered some Carcanos to 8 X 57 JS late in WW II. These rifles were also proofed for this cartridge. The CIP minimum suggested proof pressure for the 8 x 57 JS cartridge is 73,500 psi. I hardly call this a weak action.

The best case I can make for the strength of the Carcano was a personal experience attempting to blow one up for a hunter safety course video. I was asked by the Department of Game and Fish of New Mexico about 12 years ago to help them with this. At the time I was one of the ones ignorant about the Carcano, believing it to be a weak action and easy to take apart. Well, the morale to this story was a full case of Bullseye failed to do anything significant to the action or barrel. We finally had to fill a cartridge case with C4 explosive and detonate it to get anything that looked like what we wanted. One other incident I have experienced with the Carcano further convinces me of the great strength of these actions. In my early experiments with .268” bullets, and loading data for them, I had several incidents of extreme pressure. The bolt had to be opened with a hammer and the cartridge case appeared to be a belted magnum. The headspace of the gun had grown slightly but otherwise was fine and has been fired many times since. I know from my experience as a ballistician that pressures in excess of 90,000 psi are required to do this type of damage to a cartridge case. A good condition Carcano rifle is as safe and strong as any other military bolt-action rifle you will encounter."

[bouncer50]

The only thing cheap about them is the price. Back in the 60"s you could buy one for 10-15 dollars. People thought cheap price means cheap made = almost junk.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

This sure brings back memories. My first deer rifle was a SMLE .303, but lots of the other boys I knew bought the Carcano and got their deer with them. Like they say, "The price was right!" They're really not a bad rifle at all--if you've got the clips! A piece of tape across the hole in the bottom of the magazine keeps them from getting lost in the brush after the last shot. I believe it was around 1958 or 9 that I visited a surplus store on Market St. in San Francisco and right inside the door were two huge wooden hogshead barrels stuffed full of Carcanos, "Your Choice -- $13.50." What? Guns in San Francisco? Not anymore, that's for sure. I remember a long running ad in the outdoor magazines that sold them complete with a cheapie scope for a low price--think that was where Oswald got his. Good gun, glad to see that someone is still using them.

[bouncer50]

This sure brings back memories. My first deer rifle was a SMLE .303, but lots of the other boys I knew bought the Carcano and got their deer with them. Like they say, "The price was right!" They're really not a bad rifle at all--if you've got the clips! A piece of tape across the hole in the bottom of the magazine keeps them from getting lost in the brush after the last shot. I believe it was around 1958 or 9 that I visited a surplus store on Market St. in San Francisco and right inside the door were two huge wooden hogshead barrels stuffed full of Carcanos, "Your Choice -- $13.50." What? Guns in San Francisco? Not anymore, that's for sure. I remember a long running ad in the outdoor magazines that sold them complete with a cheapie scope for a low price--think that was where Oswald got his. Good gun, glad to see that someone is still using them. Yes Oswald got his mail order from a outfit in Chicago with scope for 19.95 And a gun store was in Chicago nowaday NO. His ammo was from a small run by a american company for the CIA contract bid.? A lot of question about Oswald choice of the Carcano rifle.? And the rechamber pistol he was caught with, and 3 different brands of ammo in his gun. ?

[patrick_ford]

Awesome story, do you have any pictures of the rifle in question? While these old war horses aren't fighting many wars these days, I do like to see them put to work and still doing their job. I have an unmolested Enfield No.4 that I plan on hunting with once I work up an accurate load it likes.

[jhaston]

I have a Carcano TS carbine, fun to shoot and makes a fireball the size of a pumpkin if you shoot it at dusk!

[c1skout]

Thanks for the comments guys.
Map55b, I saw your build a while ago, maybe during construction? I followed a link from a mil-surp forum. Nice job!
My boy hunts with a P14 Enfield made by Remington in 1915. His is mostly original but was put into a P17 stock somewhere along the way. We just started working up a load for that one with a Lee boolit but weren't ready for hunting season with it, so he stuck with the Prvi ammo that he used to get his deer last year. I also built a taller front sight for his gun to match the hunting ammo to a 100yd zero.

Here's a pic of the 2 rifles together
182751

That P14 makes the Carcano look like a toy!

Jhaston I hear ya on the fireballs, we used to shoot surplus ammo from mine at night and marvel at all the fire.:-D

[Multigunner]

The only real problem the Carcano had was old poorly stored WW2 ammunition imported from Egypt where it had been left in a cave for a generation without proper care.

The propellent the Italians used was a double base powder that had aprox 60% nitroglycerin content, the same as C4 explosives had. When the nitro separated from the nitrocellulose there was no moderator and it could detonate even more violently than an equal weight of C4.

Last time I saw the above article posted on a site the poster got an earful from a Carcano owner who had lost an eye when the degraded WW2 (possibly pre WW2 era ammo) ammo destroyed his Carcano.

The Carcano is a lot better rifle than its reputation would suggest, but degraded ammo has destroyed many a rifle. That's why I no longer shoot old milsurp ammo more than 25 years old and only then if I know exactly how it was stored.
I've broken down 7.62 NATO ball of a respected manufacturer and found the powder so degraded that it ate the lower half of a steel IMR powder can into reddish brown dust. The cases had pinholes and even the gilding metal cladding peeled away from the steel jackets. That ammo was less than 20 years old at the time.

As far as I'm concerned old milsurp ammo is only a source of bullets and cases, I won't use old powder unless I can inspect it first for any sign of degradation and load the cases myself with new primers.

[nekshot]

Congrats on the harvest. Being from Pa I can "feel" your hunt with fond memories. The carcanos trigger when cleaned up will give as good of a trigger as any milsurp. And their strength is greater than any thing I shoot in them. I have a couple in various calibers and the only thing keeping me from getting more is the price they now bring.

[Earlwb]

Congratulations on the harvest.

I liked the Carcano carbines myself. I used one on the back of my pickup truck for a long time as a ranch or farm gun. I had put a scope on mine as the open sights were sighted for zero at 300 meters and it shot way way high at 100 yards.

[nekshot]

This is almost totally off the topic(maybe the naysayers won't see this) but when you fellas chamber a round, do you use the safety or lift the bolt as I do? I never chamber till I am at my stand or ready to target shoot and then I lift the bolt to the top position and all is safe(for me that is). Sorry if this offends any!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Who would be offended? If I understand correctly, you are seated on your stand and there's a round in the chamber. The safety is off, and all you have to do to shoot is to push the bolt handle down? Not the first time I've heard of that, and nothing wrong with it that I can see. If you accidentally dropped the rifle out of the tree the bolt would probably open and might even eject the round, but would be very unlikely to fire.

[c1skout]

When I'm walking to a tree stand in the dark I keep the bolt open and the chamber empty. Get to the stand and chamber a round, then work the awkward safety. When I'm in a tree I feel I should have time to fiddle with the safety without being spotted. If I'm sitting at ground level I leave the bolt up the same way you do. When I'm stalking I move with the safety engaged and disengage it if needed to fire. This cost me a shot at a coyote last year..... I fouled up and got the thumb of my thin flannel glove stuck in the safety so I had to just watch the song-dog run away! This is not a user friendly design, but is no worse than the one on my Nagant.

[Multigunner]

The French didn't even have safeties on most of their bolt action rifles, they used the same method you guys use, leaving the bolt handle up till ready to fire. They couldn't forget it since the bolt handle would block the view of the sights.

They found that when they had rifles with safeties there were dozens of negligent discharge injuries and deaths every year but when they switched to rifles with no safety accidents dropped to near zero.

[DCM]

This is almost totally off the topic(maybe the naysayers won't see this) but when you fellas chamber a round, do you use the safety or lift the bolt as I do? I never chamber till I am at my stand or ready to target shoot and then I lift the bolt to the top position and all is safe(for me that is). Sorry if this offends any!

I use the same method! The safety on these things is just way too much effort, cumbersome and much more time consuming.

[DCM]

[QUOTE=map55b;3875206]Nice! Below is a Carcano I built in 7.62x39. Check out this link for an article (http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/emary.html) written by Horady's Chief ballistics scientist on the Carcano.
182701

Nice stock! Did you make that or where were you able to get that from?

Also where were you able to find the Dave Emary wright up? the link I have is no longer good.
Thank you

[Multigunner]

For some reason many links to gun related sites have gone dead recently. I saw an alert on hackers sabotaging gun collector sites a couple of months ago.

[nekshot]

DCM, very nice gun. I read that site listed above and can say A MEN! I do hope to get 1 more nice carcano action and rebarrel it with a .264 douglas barrel I have laying here. I would the restock it in walnut with top forearm as a battle rifle like I think it should look. Time will tell if that happens. Glad to see some good love here from you fellas for the carcano instead of the normal ignorant bashing from the know it alls!

[Earlwb]

Nice! Below is a Carcano I built in 7.62x39. Check out this link for an article (http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/emary.html) written by Horady's Chief ballistics scientist on the Carcano.
182701
From the above mentioned article:
"The materials used in the Carcano are excellent. These rifles were made from special steels perfected by the Czechs, for which the Italians paid royalties. If you have ever tried doing any work on a Carcano receiver you will find out just how hard and tough the steel is. The Carcano has also received a reputation as being a “weak” design. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Italians made a small run of Carcanos early in WW II chambered for 8 X 57 JS. The Germans rechambered some Carcanos to 8 X 57 JS late in WW II. These rifles were also proofed for this cartridge. The CIP minimum suggested proof pressure for the 8 x 57 JS cartridge is 73,500 psi. I hardly call this a weak action.

The best case I can make for the strength of the Carcano was a personal experience attempting to blow one up for a hunter safety course video. I was asked by the Department of Game and Fish of New Mexico about 12 years ago to help them with this. At the time I was one of the ones ignorant about the Carcano, believing it to be a weak action and easy to take apart. Well, the morale to this story was a full case of Bullseye failed to do anything significant to the action or barrel. We finally had to fill a cartridge case with C4 explosive and detonate it to get anything that looked like what we wanted. One other incident I have experienced with the Carcano further convinces me of the great strength of these actions. In my early experiments with .268” bullets, and loading data for them, I had several incidents of extreme pressure. The bolt had to be opened with a hammer and the cartridge case appeared to be a belted magnum. The headspace of the gun had grown slightly but otherwise was fine and has been fired many times since. I know from my experience as a ballistician that pressures in excess of 90,000 psi are required to do this type of damage to a cartridge case. A good condition Carcano rifle is as safe and strong as any other military bolt-action rifle you will encounter."

I have been wanting to redo one of my Carcanos to use the 7.62x39mm cartridge too. Having one in .35 Remington would be really awesome too. Maybe I will get around to doing it one of these days. I also have some Carcanos made in 8x57mm too. I did not see them as being too weak for the round either. I have other guns to shoot, so I haven't been too motivated to trying one out yet though.

[shoot-n-lead]

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/604608812

[skeettx]

Very interesting
Carcano is not weak?
Thanks
Mike

[JeffinNZ]

Nothing wrong with Carcanos. I like mine. Yes, it is rustic in the finish but it shoots fine. With those Hornady 160gr RNSP .268 bullets and a full charge I would be happy chasing down deer sized animals.

[Brasso]

I have a Type "I" Carcano in 6.5 Japanese caliber. It has the Mauser double stacked magazine and has been "bubbaed". Great shooting rifle.

[nekshot]

Brasso, sure would be interesting to see how they did your rifle. I could not get the 7.62x39 to feed off the clips the way it should so I gutted the mag, welded the bottom shut and soldered a shoulder on each side of receiver rail to hold cartridge down and made a follower and put a spring under it. Works great for 2 cartridges and 3 in a pinch plus one in chamber. The next carcano I was smarter and gutted the mag and used a type of lip on sheet metal for cartridge to feed unto bolt. I also have a clip version using a clip from a savage 340. Sorry I can not get pics on forum but I think there are pics somewhere here on these rifles and my bubbasizing. I love these cute mini mauser type actions!!

[nekshot]

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/604608812

I sure appreciate a lot that gun but at that price somebody got dope in their pipe instead of tobaccy!!

[bouncer50]

I have a Type "I" Carcano in 6.5 Japanese caliber. It has the Mauser double stacked magazine and has been "bubbaed". Great shooting rifle. Yes they are very accurate. Mine will shoot one inch groups at 50 yards with Chinese surplus ammo i bought years ago.

[Brasso]

nekshot,
These Carcanos were made at the factories in Italy to Japanese specs in the Japanese 6.5 caliber. Standard Carcano action but with Mauser double-stack flush bottom magazine. Kind of like we did for the British P-14 Enfield. All "Bubba" did was cut the barrel back to 22", soldered new sights and put in a Fajin stock. Nice looking and great shooting rifle. Also it has a .264 bore, not .268 like the Italian cartridge.

[map55b]

DCM,

This is an off the shelf Boyd's stock. Just a little fitting for my barrel and home made sight base. You can rind the article here: http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/emary.html

[map55b]

I have a Type 1 that has been bubba'd too and the bore is nasty, so its fair game to build. I plan to move the bolt handle to the rear, make the stub from the original a "third" lug, add a side safety and adjustment screws to the trigger and re-barrel it something common on a 7x57 or smaller case. The is no practical reason for this, just going to do it for fun.

I have a Mannlicher style Carcano that I want to convert to use a single stack AK magazine, but will have the check out the Savage 340 mentioned earlier on this thread.

[Brasso]

Do we really need a practical reason for giving an old firearm new life? Its all in the fun and personal satisfaction.
s1skout, congrats on your hunt!!

[c1skout]

I'm backwards from all you guys....... I'd like to have a Savage 110 made in 6.5 Carcano, but with the .264 bore. That would make a sweet hunting rifle for deer and such!

[nekshot]

I'm backwards from all you guys....... I'd like to have a Savage 110 made in 6.5 Carcano, but with the .264 bore. That would make a sweet hunting rifle for deer and such!

Not backwards just thinking out side the box. The experts tell of the wimpiness of the 6.5x52 and then turn around and call it the 6.5 Grendle (brass is a weebit different) and all declare how great it is! Go figure??!