A fizzle instead of a boom!

[nagantguy]

Keeping with my terrible string of luck this year last night at the beginning of mi's first blizzard I was in my stand and the deer were moving, I saw 8 and I'm sure there were more but I couldn't see them anyhow right at dark a group of 5 doe came in I picked the biggest one and dropped the hammer I heard the cap pop, then heard a secondary weak ignition of the main powder charge and noticed almost no recoil the deer ran off in two groups two to the north and and 3 to the north west. The one I'd shot at went north west I follows there tracks in fresh snow for several hundred yards no hair no blood thought maybe I'd been mistaken so I went and followed the ones that went due north no hair no blood nothing, I went home got the good light and another set of eyes and searched what should have been the impact area for about an hour no hair no blood but I did find the sabot it was just laying on the snow about 10 feet from the muzzle no marks on it looked brand new guess I didn't keep my powder dry! Never had this happen before in my encore!

[johnson1942]

sounds like blackhorn 209 powder. love blackhorn 209 but needs the right breech plug and a clean one and hot shot gun primers. im sure your gun was clean but does it have the right breech plug?

[NSB]

What bullet, powder, and sabot were you using? Just as a side note: I keep a rubber patch on top of the nipple when I'm in the stand and cap the gun when I'm ready to fire. Forty-plus years of this teaches you something. Since I started doing that years ago I've never had a misfire. Had a couple prior to that. Note: I doubt you were using Blackhorn209 since it's not a good choice for a sidelock. If you are using it, I'd suggest trying something else.

[nagantguy]

T/c encore, pyrodex powder, harvester crunch ribs sabots, lee 310 430 boolit, and triple 7 primers!

[johnson1942]

cant help, no idea why pyrodex wouldnt go off? low ignition point, let us know what you figure out.

[NSB]

Ditch the Triple7 primers and just use a regular 209 shotgun primer. Too many problems with the "special" muzzle loading primers. I don't know anyone using them anymore. I'm saying people aren't using them, I'm saying the people I know who shoot muzzle loaders (quite a few people actually) quit using them due to similar results. I have read reports of testing of these primers and the tester got a 4% failure rate. They were designed to eliminate the crud ring you get with 777 but the end result is a lot of reports of misfires. You're better off using a regular 209 and swabbing the crud ring between shots.

[Squeeze]

Odds are, it was a slightly clogged breechplug, or the charge wasn't properly seated or loose, or a combination. Muzzleloader specific primers were introduced to counter the "crud ring" common to triple seven powder. Outside that specific powder, they are typically a hinderance. (I get a crud ring with real black and shotgun primers also) these are powders you should swab between shots with by habit anyway, and the crud ring is easily removed with a moist patch and typical swabbing practices. I feel for your loss, But it's also a lesson learned. I'm betting it never happens to you again.

[curator]

Nagantguy,

Before you loaded your rifle, did you pop a couple of primers to clear the flash channel? This is a common problem if you don't. Oil, dirt, or cleaning solvent will persist in the really tiny flash channel and interfere with ignition if not properly cleared prior to loading. Hang-fire, squib, or total miss-fire are all possible. Probably not the primer's or powder's fault, but last year's Pyrodex can sometimes be stubborn to ignite too.

[SSGOldfart]

I agree get rid of the 777 primers,I changed to Winchester after a miss fire with pyrodex at the range, it was on a very cold day too. I was loading and someone called me,after about a half hour I got back to shooting,first shot was a miss fire,second primer just kinda fizzled too.
So I went back to the same 209's I use for loading shot shells,problem solved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aspangler]

Sounds like oil or solvent in the "chamber" not the primer. As a precaution when you clean the gun, store it muzzle DOWN. this lets any excess oil or any left over solvent drain away from the breech. Works every time.

[quilbilly]

Some years ago I tried Pyrodex for my ML hunting with side lock rifles. I learned quickly that while it works great for mule deer in the desert, it is absolutely horrible during our "monsoon season" in the PacNW. It pulls moisture out of the air much faster than traditional black powder. After several lost opportunities due to either "no bang" or mini-bang" shots I went back to 3F black. Nowadays I use those plastic nipple sleeves over the caps for additional protection to keep air from infiltration the powder along with plenty of lube around the boolit to seal the bore which allows me to keep the same charge in the rifle several days even during our monsoons.

[kenyerian]

I'm not a big pyrodex fan. Tried it when it first came out and went back to the real thing.I prefer black powder over any of the substitutes .

[OverMax]

Just wasn't your evening >to hunt. __I've experienced such hunts myself in past years.

The rifle. Was it a fresh loading Rod'ed down the day of its misfire?___ or___ had it been a left over charging from previous day/s hunted?

[nagantguy]

The load has been in the barrel since mid November, which is common for me with this rifle once the season starts the rifle stays in the barn or truck, never had this problem before but it sure was a slow weak ignition! Looks like no more 777 primers for me I cleaned and inspected the rifle today didn't notice anything out of the ordinary and flash hole was clear, thinking that through rains and snows my powder or primer or both drew in a little moisture.

[True.grit]

Sounds to me like you had a sabot with no Boolit in it.

[Lead pot]

I would agree with aspangler. The primer did it's job enough to push the sabot 10 feet. The powder just did not setoff.

[Josh Smith]

cant help, no idea why pyrodex wouldnt go off? low ignition point, let us know what you figure out.

This happened with my wife's revolver. I left it loaded as an experiment and the charges ask fizzled.

The culprits were the over-powder wads. Whatever lube was in them contaminated the powder.

Josh

[leeggen]

When it is going to rain or snow while on a hunt I place a peice of masking tape over the opening of the barrel. I also place a cap on but put a little beeswax around the cap and nipple. this seals the water/moister out atleast while in the stand. When I pull the cap at the end of day I place a peice of masking tape over the nipple and lower the hammer. This has worked for me many times and so far I have not had a miss fire/fizzle fire. Atleast you didn't have to clean deer in the rain/snow and cold.
CD

[Powder Burn]

+1 like curator: I snap a cap before I load with powder. I then load, and finish off with stretching a finger cut from a latex glove over the muzzle. Seems to keep crud and water out.

[OverMax]

common for me with this rifle once the season starts the rifle stays in the barn or truck, never had this problem before but it sure was a slow weak ignition!
I'm thinking condensation. Cold nights and warm days since mid November with a barrel left in the outside air day & night loaded all that time with a single charge of Pyrodex.__ "I suspect powder/ moisture contamination."
Haven't much experience with using or storing Pyrodex.___ Curious now?

Does Pyrodex have a history of drawing moisture?

As far as I know. Caps & primers either work or they don't. Many shotshell ones I've had in hand had both ends sealed.
On this unusual occasion as stated by the OP (Triple 777 209 primer) it fired on the first hammer drop. Pyrodex on the other-hand suffered a delayed ignition.

[54bore]

Sounds like oil or solvent in the "chamber" not the primer. As a precaution when you clean the gun, store it muzzle DOWN. this lets any excess oil or any left over solvent drain away from the breech. Works every time.

This is something i REALLY need to start doing, ive had plenty of hangfires and this is likely my cause.

[mooman76]

I went hunting once and it snowed all day. It was snowing hard enough that we could hear the deer ahead of us but couldn't see them. At th end of the day the gun would not fire. Took at least 2-3 caps before it would fire. Pyrodex will draw some moisture. It will clump up some from the moisture but can easily be broken up and shot again when dried.

[koger]

I always clean my barrel with acetone, get all the oil out of it before loading/shooting. I also run a dry patch down at the last, and pop a few primers or caps2-3 each. This blows any oil in the breechplug, into the dry patch, which absorbs it, then you can load your gun with confidence. Never had much luck with Pyrodex, I am a Black Powder or BH209 man!

[winelover]

I only use Pyrodex in my muzzle loaders......but the "P" version, because of the small uniform granules. The "RS" version will bridge in tight spaces, due to the uneven granule size. Especially, near the nipple, preventing positive ignition.

I load my Renegade in mid-October and keep it loaded, sometimes till Spring. Never failed to fire. I use small pistol primers in an Accura-shot conversion nipple. This was when I determined that "RS" version wasn't getting all the way down to the primer. The conversion nipple has a huge inside diameter and powder should have been evident. Always stored in the house, after being out in the cold......twenty six degrees this past Saturday AM, IIRC. Never a condensation problem.

Winelover