How do henry big boy rifles handle the higher pressures of the 45 Long Colt?

[Dthunter]

Hi fellow casters/loaders

I recently manage to get a nice little Henry carbine in 45 colt, and am about to start load development soon.
For the first while, I will be shooting the 255 grain hornady cowboy swedged bullets at normal mid to low velocity ranges. Eventually, when my "accurate" mold arrives, I will be shooting some of my own cast bullets at a bit higher performance levels.

I have loaded most of the rifles I own to their higher potential to find the logical accuracy limits. I don't tend to push things dangerously, but just try to reach the highest velocities a given bullet/alloy can accurately tolerate.

I would like to see the experiences/thoughts of those who load for their Henry rifles, of the higher pressure loads. Can the henry rifles handle "safely", the ruger, or t/c type loads listed in some manuals?
I can figure this out by working up my loads I know, but I am not familiar with the relative action strength of the henry, and I do not want to push the pressures over what the rifle is capable of.

I will be shooting the 255 grain bullet range, and hoping to reach the 1050-1150 fps velocity realm. I will be shooting mostly targets, but will be taking an occasional black bear or whitetail/muley. I do not plan on hunting past 100 yards with this rifle. I have more appropriate cartridges/rifles for that kind of work.

Your personal experiences with reloading for the Henry rifles would be appreciated.

[Beagle333]

Here's a search on that. Perhaps one of these past threads might have answered it. (I don't have one)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/google.php?cx=partner-pub-6216953551359885%3A1942134700&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=henry+handle+heavy+loads&sa.x=0&sa.y=0

[fecmech]

I will be shooting the 255 grain bullet range, and hoping to reach the 1050-1150 fps velocity realm.
Max std Colt SA level loads should give you the 1050-1150 velocity in your Henry rifle.

[tazman]

Here is a link to the thread I started on that very question along with the response I got from Henry. Check post 13 for the info from Henry.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?248562-Can-the-Henry-Big-Boy-handle-the-Ruger-only-45-colt-loads

[claude]

Here, please read the SAAMI pressure spec.s for handgun calibers taking into consideration that the Big Boy rifles in 44Mag and 45Colt are made of identical material, in identical physical dimensions, the only differences being cartridge dimensions;

Henry specs...https://www.henryrifles.com/rifles/big-boy/

SAAMI specs..http://handloads.com/misc/saami.htm

I am in no way being condescending, or rude, just trying to put this question to rest, one should be able to extrapolate that if in all instances other than caliber the guns are identical, (excepting ROT) and the 44mag will easily handle 36k PSI, that the 45 Colt Ruger pressures of 25K cup should offer no egregious effects.

But you have to do your own deciding, I have been running stiff loads in my 44 mag for several years with no ill effects.

[CastingFool]

I have a Henry BBS in 45LC. As much as I like the 45LC, I almost wish I had gotten one chambered for 44 mag. (already have the dies, but do not own any firearm chambered in 44 mag) I live in what was known as the shotgun only zone in MI, now renamed the limited firearm zone. you can use straight walled, centerfired cartridges, .35 cal or larger, case min. size 1.16" max 1.8" With the 45LC and my load (Lee 452-200 RF) I basically have a 75 yd rifle. That is about my max range for my 12 ga slugs in my 870, so I really didn't gain anything by going to the Henry. The load I'm using is straight out of the Lyman Cast Bullet manual, but I noticed all their loads were shot with a 16" barrel. My Henry has a 20" barrel. I contacted Lyman and inquired about a velocity increase due to the longer barrel, but I have yet to hear from them. Seems to me like their rifle loads are just about identical to their pistol loads.

[wonderwolf]

I have a Henry BBS in 45LC. As much as I like the 45LC, I almost wish I had gotten one chambered for 44 mag. (already have the dies, but do not own any firearm chambered in 44 mag) I live in what was known as the shotgun only zone in MI, now renamed the limited firearm zone. you can use straight walled, centerfired cartridges, .35 cal or larger, case min. size 1.16" max 1.8" With the 45LC and my load (Lee 452-200 RF) I basically have a 75 yd rifle. That is about my max range for my 12 ga slugs in my 870, so I really didn't gain anything by going to the Henry. The load I'm using is straight out of the Lyman Cast Bullet manual, but I noticed all their loads were shot with a 16" barrel. My Henry has a 20" barrel. I contacted Lyman and inquired about a velocity increase due to the longer barrel, but I have yet to hear from them. Seems to me like their rifle loads are just about identical to their pistol loads.

Really depends on the powder you are using, the slower the powder the more gain you MAY see, if you use a fast powder (which I doubt) you will see diminishing returns.

As far as the Henry goes, they make a 41 mag now I see, dad loves .41 mag....guess I'll have to arrange one for him for a bday gift or something next year :)

[Dthunter]

Thanks guys! I was fairly sure the action could take the high end loads, but didnt have any experience with brass recievers.

I have personally built many custom rigs on steel recievers, and didnt want to ruin a nice rifle using the same approach to load development.

[CastingFool]

thanks for your reply, Wonderwolf. Currently using Unique for my "hunting" loads. Will have to check the Lyman manual for a possible substitute.

[DougGuy]

You won't hurt that Henry with 30kpsi Ruger Only loads. You may not like the recoil but if the 44 magnum is safe with SAAMI factory loads @ 36kpsi, the 45 Colt will be safe with 30kpsi. Henry, for liability reasons likely will not openly admit how strong their rifle is, just as Ruger will not admit their revolvers are safe with Ruger Only loads that are commonly found in published reloading data.

The only issue I can see with it is the 1:38 twist rate, this is fairly slow for a straight walled pistol caliber, you would have to drive heavy boolits fairly hard to gain enuogh spin to stabilize them so unless you want to go to the Ruger Only loads with hunting boolits, it may not do well beyond 50 yards with standard 14kpsi 45 Colt loads.

[Dthunter]

Good points on the stability issue for heavy for caliber bullets.

i dont plan on shooting anything heavier than the 255 grain cast bullet.

[winelover]

FWIW, there has been a discussion on another cast bullet forum as well as this statement to a well respected member of this forum.

Mr. Imperato just sent me a follow up message indicating the twist rate of the .45 Colt Big Boy rifles is 1:16, is that awesome or what? I replied that it might improve sales if the specific information was more clear in the catalog.



Winelover

[DougGuy]

FWIW, there has been a discussion on another cast bullet forum as well as this statement to a well respected member of this forum.

Mr. Imperato just sent me a follow up message indicating the twist rate of the .45 Colt Big Boy rifles is 1:16, is that awesome or what? I replied that it might improve sales if the specific information was more clear in the catalog.



Winelover

That's certainly good to know! Why have they not put this info on the page? This was actually a deterrent for me not to buy one, I was under the impression that Chiappa was the only maker of a levergun that had a PROPER twist for cast boolits in 45 Colt.

[CastingFool]

After reading Winelover's post, I went and ran a rod down the barrel of my Henry BBS in 45LC. It is 1:16"

[35 shooter]

It seems only the 44 mag. is 1/38. They need to make that clear on their website.
They list the twist on the 44 mag. as 1/38 and then give no specs on 45 colt or 357 mag.
Leads one to believe they're all the same, which they are not.

1/16 on 45 colt and i believe 357 mag. also. Only the 44 is 1/38.
I believe they would have even more sales if they straighten that out on their website.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

It seems only the 44 mag. is 1/38. They need to make that clear on their website.
They list the twist on the 44 mag. as 1/38 and then give no specs on 45 colt or 357 mag.
Leads one to believe they're all the same, which they are not.

1/16 on 45 colt and i believe 357 mag. also. Only the 44 is 1/38.
I believe they would have even more sales if they straighten that out on their website.

I've been wanting to know what twist that Henry is putting in them for 41 mag.
my LGS ordered one last winter/spring...it still hasn't arrived yet.

[35 shooter]

Dthunter, Congrats on your new Henry. I've been researching everything i could find on them lately and would love to have one in 45 colt along with a new handgun in same.

Hope you do some testing before long and post the results if you can, i know i'd love to hear about it.
I think your going to really like that little rifle.

[Multigunner]

I wonder if the alloy used for these frames is actually a brass or a bronze. The distinction between the two is often blurred.

Bronze alloys are in general far tougher than Brass alloys. The Confederacy found this out when they cast some Spiller&Burr revolver frames from recycled commercial brass rather than bronze as the manufacturer had originally intended, Bronze being reserved for casting cannon barrels and ships fittings. Bronze can stretch and recover its shape while brass stays stretched till it reaches the point when it separates. Brass also work hardens and becomes brittle while Bronze just gets harder when compressed by impacts.
The toughest Bronze of the 19th and early 20th century was called "gunmetal" because it was best suited for BP era cannon barrels and later used for fittings of some more modern guns like the Maxim. The Napolean 12 pdr was made of Bronze.

Some gunmakers have produced revolvers in very powerful calibers with frames made of Beryllium Bronze which is up to three times tougher than common tool steel.

[35 shooter]

I've been wanting to know what twist that Henry is putting in them for 41 mag.
my LGS ordered one last winter/spring...it still hasn't arrived yet.
I don't have a clue on the 41 mag. as i only did searches on the 357 and 45 colt. The info i got was from actual owners in the archives here after quite a bit of searching.

That info on twist rates was backed up on another site as per one of the above posts said.

[Dthunter]

Thanks guy for the info!

i have been waiting for a day with realistic weather conditions to go shooting.

the last 1.5 weeks the temp has been hovering aroud -22F or colder! Today it went all the way up to 0 F, but we had 15-17mph winds steady all day! Talk about gettin Cabin fever with a new toy waitng to go play!

maybe tomorrow. I already have a bunch of loads already set up to try some of hornadys 255 cowboy swedged bullets. I can hardly wait to get my molds though!

[DougGuy]

Might get some leading with the swaged boolits. As far as alloy, the velocity you want to shoot is very conducive to the same as what works in a Ruger, I would suggest a mix of 50/50+2% which would be 50% coww, 50% pure lead, and 2% tin. With soft lube like Felix, randyrat's Tac1, or even SPG you would have my favorite alloy of all for 45 Colt, and I never need to clean the bore.

[Dthunter]

I will be going with 18 lbs of wheel weight alloy + 8 feer of lead free solder. Air cooled.

i wont be venturing past 1000 fps with these swedged bullets for sure.

[CPL Lou]

Buffalo Bore says Ruger level loads are safe:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=335

If you scroll down on the page, you will see a list of acceptable firearms.
The Henry Big Boy is on that list.
Hope this helps.

CPL Lou

[MyFlatline]

I recently got the 45 in Big Boy Steel, using the Accurate 255 mold and 7.6 gns. Unique. Things are looking pretty good so far in week 1 of testing.182992

[Dthunter]

Thank you very much gentelman!

[Kosh75287]

Alliant Powder lists 15.4/2400/250LSWC as max in .45 Colt. From a 5.5" barrel, the load clocks 972 f/s. I suspect that, given the much longer barrel and the slower burning nature of Alliant 2400, you could see a very usable increase in velocities without having to push the higher limits of the Henry's tolerance for pressure. Of course, I have no idea about the availability of Alliant 2400, where you are.

[Flinchrock]

After reading Winelover's post, I went and ran a rod down the barrel of my Henry BBS in 45LC. It is 1:16"


When I brought my Henry .45 Colt home the first things I did after cleaning was to slug the bore and check ROT, came out .4515 and 1:16. I thought I had a fortunate mistake.

It shoots an Accurate 280gr fpgc with 23gr H110 very well. :mrgreen:

[Dthunter]

I was out shooting this morning, trying the ruger/tc loads in my Henry big boy.

Starting at the lowest charge for H110, and lil Gun, I got some very interesting results!

The 250 grain Hornady XTP hollow point was chronygraphed at 1580fps at starting grains for H110, and 1599 with lilgun!

By the time max charges were shot (no extraction issues present or over pressure signs on the brass), the velocities were up to 1675 and 1695 fps average! Yikes!

1-1/4" groups at 75 yards with lilgun and 2" with H110! Very happy with that! I didnt expect that much of an improvement with the 20" barrel! But am impressed with the 45Lc Henry big boy!

[35 shooter]

Those are some impressive numbers for your new rifle. Very nice.

[woodbutcher]

:-D In the ads and articles that I have read regarding the brass BB Henrys.They are "Hardened Brass".Hope this helps.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[ebner glocken]

I'm not sure what henry's "brass" material is but I do know a magnet will stick right to it. It sure does look like brass though. If I remember right they call it "brass light". If anyone knows exactly what the alloy is I think most here would like to know.

Ebner

[jmort]

It is a brass alloy with the strength of many steel alloys. I do not know the exact composition

[CPL Lou]

Using Buffalo Bore 260 HP +P load out of my Marlin 1894 CB 24" barrel I'm getting 1940fps, average for 10 shots.
I get 1515fps out of my 7.5" Bisley Blackhawk with the same load.
I suspect the 260HP is actually Hornady's 250 XTP.

CPL Lou

[Flinchrock]

It is a brass alloy with the strength of many steel alloys. I do not know the exact composition

These Henry's are a lot stronger than folks think and are quite capable and accurate rifles.
I don't recommend running any firearm to its absolute limits as an everyday practice, but for the amount of rounds
used for hunting, there shouldn't be any problems.