DIY paper shot cup to replace plastic wad?

[Survival Bill]

Can one make 12 ga paper shot cups to replace plastic wads I am just wondering as since we have to use steel shot that I want to still protect my shotgun barrel but am wondering if their are pressure problems if paper does not compress would they have to be lubed or what ever or will a paper shot cup work just fine for a plastic wad replacement?

[leftiye]

I've used plastic (visquene) sheeting to make liners around special goose loads, but underneath the shot, I'd think that something like feltan Blue Streak wads or a pile of card wads could be used. I'd doubt that some kind of wet formed paper cup would do any better - even if it held together. Ballistic Pattern Drivers used the feltan wads over a plastic gas seal (inverted short heavy cup). There used to be an Alcan Flite max E shot cup for magnum amounts of shot. Check with Ballistic Pattern Drivers in Wyzatta Minnesota. I used to kill rabbits at 80 yards and more with these. Made about a 2" pattern at 15 -30 yards.

[marlinman93]

My concern with a paper cup would be the lack of cushion under the shot. That cushion on plastic wads is there for a very good reason! It's a part of the accuracy and pattern of shot, so you will likely need to replace it with a thick cork wad, and hope that does as well.
Since plastic wads are readily available, why wouldn't you use plastic? Is this a muzzleloader shotgun?

[Survival Bill]

I would/could use a cushion wad of some kind under the paper shot cup thats not a problem, I just wanted to know if it would work or not with using paper for holding the shot together to protect the barrel from steel shot damage. I am planning on using BB size shot if paper cup is viable?
it would just be a matter of winding paper around a right sized dowel a few times to create the shot cup I would assume it would be that easy to make..

[Survival Bill]

I've used plastic (visquene) sheeting to make liners around special goose loads, but underneath the shot, I'd think that something like feltan Blue Streak wads or a pile of card wads could be used. I'd doubt that some kind of wet formed paper cup would do any better - even if it held together. Ballistic Pattern Drivers used the feltan wads over a plastic gas seal (inverted short heavy cup). There used to be an Alcan Flite max E shot cup for magnum amounts of shot. Check with Ballistic Pattern Drivers in Wyzatta Minnesota. I used to kill rabbits at 80 yards and more with these. Made about a 2" pattern at 15 -30 yards.
I do intend on using some kind of wading under the shot cup.
So would visquene be needed cuz it is more slick than using paper?

[leftiye]

Plastic sheathing wouldn't necessarily be needed, but might work well. Manila paper would seem to be fine too. I used it for that same purpose when loading copper plated #2s. You just roll it up (after determining length needed) inside the shell before adding the shot. In the case of the plastic - two layers thick.

[GhostHawk]

I believe that BPI sells teflon and mylar wraps for this purpose.

Good company, good service, good people, who are incredibly dedicated to better shotgunning.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Wraps-Inserts/departments/513/

(http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Wraps-Inserts/departments/513/)

[Survival Bill]

Plastic sheathing wouldn't necessarily be needed, but might work well. Manila paper would seem to be fine too. I used it for that same purpose when loading copper plated #2s. You just roll it up (after determining length needed) inside the shell before adding the shot. In the case of the plastic - two layers thick.
OK so thats what I wanted to know as I want to protect the barrel of my shotgun when using steel type shot using standered loads sounds like I can give it a try with out blowing things up.. I am also using full brass shells and plastic wads are to small anyways. I have been using lead shot with no issues with just an over powder wad and over shot wad. and was just worried with steel shot that it would damage the barrel with out some kind of sidewall protection...

[marlinman93]

I think wrapping paper around something isn't the best answer. I'd want the paper to be a cup, so the bottom is closed. More like a coffee filter is in your coffee pot. I'd get someone to make me a bushing with a hole in it sized to the finished paper cup. Then turn a wooden dowel to fit inside it with clearance for the paper. Then the paper can be pushed into the bushing dampened, and cut off even with the top with a razor. Once formed, they could be set in a wooden buck to dry, and filed with shot before putting them in the shell.
You would have to figure out what thickness paper worked best, and would hold up against the steel shot, so it wouldn't break through and wear out your barrel.

[Survival Bill]

yes paper wise I am thinking of using file folder paper as I have plenty around or just more wraps using printer paper but the hard part will be how to know its its actually working?

[GrayTech]

I don't see paper cups maintaining shape until they leave that barrel. Would likely crumple and may interfere with pattern. I would stay with plastic wads for steel shot.

[country gent]

Shot cups can be formed on a mandrel cut a patch of paper the width required for hieght of cup and fold under. use angled ends on the patch as this makes for stronger joints and smoother fold over. Mark dowel for depth of shot cup desired and roll a dampened patch around it. twist the base under and fold lat against the dowels base. I would dampen the paper with lee sizing die wax and water 1 part wax and 3 parts water. This will help the paper roll tight and hold thru drying. It also helps to ake the fold over easier and sharper. A small radious on the dowel helps also. If the cups are holding shot to long 3,4 or 5 even cuts down the cup with a razor or exacto knife will help them release the shot charge. Go 2 wraps of typing paper 30*-45* ends so they just almost meet ( about .030 gap is good so paper lays flat with no ridge). This cup may unwrap similar to a paper patched bullet or may need the cuts. While paper may work the plastic cups or sheeting may give a better cushin as they are thicker and softer.

[Survival Bill]

thats excellent info country gent I look forward now to giving the paper cup a go now and see if everything works out.. I have paper patched bullets before so will make up a pattern to keep things consistent while testing.

[longbow]

Marlinman93 and country gent beat me to it ~ what they said about cups. I would use a heavy paper and at least two wraps with folded, rolled, twisted or whatever base to form a cup to hold the shot. That way there is no paper tube part way down your barrel with wad and shot long gone. That could be bad! A cup will ensure that the whole works leaves the bore.

As for determining if it works, I would test with a shotgun you don't worry about and shoot a few rounds then examine the bore and choke carefully for and gouges, grooves, or whatever surface damage. Finding the remains of the paper cup will also be informative. If there are dimples with holes right through then you know they are not working well.

Are you bent on using steel shot? Bismuth won't hurt the bore. It is expensive but for hunting not that many rounds are fired.

Nonetheless I am betting you can make paper cups work. I'd suggest using mica or graphite as lube on the paper cups too. It may help and certainly won't hurt.

Longbow

[Survival Bill]

I have an old single shot that I use for testing. I am pretty much stuck with steel shot ask for Bismuth in the gun shops here in BC Canada and they start looking at you strange as they tilt their head LOL.. I will test a different lube choices as well this will be a fun project for me.
yes checking the paper cup will be very interesting if it does not end up as confetti..
I am wondering now after reading that some are coating their bullets, could steel shot be coated as well and work? ah them gears in my head just never stop...

[leftiye]

Actually, I don't think it will crumple. The reason being that it is caught/positioned between the barrel and the shot, and the shot column won't compress (unless you raise pressures until the shot deforms into cubes heh heh). The shot will press into the paper and form dimples that will allow the shot to grip the paper or plastic.

[GrayTech]

Interested to hear about results. I would lube the outside of the paper cup as paper is somewhat abrasive and therefore will have quite a bit of friction with even a smooth barrel.
I have been theorizing about this myself for a while. I was thinking a payload wrapped in a paper tube, twisted closed at both ends, and slit vertically in a few places around the front to about ⅓ down.

[marlinman93]

Paper wont hurt the barrel or have too much friction. If it did then people loading paper patched bullets would be in big trouble! Don't lube the paper, or it will just build up burnt lube in the shotgun's bore. The paper or plastic cup has no place to go if it's inside the barrel, and supported by a wad. My biggest concern is still whether the paper will hold up against the shot after it's pushed up the barrel at 1300 fps. If you ever recover spent plastic wad cups you can see how much the shot imprints on those. I'd not make up very many to start, and then after firing a few I'd try to find them. Shouldn't be an issue, as paper is so light it wont go far after exiting the bore. If they show signs of penetrating the paper I'd stop shooting them.
I still think simply buying plastic wads is the safest, and easiest answer to loading steel or lead shotshells.

[leftiye]

Interested to hear about results. I would lube the outside of the paper cup as paper is somewhat abrasive and therefore will have quite a bit of friction with even a smooth barrel.
I have been theorizing about this myself for a while. I was thinking a payload wrapped in a paper tube, twisted closed at both ends, and slit vertically in a few places around the front to about ⅓ down.

At least two full length slits, three is better. This is so the sleeve will catch the air as the charge leaves the barrel, and disconnect without messing up the pattern.

[Survival Bill]

I will try with and without slits and see what happens.

[MT Chambers]

I would not use paper as a replacement for special steel shot wads, which are much tougher than the common wads used for lead shot, you will scar your barrel.

[longbow]

Another thought... the paper might tear as the payload leaves the cartridge and enters the forcing cone especially if using 2 3/4" hulls in a 3" chamber. If the paper tears then the steel shot could get to your barrel. I'd test with lead shot first then recover what's left of the paper tubes to see if you can determine if they shredded or tore. if they are layered and glued they should be pretty tough so a tear should show up.

You can order bismuth shot from Will Bilozir in Alberta. He is a Canadian BPI distributor.

You can also order Mylar and Teflon wraps and it might be a good idea to use Mylar or Telflon wraps inside your paper tube then if the tube does tear the wrap will contain the shot. Hmmm, Mylar and Teflon wraps are used with shot anyway so maybe easier and safer than using paper though not readily available. Now having said that if these wraps are safe with shot then even your paper tube shouldn't need a closed bottom as I first said.

Testing should tell you anyway. Good plan.

Longbow

[charlie b]

Why are you not using std wads made for steel?

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Multi-Metal-Wads/products/652/

[marlinman93]

Why are you not using std wads made for steel?

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Multi-Metal-Wads/products/652/

Yes, the question has been asked previously, with no reply.

[rancher1913]

how about shotcups made from plastic milk jugs, there is a fellow on here that is finding it works for pistol shot loads so it would just be a bigger cup.

[Survival Bill]

Why are you not using std wads made for steel?

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Multi-Metal-Wads/products/652/

Dont think they will work with brass shells to much blow by that is why I want to work with paper/cardboard

[Survival Bill]

how about shotcups made from plastic milk jugs, there is a fellow on here that is finding it works for pistol shot loads so it would just be a bigger cup.

That is a great option for me to try as well thanks.

[Survival Bill]

Another thought... the paper might tear as the payload leaves the cartridge and enters the forcing cone especially if using 2 3/4" hulls in a 3" chamber. If the paper tears then the steel shot could get to your barrel. I'd test with lead shot first then recover what's left of the paper tubes to see if you can determine if they shredded or tore. if they are layered and glued they should be pretty tough so a tear should show up.

You can order bismuth shot from Will Bilozir in Alberta. He is a Canadian BPI distributor.

You can also order Mylar and Teflon wraps and it might be a good idea to use Mylar or Telflon wraps inside your paper tube then if the tube does tear the wrap will contain the shot. Hmmm, Mylar and Teflon wraps are used with shot anyway so maybe easier and safer than using paper though not readily available. Now having said that if these wraps are safe with shot then even your paper tube shouldn't need a closed bottom as I first said.

Testing should tell you anyway. Good plan.

Longbow

Testing with lead first may be the smartest way to go so if their is a failure at least I wont be doing any damage...
theirs a reason I ask here first always get answers for things I did not think about doing or trying...

[marlinman93]

Dont think they will work with brass shells to much blow by that is why I want to work with paper/cardboard

Guys use them all the time with brass shell casings in cowboy action shooting.

[sharps4590]

As you're using brass hulls you're obviously also using, probably, a hard card and fiber cushion wad. Paper shot cups should work fine. I use them in all my BP, brass case loads. I would question whether or not they will protect your bore from the steel shot, not whether or not they will work as a shot cup.

[seppos]

Do you have Tetra pak type of cardboard pacs in the States? They have plastic or wax coated cardboard that might be suitable for this need.

S

[charlie b]

I use plastic wads in brass shells, but, mine are 20ga.

[mazo kid]

I am in the process of loading some original brass 12 ga. shells with black powder. I have developed a pattern with 5 petals, made from file folder stock for a shot cup. I load the BP, an over powder card, then fiber cushion wad(s), the shot cup/shot, and cards to make the up the rest of the column height. I haven't shot any of these, but I don't see why this shouldn't work, the shot cup is between wads so should stay together. At least, I hope. Time will tell.

[Captain R]

I know this is and old thread but I've been working on building some short (2") shells and tried a paper sleeve made from sheet rock joint tape that actually worked well. My purpose was to keep cast #1 buck off the barrel as in the plastic wads using straight walled hulls with gas seal, cushion wad and assorted fillers to build the column and still keep the shot from leading the barrels. I cut the tape into 2.5" pieces and using the fold line built into the tape halved the cut pieces. after figuring out the shot column height I cut some tabs and pre-folded them to the middle of what became the shot collar and also made a partial base for the cup and the shot to sit on. The collars didn't appear to slip or crumple up. From the pictures282582

they appear to have stayed in place to the muzzle where they were torn by gas expansion. The paper wasn't pierced where the pellets rode the bore as is seen in the plastic wad. I measured no significant velocity change between shells with paper collars an those without but didn't record an improvement in pattern density that I was hoping for either.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

You said you would use 'BB' size shot. BB's for air rifles are much harder than 'steel' shot made for loading shotgun shells. Air rifle BB's can damage your shotgun barrel due to hardness. I hope you were talking about shotgunning steel shot.

[Mossy88]

Can one make 12 ga paper shot cups to replace plastic wads I am just wondering as since we have to use steel shot that I want to still protect my shotgun barrel but am wondering if their are pressure problems if paper does not compress would they have to be lubed or what ever or will a paper shot cup work just fine for a plastic wad replacement?

Im definitely going to start making my own wads and cards. I went out a couple weekends in a row shooting at the little range on my sisters property they set up....yeah...plastic everywhere.
I just ordered a punch off ebay to make the cards and wads with...just need to get some cork and whatever else I can use that will degrade quick.
I know if I had property and someone wanted to shoot or hunt i dont want plastic wads all over my woods.

[Harter66]

BB sized shot is .186 , size B is .177 as is air rifle shot . For clarity only .