Stuck breech plug

[daengmei]

I just pulled out the CVA muzzleloader and went to the range. Not too happy. First, the shot using triple 7 powder pellets felt and sounded like a 22. Searching the target and area I did not see any evidence of a shot so I thought maybe it didn't fire...not much experience with muzzleloaders so I started to remove the breech cap to check the bore. The breach cap exhibited some very light rust but it bent the supplied allen wrench. Into the tool bag for a set of allens I've used for some years and I broke it. The cap
is in there. Some initial break free till I can use some penetrating oil. I hope this comes out.

Now to the pellets. They are 1 year old and I've kept the case snapped shut. Must have absorbed moisture? I guess this tells me to buy more. I did use two different primers and both seemed to work. Can these absorb moisture too or are they sealed as I would expect?

So what do you guys do to keep the pellets fresh?

I have looked into the bore with a cheap camera and it did fire....just with little pressure.

There was no rust in the bore, I patched it dry to start and it was still clean.

[daengmei]

I must be tired, I did no search before posting this thread.

[rfd]

exactly what cva ml model is this and how old?

[daengmei]

CVA Buckhorn magnum just over a year. Been stored since use last season.

[rfd]

oh, a zip gun. sorry, can't help ya there, good luck!

[LUCKYDAWG13]

first off mark your ramrod put it in your empty barrel and mark it now the next time your not sure if it's loaded or not
put the ramrod in if it's at the mark then it's empty I keep my powder in a ammo can and put this in http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/gun-storage/gun-safe-accessories%7C/pc/104792580/c/104730480/sc/472735080/liberty-hydrosorbent-silica-gel/1545358.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fgun-safe-accessories%2F_%2FN-1111155%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_472735080

[curator]

rfd,

Did you pop a couple of primers before loading the gun to be sure the flash channel was open? Often, oil seeps into the flash channel and prevents the first loading from igniting. Obviously, you can't go back in time and do this over again. However, ANY muzzle loader should have the flash channel verified clear before being loaded. I advise my students to put the muzzle of the unloaded gun about 3 or 4 inches away from some dry leaves or blades of grass and fire off a couple of primers or caps. If the flash channel is open, you will see evidence of air coming out of the barrel, indicating it is OK to load the gun. On my CVA breech plug, I can insert a fine welding torch nozzle cleaning wire to clean and clear this channel. Use Kroil or 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone to soak breech end for a day or two before trying the breech plug again. If you are sure there is no projectile in it, a small amount of heat usually helps a great deal. Allen-wrench sockets are available at most hardware stored and sure beat the little bent hex-rods. Once the breech plug is out, clean the threads thoroughly, inside and out and treat them with anti-seize compound before re-installing. That way you can insure you will never have this problem again.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Allen wrench?

The buckhorn's ive seen used a slotted screw driver style wrench.

With that style of rifle, its a must to use anti seize on the breech plug threads. Its a dirty design and powder fouling gets into the threads, locking it up into the barrel. I used to use a small propane torch and heat around the barrel where the plug is installed and with the BP wrench, keep pressure while heating, then it pops loose. Boiling water is also another trick, but never tried it as the torch was faster and less wet.

Pellets will easily go mad within a year. I had some that were new in the package, stilled wrapped in plastic and when I opened them, they were a white chalky like powder that crumbled. That rifle is best used with loose powder due to its open/exposed ignition. That slotted breech plug looses a ton of the primers heat because its not sealed off, causing the pellet to fail to ignite at times.

[rfd]

rfd,

Did you pop a couple of primers before loading the gun to be sure the flash channel was open? Often, oil seeps into the flash channel and prevents the first loading from igniting. Obviously, you can't go back in time and do this over again. However, ANY muzzle loader should have the flash channel verified clear before being loaded. I advise my students to put the muzzle of the unloaded gun about 3 or 4 inches away from some dry leaves or blades of grass and fire off a couple of primers or caps. If the flash channel is open, you will see evidence of air coming out of the barrel, indicating it is OK to load the gun. On my CVA breech plug, I can insert a fine welding torch nozzle cleaning wire to clean and clear this channel. Use Kroil or 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone to soak breech end for a day or two before trying the breech plug again. If you are sure there is no projectile in it, a small amount of heat usually helps a great deal. Allen-wrench sockets are available at most hardware stored and sure beat the little bent hex-rods. Once the breech plug is out, clean the threads thoroughly, inside and out and treat them with anti-seize compound before re-installing. That way you can insure you will never have this problem again.

oops, think you meant the OP, daengmei (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?16692-daengmei), and not me.

[daengmei]

Allen wrench?

Hey I said I was unfamiliar and TIRED! Breech cap is what I shoulda said. Just sprayed with Blaster and tapped. Now to wait and hope. I do have a set of allen socket bits. I hope the cap will come out.

Thanks for the help.
Jim

[dbowling]

Its a breech plug and if you can not get it out no matter what you try take it to a welding shop and have them tig weld a 3/8 extension to the plug and use a breaker bar or impact to take it out.. I had to do this to 2 used knight in lines I bought that the guys told me they had taken great care of and plugs would come right out, luckily I only paid 70-80 bucks for each one due to barrels having some rust in them..
welding shop charged me 10.00 and was well worth it after trying kroil, pb blaster, boiling water etc.

[daengmei]

I haven't yet concentrated on getting the cap off. But I might have a chance to hunt, so I did shoot again. Turns out the flash hole had oil, which I was too blind to know or consider. Did the test fire with only primer and cleared/checked it. Fired a 50 yd that was almost dead bull, another just to the right of that. Went to 100 yd and proceeded to get worse. I was rodding every 2 rounds and after the first 2, noticed it took considerable force to load. Chased a few with the scope to mere frustration, they were all over the place. Set the scope back to original and fired again at 50 to find a shot 16" high. There was more recoil so I stopped there. Came home and searched.....crud ring....boy do I have a few to learn. Cleaned as best I could, went back yesterday to give it another try. First shot below at 100 yd. I got it now. The cap and plug will wait till after last day. Now if my contact calls.


100 yds
14 degrees
intermittent gusts to 15mph

182840

[nannyhammer]

I've found that loosening the breech plug before you leave the range while the barrel is still warm will help prevent them from getting stuck. If I'm shooting several times when sighting in, I always loosen/retighten it every three rounds to prevent them from seizing.

[daengmei]

If/once I get everything apart, I will adopt better ways. I am an old shooter, just new to black powder and my forethought is lacking LOL.

[Smoke4320]

a std 125 PSI shop compressor forcing air down the nipple will tell you if a load is present or not

actually have unloaded several muzzleloaders by hitting them with 750 PSI of air down the nipple :)
I have a 6000 PSI Shop compressor to fill paintball tanks

[northmn]

Are you lubing the projectiles and if so what with. Your patterns sound to me like they are due to fouling. If you are using heavy loads they foul out faster. You may need to swab between shots.

DP

[725]

I'd do mild heat and a soak in 50/50 acetone - ATF. Repeat until it comes apart. Anti-seaze in the future. Clean it like the devil after each use. Good luck. I hate doing these.

[OverMax]

Just saying;
If you can't find a way to remove the plug. Clean the barrel like a side lock is done.. By it's ram rod plunger'ing it in soapy hot water.
I believe having a stuck breech plug doesn't mean the usefulness of a inline is no longer. As I see such a unwanted circumstance. It becomes a small matter of its suggested cleaning way that needs to be re-visited.

[daengmei]

Just to be clear, I have not yet tried to remove the plug because the BREECH CAP is stuck. Destroyed 2 Allen wrenches. I apologize for being wrong about the part description initially. I have not been using lube, didn't think I was supposed to using 270gr Powerbelt Platinum bullets. This with 2 777 pellets and 777 primers. I did use regular Winchester 209 primers first because I had them and somewhere I read this is ok, now I've read that they may be just a bit hot.
I do realize cleaning after each round when possible now, but I was hoping at least 2, if I need a follow-up shot.

But I won't need 2.:wink:

One more day I could hunt and then I'll get it apart. Breech plug groove is facing the breech opening and I will get it out somehow if I can't get the cap off.

Thanks for the ideas so far.
Jim

[Col4570]

I have had some success removing breach Plugs by heating a Tin can of Engine Oil until it smokes and standing the Barrel Breach down in it.Repeat as necessary.Have a piece of Metal sheet ready to snuff out flames if the Oil catches fire during heating.

[daengmei]

Buckhorn Magnum...not listed.

[skeettx]

OK, FINALLY understand
STEP 1 is the issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXPI2MWRu_c

[Smoke4320]

soak the allen head screw with Kroils for several days reapply as necessary

then tap/rap allen wrench stuck in allen head screw somewhat hard several times then screw rust should be broken up and allen screw should be somewhat easily removed

[daengmei]

Now I can get to some of these great suggestions.....let ya know this weekend.
Thanks,
Jim

[daengmei]

I got the breech cap off. The impact socket only finished stripping the hole, got no luck there. With the barrel lug still in a vise and using a cheap pair of channel locks made for round stock I got it to come off. Took a fair turn to loosen and there were 2 spots of rust where the cap sits flush against the barrel. Some rust on the threads but the penetrating oil made it seem very minor. The plug itself took no force to remove, either the penetrating oil did it's job or I put the correct amount of anti seize on it. Time for a new cap.
Thanks

[skeettx]

Thanks for the update

[daengmei]

Now that it's off, the cap no longer can be used with the appropriate allen wrench. I've searched and no where is one available and the Buckhorn Magnum is no longer in production. Anybody know if there is another model that would fit? I was thinkin about drilling out, tapping and putting in a hardened set screw plug, using Hi Temp Locktight and hoping that will work. TIG weld in place another option.

[skeettx]

And you have tried these folks?
CVA Customer Service Department
1270 Progress Center Ave. Suite 100
Lawrenceville, GA 30043
770-449-4687

[Gtek]

Why not drill through to a size that would allow you to file in new larger hex, 5/16", 3/8"? Cap just keeps spring, right? Clean all and run in to finger tight, figure 3-9 o'clock, cut 1/8" groove across back and use a piece of flat stock for wrench? You won the battle, now make it light on yourself.

[daengmei]

I will give them a call. I was considering the groove/slot also.