45 vs 50 vs 54 caliber

[archeryrob]

I have been shooting a hawken 50 caliber for years. I've been happy with it and shoots well and pokes a hole in deer just fine.

Now, I have that old school itch and want to get a Lancaster Flinter kit eventually after I learn enough. Part of this is how much difference is there between the calibers? I know 45 is the more traditional and what I am leaning toward, but I need more education first to be happy. So, Does one caliber have better ballistics over distance than the others?

According to what I have read on the Goex site you can get the same velocity with all calibers with varying loads. So I assume that would only change muzzle energy with the larger caliber have more energy from a larger bullet. I don;t really think its going to make any difference on white-tailed deer. What I did find different to me was they recommended 3f for the 45 on the rifle/musket chart. .

[GoexBlackhorn]

I would contact the manufacturer and find out which caliber has the best sales. Less and less of these traditional MLs are being sold every year. Find out which caliber will have the biggest supply of parts available for decades to come. I'm guessing it will be the 50-cal - followed by the 54.

[waarp8nt]

There is something to be said about a large chunck of lead hitting an animal. That being said....I believe I would stick with the largest traditional caliber for the project. If that is .45 caliber so be it. Like you mentioned, a .45 caliber smoke pole will take a deer, expecially with a well placed shot. Terminal performance down range is first limited by the the hunters ability to shoot accurately. Sounds like your got your shooting down, having already taken some whitetail deer.

[Bulliwig]

I would not go with the .45. Rather with the .50 or .54. The .45 ,if you are using round balls, ist loosing much of its energy really fast.

[obx-shooter]

There are those who get great results with 3f in guns like the .577 Enfields and Minie bullets and I know some who much favor it shooting the .54 Great Plains Rifle behind a patched round ball.

I had the use of a .50 GPR that worked pretty good on the goat sized whitetail we have around here, but there was nothing it could do the .54 wouldn't do a smidge better with a PRB. I recently acquired a TC Hawken in .45 to teach my grandchildren muzzleloading basics off the bench. I have to say it is a thoroughly pleasant plinker when loaded down to 40 gr or so w/ PRB. They have only been to the range once with it but if they continue to enjoy it a Cherokee or Seneca might be in the future.

There is also something attractive to me in rifles like the Parker Hale Volunteer in .451. I actually have a .45 cal fast twist barrel (1:30) on the way that will go in a Renegade stock. Way cheaper than the Volunteer (though I love the looks of that rifle.).

[mooman76]

Myself, I'd go with the 45. You can use 3f in 45 but many use it in 50 and larger calibers these days. 45, you get more shots per #. If you ever plan on hunting anything larger than deer some day, then I'd go with the 54.

[rfd]

all depends on what are your requirements for the new rifle. if hunting, and the critters are larger animals than simple deer, nothing less than a .54 imho. deer and lesser critters, either a .45 or .50 can more than get the job done, and you already have a .50 hawken. also realize that a pinned full stock flintrock will not be as easy to clean/maintain as a hooked breech hawken half stock. but there is much mojo nostalgia in a classic full stock. i went with one, too - a .62 smoothbore - sweet and she throws Big Balls that'll kill anything in north america out to 50 or even 75 yards ... not to mention the ability to throw shot at the little ground and air game. ;)

[54bore]

If you were gonna shoot bullets i would ABSOLUTELY say go 45 Cal!!! But if you plan on shooting Round Balls the .54 Cal will hit like a freight train! I personally have ZERO desire to shoot Round Balls, i'd much rather shoot a BIG boolit, that being said i have YET to get a 54 to shoot a bullet to my satisfaction, i am bound and determined to get a 54 that will, but i will likely end up buying a Lyman Great Plains Hunter (Fast Twist 1:32) or a Pedersoli Hawken Hunter (fast twist 1:28) or send a neglected .45 or .50 Cal Renegade or Hawken Barrel to Bobby Hoyt and have him bore it out to 54 and Hotrod twist it. The stock 1:48 twist in my 54s so far have NOT performed to my liking with bullets, and ive tried about every bullet mold available (i own 8 54 Cal bullet molds) different powder charges, with an over powder, without, etc. i have 4 .54 Cal barrels and they all shoot about the same, Mediocre at best. I have one more to try, a little TC New Englander in 54 Cal that i just got done setting up with a Lyman 57SML tang mounted peep, Lyman 17AHB globe front sight with a lee shavers insert. I plan to try some paper patched and sized bullets in it sized to .539, along with some lubed Maxi Balls, if i were a betting man i'd bet this little New Englander ends up shooting right along side the other 4 .54 Cals i own. I really need to try some PRB's in these 54s just so i can say i have done it, what I've been told is the stock 1:48 twist barrels tend to shoot Round Balls really well? So bullets id go 45 Cal, patched round ball i would probably go 54

[rfd]

rifling twist is important for any of the rifle calibers you have in mind. for patched balls, a slow twist of 60" to 70". for conicals, a faster 20" to 32" twist. the compromise that most, but not all, offshore guns exhibit is 48", which can do balls or bullets reasonably well (REALs *might* work fine), maybe, possibly. again, it all depends on YOUR requirements, not anyone else's idea of what you should be thinking or doing. so, define yer requirements, research the options, and move ahead.

i use swiss 3f for all flintlock muzzleloaders, rifles and smoothies, .32, .36, .40, .45, .50, .54, .58, .62 - both down the tube and in the pan.

[509thsfs]

I've taken deer with all three using only PRB, though only took my 1st with my new .45 this year. Took a lot more over the years with the .50 and .54. The .54 definitely will take a deer with more authority, but never felt under gunned with the .50 cal. I took a lot of deer with ease with my 1st .50 cal and never felt under gunned up to 75 yds. Matter of fact, just finished building a .50 cal and using it this year for the PA flintlock season in a couple weeks. I was pleasantly surprised with the .45 I built when I took my 1st deer with it at a little over 60 yds last Oct. Got easy complete pass through and it disintegrated the heart. Plus, it's a sweet and pleasant rifle to shoot. Like it so much, the .45 will be my early season gun. The .50 and .54 will be my late season rifles for late season when shots may be a little longer with all the leaves off the trees and all. I will be building another .45 as soon as I get a couple other projects done 1st, Really fell in love with that caliber. If I had to settle on just one though, it'd be a .50 cal. Good all around caliber for deer and also the easiest to find accessories for. If I thought I was going to hunt bear or larger game, (like elk) I'd go for the .54 cal. Not much of an answer, just some info for consideration.

[bob208]

I don't know how this bigger is better got started. I guess the bigger ball covers up bad shooting somewhat. a .45 prb with 65 gr of 3f will shoot through both lungs of a der at 100 yd. now look at the other loads and compare the amount of powder and lead you will use. you will get more shooting with the .45 more shooting means better shooting. I did kill a bison with a .50prb from my lyman great plains rifle.


I would even give use my .40 for deer but my state has a .45 min.

[Lead pot]

I have had calibers from .44 to .58. They all shot great. Like RFD said, "it depends on your requirements".
Over the years I sold all the rifles under the .50. My #1 choice is the .58 slow twist round ball bore. It is good for punching holes through paper but also hide. It will anchor a deer in it's spot and it's not just limited under 100 yards. Shoot the rifle, learn the rifle and it will do the job you ask it to do.

[rfd]

if yer in the trad ml game long enuf, each of us will eventually figure out what works best, which drives down to what guns stay and what go. for me that means all i'm left with is a custom hawken style .50 rifle flintlock and a custom southern trade gun .62 smoothbore. each one for specific tasks i require. 'nuff said.

added: 3f for both tube and pan!

[Standing Bear]

All I have now is .40 and .54 flinters. No need for anything in between. FFg in the barrel of both and 4F or 7F in the pan.
TC

[waksupi]

Big holes bleed better.

[quilbilly]

By far my favorite deer hunting caliber in fair weather and shorter ranges (under 75 yards) has become the 45 with PRB. I have two at the moment. Many deer have fallen right over or even somersaulted when hit so it is more than adequate. I have several 50's for when the ranges are over 80 yards and a stainless 50 when the monsoons arrive in the fall. My 45's ( a T/C Cherokee and T/c Seneca) are so much lighter weight than the 50's that they are a joy to carry all day.

[rfd]

Big holes bleed better.

absolutely. a patched .600" 325 grain ball is devastating on bone and flesh.

[Good Cheer]

For shooting I like them all, but for hunting I like bigger than enough.
I got charged by a fast moving armored beast one time and let me tell you, those armadillos are scary.

[sharps4590]

If you're looking at an early Lancaster they were of larger bore than the later ones. 54 would be fine in that rifle.

Any of the calibers you mentioned will work fine. I've taken deer with all three and can't complain about the performance of any. It depends a lot more on the caliber of the guy behind the rifle than the caliber of the rifle.

[OnHoPr]

Big holes bleed better.


Short and to the point waksupi as usual. No thesis info from you anymore, huh. Or, has your typing fingers got sore. Or, have you been at this forum stuff for a long time with maybe just a few heated debates on tactics, equipment, and more broad based issues? You mention a little more in depth info once in a while though. It must be just the general consensus of where you live, "a quaint little drinking village,with a severe hunting and fishing problem." getting into your retirement years.lol

[509thsfs]

My early Lanc is a .54. Nice rifle. Taken a number of deer with it and it's a bambi thumper for sure. My two builds were Bedfords in .45 and 50 cal. The .45 is a sweet handling/shooting rifle. I can see that being my favorite cal/rifle for deer in the future. But, like I said earlier, I have a couple more builds planned before I get to building another in .45 caliber. Parts for the SW PA .36 cal build started coming in last Friday. Planned on doing a Haines in .54 after that, but that 2nd Bedford in .45 is calling me.

[archeryrob]

Wow, lots of opinions, but I was hoping for some factual responses on if one caliber had better ballistic qualities. I have myself read that the 45 carried better and had less drop than the 50 and 54.

The TOW build I was looking at has the 45 and 50 in 56 and 66 twists. I was considering the 56 twist, but not set on it, and could shoot Lee Real's or PRB's out of it. I'd probably buy the 200 and 250 grain molds and shoot the heaver one if the lighter one doesn't shoot better. It also has the option of 50 or 54 cal in 56 and 66 twists also.

So any thoughts or opinions on best caliber for trajectory? The place I hunt is pretty thick some places and I'm tending toward heavy bullet, but I got some fields I could drop a 150 yard shot too.

[rfd]

Wow, lots of opinions, but I was hoping for some factual responses on if one caliber had better ballistic qualities. I have myself read that the 45 carried better and had less drop than the 50 and 54.

The TOW build I was looking at has the 45 and 50 in 56 and 66 twists. I was considering the 56 twist, but not set on it, and could shoot Lee Real's or PRB's out of it. I'd probably buy the 200 and 250 grain molds and shoot the heaver one if the lighter one doesn't shoot better. It also has the option of 50 or 54 cal in 56 and 66 twists also.

So any thoughts or opinions on best caliber for trajectory? The place I hunt is pretty thick some places and I'm tending toward heavy bullet, but I got some fields I could drop a 150 yard shot too.

reach out to 150 yards and kill what with what kinda .45 .50 or .54 projectile? trad ml's work best with a specific rifling twist rate for specific projectile types. there can be compromises to both, but that will generally limit effectiveness one way or t'other.

i think you need to do a lot more thinking about what you expect the gun to do for you, and then continue yer research.

[rodwha]

In regards to shooting PRB at longer distances there's is also the BC of the ball effecting wind drift. The larger calibers do better.

Running my .50 cal with a .490" ball with a zero set at 100 yds it is more than good to 125 yds as far as trajectory. However with just a 10 mph crosswind it's pushed over quite a bit. Not being nearly as good a judge at wind speed as with distance I'd not shoot that far if there was a fair breeze.

If I were planning on shooting just PRB I'd likely opt for the .54. Were I shooting bullets/conicals I'd opt for the .45. Shooting both? Maybe a .50 is a good compromise?

When I was looking to buy my first rifle, but not really knowing enough about them, I went with a .50. My choice was in part because there's so much more available for it, and I thought traditional projectiles weren't that good and that I'd be using sabots. But knowing what I do now I know a ball is exceptional for medium game and if I ever get a chance at large game a full bore conical would work handily.

[rfd]

In regards to shooting PRB at longer distances there's is also the BC of the ball effecting wind drift. The larger calibers do better.

Running my .50 cal with a .490" ball with a zero set at 100 yds it is more than good to 125 yds as far as trajectory. However with just a 10 mph crosswind it's pushed over quite a bit. Not being nearly as good a judge at wind speed as with distance I'd not shoot that far if there was a fair breeze.

If I were planning on shooting just PRB I'd likely opt for the .54. Were I shooting bullets/conicals I'd opt for the .45. Shooting both? Maybe a .50 is a good compromise?

When I was looking to buy my first rifle, but not really knowing enough about them, I went with a .50. My choice was in part because there's so much more available for it, and I thought traditional projectiles weren't that good and that I'd be using sabots. But knowing what I do now I know a ball is exceptional for medium game and if I ever get a chance at large game a full bore conical would work handily.

+1 ... good advice for the OP. personally, trying to get one gun/caliber to "do it all" don't really happen much in the real world. why we have more than one gun.

[44man]

I have taken hundreds of deer with a .45 flinter, works all the time. But so does a .50 and my .54 Hawken just slams deer to the ground. I call it just preference. I see nothing wrong with any.
I have used only RB's forever. I did use a Maxi in the .50 for a while and have nothing bad to say.
I don't want an inline, costs money to shoot and hard to load the second shot.

[mooman76]

If we had more information/details to start with you might have recieved better replys. If you are thinking of a shot over 100y for deer you want the 54. The 45 will loose it's punch on deer past 100y an be kind of iffy.

[OnHoPr]

If you look or see any of my post from the last 5 years you will see that I praise the PRB. It is a remarkable killing projectile. In fact of the last 15 deer or so that I have shot with 30-30, 300 WM, and different projectiles in a Encore 50x209 the only one that drop at the shot was with a PBR. But, it has the same problems as the foster style slugs, WINDAGE, if there is a 10 mph fall breeze then both of those get blown around a LOT pass 60 yds. They are great if you are watching you feed pile, a couple of runways, or a brushy travel transition zone. But, if you tend to do a little moseying at mid day or if the deer change their patterns and you need to watch a couple of hardwood gullies coming out of the swamp that may provide long 100 yd shots then the conical would give you a bit better BC to fight the wind. There is where the consideration of twist comes in from a lot of perspectives. The slower twist are supposedly thought for the PRB and shorter style conicals like the light weight Lees, but a heavier longer 45 cal conical will give you better BC to fight the wind and a lot of penetration. Do they make 1 in 36 in the 45?

You can get a PRB to shoot in a faster twist and loading a 2nd shot in an inline is no problem.

[archeryrob]

Thanks for the replies. Now I'm leaning toward staying with the 50 again and just deciding on a 56 or 66 twist. I got the Lee Real molds in 50 cal for 320 and 250 grain. I have already made the 320's and just waiting for hunting season to finish before blasting up the farm as a target range. I don't want to stir the deer up more than they already are.

From what I have read the slower twists work better with smaller conicals, such as the 250 and higher rates like my 1:48 Hawken like the larger, such as the 320, correct? If so, would the 250 grain do better in the 56 or 66 twist? Obviously only the range will tell, but I'm looking for your observations. If I got a 66 and only PRB works good, I'd go back to just killing them with it. The 66 is listed a match quality barrel, so must be a better barrel.

[rfd]

... From what I have read the slower twists work better with smaller conicals, such as the 250 and higher rates like my 1:48 Hawken like the larger, such as the 320, correct? If so, would the 250 grain do better in the 56 or 66 twist? Obviously only the range will tell, but I'm looking for your observations. If I got a 66 and only PRB works good, I'd go back to just killing them with it. The 66 is listed a match quality barrel, so must be a better barrel.

i had purty good hawken style flinter .50 1:48 twist accuracy to 75 yards with both weights of REALs. with a 1:60 twist .50 neither REALs worked as well for me in a jack garner classic colonial flinter. it's all educated guess work, then trial and error/success. personally, i prefer patched balls and i think that at least for me they're as accurate as bullets, if not more accurate to 100 yards or so. that you wanna reach out to 150 yards and expect a gun to work well for both balls and bullets might be fantasy compromise.

i'll add food for thought - the early plains flintlocks were mostly .54 and up, and they killed big critters out past 200 yards with patched balls (or so is reported from back in the day). if i only needed a north american hunting trad ml rifle that could do it all, hard to beat a good slow twist .54 flintlock.

[charlie b]

I agree with above, with the additional caution about longer range shots. Look at a ballistics table for round balls. Once you get past 150yd range estimation is critical. If you can't accurately judge distances then you will be limited in range.

The short REAL or other conicals really won't change it that much either since they have lousy aerodynamics. You don't get better ballistic coefficients until you get to bigger conicals, which won't shoot well without a faster twist barrel.

When I had a slow twist barrel rifle (.45 KY) it did not like anything but PRB. I could shoot the short REAL's but they were not as accurate as round ball. And the bullets needed to be loaded hot to work at all.

[Themoose]

If you are not dead set on traditional Flintlock ,look at RMC Accusporter Flintlock made here in PA. I have one in .50 with laminated stock, L& R lock with Green Mtn fast twist barrel. I shoot paperpatched 460 gr Conicals.I could shoot more accurate if had better sights than fiber optics provided. But was able to keep in 6" circle @ 100yds. I do shoot paperpatched Conicals in 45 & 50 with inlines and 45 400 gr is most accurate and That's hammer on deer

[54bore]

big holes bleed better.

very true!!

[509thsfs]

Wow, lots of opinions, but I was hoping for some factual responses on if one caliber had better ballistic qualities. I have myself read that the 45 carried better and had less drop than the 50 and 54.

The TOW build I was looking at has the 45 and 50 in 56 and 66 twists. I was considering the 56 twist, but not set on it, and could shoot Lee Real's or PRB's out of it. I'd probably buy the 200 and 250 grain molds and shoot the heaver one if the lighter one doesn't shoot better. It also has the option of 50 or 54 cal in 56 and 66 twists also.

So any thoughts or opinions on best caliber for trajectory? The place I hunt is pretty thick some places and I'm tending toward heavy bullet, but I got some fields I could drop a 150 yard shot too.

If you are looking at the TOW barrels with 1-56 twist, those are probably Colerain barrels (which are what mine are). I've never tried conicals in them (no desire to, just my preference), but they have very deep rifling. You even have to use thicker patches than normal. I'm not sure if unpatched conicals would work. Thinking they would not fill the grooves. Just a guess on my part.

[Lead pot]

My .58 Hawken I used a 70 twist and it shoots a round ball and the 3 ring mini very good. It will swing a hanging bowling very well at 200 yards using the RB or Mini
My flint southern Mountain is a .54 with a 1/66 ROT. I just shoot the round balls with it and I have no problem hitting a sheet of printer paper @ 200 yards using cross sticks. I don't know if a faster twist has any benefits shooting round balls or not. I see a lot of stuff on the forums that a mini wont shoot well in the slow twists, I don't find this going on with the 1/70 rot. If I had a smooth rifle I would use a mini in it for a ball heavier then a round ball if I felt I needed it.

[Standing Bear]

You MUST include depth of rifling in a discussion of conicals and twist. Good round ball rifling is .010-.012" or greater deep. Some like Rice round bottom is .016" deep. If u run a bare lubed REAL or Maxi style down a bore w .012" grooves there WILL BE BLOW BY. Over powder wads will help but performance won't equal that of a .004" groove barrel (and all other components remain the same). Most Original barrels of .50 caliber that had 48 twist had groove depths .010-.012".

If u have a RB barrel shoot RBs. Don't try to make it something it isn't. If u don't like to shoot RBs sell it and get a bullet gun. If u r getting a different gun and want to shoot bullets get one w 48 twist or what ever and shallow grooves.
Tc

[waarp8nt]

Specs...I can give you a .58 caliber 400 grain hollow base Ohaus boolit running at 1200 fps will punch a hole clean through both sides of a young buck at 35 to 40 yards. I have yet to test all of my rifles potential over a chronograph and this year sure hasn't been much of a season here in Illinios.

[Lead pot]

Here is a 235# field dressed 2.5 year old corn fed NW ILL. buck that fell to my .58 Hawken that passed through at 168 down hill paces.
This rifle I used a GM barrel.
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/DSC00003.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/DSC00003.jpg.html)

I had 5 Does in my back yard this evening under the Pear tree :)

[shoot-n-lead]

Here is a 235# field dressed 2.5 year old corn fed NW ILL. buck that fell to my .58 Hawken that passed through at 168 down hill paces.
This rifle I used a GM barrel.
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/DSC00003.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/DSC00003.jpg.html)

I had 5 Does in my back yard this evening under the Pear tree :)

Nice one!

I love that dark color.

[rodwha]

A .490" ball has a BC of 0.069. A 320 grn REAL has a BC of 0.189 (according to IdahoRon's chronograph testing) and the 250 grn REAL has about 0.148 (according to a formula a fella on another forum used when a known BC and design are used).

[OverMax]

Just saying.
Average Marksman w/ iron sights. Suggested caliber>54. __ __(Definition average: those prone to a quickened heart beat & teased often for catching Buck Fever more than once)

Master Marksman w/ iron sights. Suggested caliber>45. __ __(Definition master: Heart beat no longer quickens. i.e. A Stone cold killer.)

Sharp Shooter w/ iron sights. Suggested caliber: What ever he/she desires. __ __(Definition sharp: Has more than his fair share of trophy Bucks mounted on the walls in (his) Man Cave.

Experienced Sharp Shooter. Suggested caliber: Retired. No longer hunts. __ __(Definition experienced: Reminisces allot. Camp entertainer & story teller. A old seasoned hunter/shooter who has defiantly >"seen it all, heard it all, done it all, Just can't remember it all"

[archeryrob]

By your post I assume I am a 50 caliber. The heart quickens but settles down quickly back to reasonable thought.

[DanWalker]

There are those who get great results with 3f in guns like the .577 Enfields and Minie bullets and I know some who much favor it shooting the .54 Great Plains Rifle behind a patched round ball.

I had the use of a .50 GPR that worked pretty good on the goat sized whitetail we have around here, but there was nothing it could do the .54 wouldn't do a smidge better with a PRB. I recently acquired a TC Hawken in .45 to teach my grandchildren muzzleloading basics off the bench. I have to say it is a thoroughly pleasant plinker when loaded down to 40 gr or so w/ PRB. They have only been to the range once with it but if they continue to enjoy it a Cherokee or Seneca might be in the future.

There is also something attractive to me in rifles like the Parker Hale Volunteer in .451. I actually have a .45 cal fast twist barrel (1:30) on the way that will go in a Renegade stock. Way cheaper than the Volunteer (though I love the looks of that rifle.).
You ever get the urge to step up to a larger caliber for them, I have a 50 caliber renegade I would trade you for that 45 hawken.

[Lead pot]

LOL, good post overmax :)

Well I'm not a trophy hunter, I'm a meat hunter. I'm retired and over 3/4 century old and taking pills to slow my heart beat down and I like the .54 and use the .58 to fill the freezer. And I have a left hand .50 TC Renegade and I'm right handed and I haven't shot it for around 40 years Where do I fit in :)

Kurt

[OverMax]

Where do I fit in you don't !!

Like you we both are oh so obviously~~ >Special.<

Just saying:
I do have a 45 cal T/C hawken that has its Rd Ball Only barrel usually mounted. And a spare Green Mtn LRH barrel for the same rifle. A stainless steel quicky twist (1-28) barrel that to date has spent most of its life span closeted here. Honestly fellers. I find my little Patched Ball shoot'in rifle more challenging to hunt and target shoot with than all the others I have. (50-54-58)
I've read here and else where's some fellers prefer to have their side lock rifle/s capable of shooting 3-400 yards. Not me. Common sense tells me such long distances with such a antiquated weapons design the rifles shooter is likely to be a better Tracker than a Top Shot.___ But ~~~"too each their own."

[Lead pot]

:-D Thank you :-D

At one time I put masking tape on the top flat of the barrel and put a 5 gallon bucket out in the plowed field when they still plowed the fields LOL and past 100 paces I shot and watched the dust kick up till I hit the bucket and I took the ink pen and put a line where the rear sight was held below the front blade with the blade on the bucket and every 50 paces I did this till I backed up to the fence short of 600 yards. Surprising how well this works if you want to hit a bucket that far out :)

[DanWalker]

:-D Thank you :-D

At one time I put masking tape on the top flat of the barrel and put a 5 gallon bucket out in the plowed field when they still plowed the fields LOL and past 100 paces I shot and watched the dust kick up till I hit the bucket and I took the ink pen and put a line where the rear sight was held below the front blade with the blade on the bucket and every 50 paces I did this till I backed up to the fence short of 600 yards. Surprising how well this works if you want to hit a bucket that far out :)
Works the same way with handguns.

[rodwha]

you don't !!

Like you we both are oh so obviously~~ >Special.<

Just saying:
I do have a 45 cal T/C hawken that has its Rd Ball Only barrel usually mounted. And a spare Green Mtn LRH barrel for the same rifle. A stainless steel quicky twist (1-28) barrel that to date has spent most of its life span closeted here. Honestly fellers. I find my little Patched Ball shoot'in rifle more challenging to hunt and target shoot with than all the others I have. (50-54-58)
I've read here and else where's some fellers prefer to have their side lock rifle/s capable of shooting 3-400 yards. Not me. Common sense tells me such long distances with such a antiquated weapons design the rifles shooter is likely to be a better Tracker than a Top Shot.___ But ~~~"too each their own."

And on some various traditional forums I've been damn near blacklisted for trying for 200 yds for shooting across fields and such... That to me is plenty for a sidelock muzzleloader.

What I have now is working for a .50 cal PRB after I found it does so much better than numbers may tell for these days.

[quilbilly]

My wife just got her buck yesterday with the 45 Cherokee and PRB. I watched and it was dead before it hit the ground. Range - 50 yards.

[OverMax]

Little 126 gr patched Rd ball strikes its quarry again._ "Way to go Mrs!! "

Congratulations too both quilbilly's.

[Hanshi]

The .45 is my favorite caliber and I own three. I've yet to find anything I can't do with a .45 prb. I've taken more deer with .45s than any other caliber.

[Lead pot]

And on some various traditional forums I've been damn near blacklisted for trying for 200 yds for shooting across fields and such... That to me is plenty for a sidelock muzzleloader.

What I have now is working for a .50 cal PRB after I found it does so much better than numbers may tell for these days.

If you think shooting long range with a M/L will get you blackballed just go to a trap shoot with black powder loads once. It only takes two shots and your off the line :)

[Texas by God]

Well, I like the .54 round ball best. Probably because the gun is a bit lighter with that big hole in the barrel. Or the way it knocks the stuffing out of stuff. I'm a fair weather black powder guy but I have had and used .45 to .54 and as I said it's the .54 for me. Best, Thomas.

[Hanshi]

As far as the caliber recommended - .54, .58, etc, - for those who have a problem placing their shot in the right spot, If one cannot shoot game with accuracy, one should stay out of the woods. A big bullet never makes up for sloppy shooting.

[quilbilly]

Wow, lots of opinions, but I was hoping for some factual responses on if one caliber had better ballistic qualities. I have myself read that the 45 carried better and had less drop than the 50 and 54.

The TOW build I was looking at has the 45 and 50 in 56 and 66 twists. I was considering the 56 twist, but not set on it, and could shoot Lee Real's or PRB's out of it. I'd probably buy the 200 and 250 grain molds and shoot the heaver one if the lighter one doesn't shoot better. It also has the option of 50 or 54 cal in 56 and 66 twists also.

So any thoughts or opinions on best caliber for trajectory? The place I hunt is pretty thick some places and I'm tending toward heavy bullet, but I got some fields I could drop a 150 yard shot too.
One suggestion I would make would to take a look at the regulations for restrictions. I don't know how old your eyes are but if you are required to use iron sights only, you will be limited by the range you can still get a decent sight picture. For me that is roughly 125 yards for smaller deer. Any of the above caliber patched round balls will do just fine at that range. If you are allowed to use scopes, your range can be extended but I would suggest you tend toward conicals of some kind with or without sabot just to make the trajectory simpler to calculate. As for twist rates, 1/66 down to 1/48 work well with PRB. 1/48 can work well as a hybrid with both PRB and conicals depending on the rifle. As for one caliber PRB being better than another, I haven't suffered any losses in a couple decades with either 45, 50, or 58 PRB's but the recoil of my 45 sidelocks with PRB is so light and the rifles are so light weight plus graceful, they are just a joy to carry and shoot. There don't appear to be any degrees of dead.

[Lonegun1894]

My personal preference is a .54, with a .50 being a very close second, but that is mostly due to the way the .54 version of the same gun feels as opposed to the .50. I have zero experience with a .45 muzzleloader, so can't help there, but can't see it making any difference whatsoever for the average deer or hog regardless of if shot with a .45/.50/.54 if the range is kept to the limitations of the caliber. Now, as has been mentioned, the bigger and heavier a RB is, the better it does at range, IF pushed to the same velocity, but lets face it, my .32 can develop much faster velocities than my .710" can, and still remain comfortable to shoot from a recoil standpoint. So you really have to decide what game you're trying to shoot and out to what ranges. To me, the .54 is the perfect balance of gun weight, with RB weight, with velocity, for my local deer and hogs, but to be honest, my .50 does just as well, but just doesn't balance as well.

[jjarrell]

With round balls the .54 will perform best of the 3. The bigger, heavier ball carries momentum better than the .45 or .50. That being said all 3 calibers will ruin a deers day with a quickness. Don't let anyone tell you that a .45 caliber rifle is lacking in any way on deer size game. It simply comes down to what you have your heart set on. As for 3F powder..........I use it in everything from my .36 to my .54 with excellent results. Its accurate, fouling seems to be less than 1 1/2 or 2F, and it takes less powder to reach 2F velocities. Each rifle is different though. Some guns wont shoot 3F worth a hoot.

[JHeath]

I've read that ballistically the .54 is optimal for round ball, that the bore size is most efficient given the properties of BP and given the relative mas: diameter of the projectile.

I just finished reading Alexander Ross's account of his fur trade expeditions. He wrote:

"In observing the effect produced by guns of different calibres, it was found that the rifles of small bore taking from 60 to 70 balls to the pound very frequently did not kill, although they might hit: while rifles taking from 30 to 40 to the pound seldom missed killing. The former out of twenty shots seldom kills more than seven or eight animals, whereas the latter, of twenty shots fired fifteen are generally deadly. It was therefore settled that the rifles of larger caliber should be used in all places where animals proved scarce."

[JHeath]

Here's a gauge to caliber conversion chart. He basically recommended .48 to .54 cal. http://www.cherrytreefamily.com/gaugetocaliber.htm

[Good Cheer]

.47 or .48 would be a nice one to have. I've been wondering when somebody would stir up a barrel to shoot round ball and the Lee plain base .476-400-RF. There's that old Ideal .465 ball mold in the toy box but I've resisted so far.
:rolleyes: