Charlie Darnall's Gas Check Tool Sets

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

I now have three of Charlie Darnall's gas check tool sets (.30, .38, & .45 calibers), and they make great gas checks from soda can material. I and a few others have used single layers of aluminum for all three calibers mentioned, and seem to get the same results as when using the old Lyman or Hornady copper gas checks. I know Charlie only sells them on E-Bay, but I as well as some other members on this forum can tell you that he makes a good product and is a gentleman to work with.

There has been one member here who seems to take delight in taking cheap shots at Charlie Darnall over and over again. That person repeatedly rags on Charlie for selling on E-Bay and seems to delight in ragging on him for attempting to patent his tool. I know nothing about patent law, but if Charlie Darnall wants to patent his tool, that is up to the US Patent Office to determine if his efforts meet their requirements. All I know is that I have bought three tool sets for less than $45 each from Charlie Darnall on E-Bay, and they are a good product and well worth the cost.

I simply cannot understand why one person feels so compelled to go out of his way to repeatedly bust up on someone who makes a good product and sells it to us at a very good price. It just is not dignified to rag on someone that way. I have also read posts from quite a few members here who have purchased Charlie's tool sets and reported good results with them. Most of these folks have also reported that Charlie has been quite helpful in working with them.

At this date, Charlie does not have any tool sets listed on E-Bay, but he will be putting more up for bid in the weeks to come. I would advise anyone who wants to make his own gas checks to keep an eye out for Charlie's tool sets. They are a good product.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[skeptic]

What is Charlies' username her on CB. I'd like to inquire about his tool.

Thanks

[Meatco1]

I think it is "codarnall" on eBay.

Richard

[porkchop bob]

I think it is "codarnall" on eBay.

Richard

I just got one of Charlie's 7mm GC tool. Item is at the below link. You can follow it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230251100293.

Bob

[JeffinNZ]

Hey folks,

There has been one member here who seems to take delight in taking cheap shots at Charlie Darnall over and over again. That person repeatedly rags on Charlie for selling on E-Bay and seems to delight in ragging on him for attempting to patent his tool. I know nothing about patent law, but if Charlie Darnall wants to patent his tool, that is up to the US Patent Office to determine if his efforts meet their requirements. All I know is that I have bought three tool sets for less than $45 each from Charlie Darnall on E-Bay, and they are a good product and well worth the cost.

I simply cannot understand why one person feels so compelled to go out of his way to repeatedly bust up on someone who makes a good product and sells it to us at a very good price. It just is not dignified to rag on someone that way. I have also read posts from quite a few members here who have purchased Charlie's tool sets and reported good results with them. Most of these folks have also reported that Charlie has been quite helpful in working with them.



It's called the tall poppy syndrome. Some folk can't hack others doing something as well or better than them.

I just got my FreeChex maker from Charlie and it is simple, effective, good value for money. I highly recommend.

[docone31]

Tall Poppy Syndrome! I like that one.
Now that I know of such tools to make checks, as soon as I can I plan on ordering one.
Even more so as Charlie is one of us.
Keep it home, keep it simple.

[crabo]

David or others that have the tool, could you keep track of the number of gas checks you make with each tool? I am interested in the longevity of the product. Does it still keep making god checks after so many thousands? Does the tool keep working well, or does it need to be replaced, or parts of it replaced after a while.

I have ordered my first gc mold and after I used up the 1000 checks I have, I will need to make some or buy some gas checks.

Thanks,

Crabo

[jhrosier]

Crabo,
The mandrel and anvil are heat treated tool steel, they should last forever, if not misused.
I would imagine that the punch to cut disks will require occasional sharpening.

Jack

[Boerrancher]

A while back I had problems with Charlie as he didn't seem to want to answer any of my technical questions. As time went on and more and more members were posting about how good his tools worked I bought a 7mm set. It was amazing at the questions he ask me to make sure that everything was made to fit my boolit and bore. The auction closed early sunday morning, but I wanted the tool and I was not going to be out bid with my max bid. I think Charlie Realized this and shipped the tool to me even before the auction ended, because it arrived Tue morning. There is no way that he could have shipped it out on Monday. On monday I get an email from Charlie worrying about the thickness of the material I am going to be making my checks from.

In the past I was critical of Charlie as he was not good about answering my technical questions. I can after using his tool and the email conversations that I have had with him, he is a strait shooter, and has seemed to have learned people skills. He sells a good product. I don't have and have never complained about his product, just his people skills, and those have improved 100 fold.

I will buy more of his tools as the need arises.

Best Wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

If I may add to Jack's response to Crabo, Charlie told me that the punches will require sharpening more often on copper sheet than they will on aluminum. Also, Charlie clearly states that he furnishes cheap Chinese punches in his tool sets, but they are fine for use on aluminum cans. He also says that if you want to punch copper disks, you should buy a better quality punch, and he recommends the General brand as a reasonably priced good punch. The last tool set he sold me came with a General punch even though it was supposed to come with a Chinese one. I figure I can afford to pay Charlie for the General punch, but he still has not told me how much the difference in price would be. He really is a straight shooter, and I intend to pay him what it cost him.

So far, I have only punched aluminum disks, so I have not had any problems with my punches getting dull. I have been using a marble block about three inches thick with a quarter inch hard rubber pad on top for punching disks as well as drawing the gas checks in the tool. I have used the marble block and rubber pad for doing leather carving work for a good many years, and now they seem to work fine in my lap while watching TV.

I think some of you are using two thicknesses of aluminum disks and some are using copper for their disks. For those folks, would you mind telling of your experience and whether you had any success with just one aluminum disk. I have only tried one thickness of aluminum for my three calibers, and all seem to give the same results as my old copper gas checks. If any of you have different results, it would be nice to hear what they are.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[Boerrancher]

Dave,

I use a double thickness Arizona Ice Tea can to form my checks out of. There is a reason. Most of your standard aluminum cans are either 0.004 or 0.005 in thickness, the Arizona Ice Tea Can is 0.006 in thickness. I need a gas check 0.012 in thickness for it to shoot well in my 30-30 with out leading. You can calculate the minimum thickness of material you need by doing the following. I will use my 30-30 as the example:

Grove dia of the bore: 0.309
Dia of Shank on Boolit: 0.287

Bore dia - shank dia = space needed to be filled by the gas check

0.309-0.287=0.022

Divide the space needed to be filled by 2 to get the thickness of the disk needed.

0.022/2=0.011

With the minimum thickness to fill the bore being 0.011, I like to go a hair bit larger to ensure a proper seal so I double up on the .006 material, which when finished as a check gives me a 0.311 dia gas check.

I can't get a good seal with one layer. I am sure if I reduce my load and used pistol powder one layer would do fine. But.... I like to try and shoot my cast boolits at or near the same velocity as I do my jacketed bullets in my 30-30, and since most leading is caused by gases blowing past the base of the boolit and eroding the sides of the boolit, a good tight gas check helps prevent that.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch

Joe

[randyrat]

How about someone invite him here on this site. He could sell a ton of them with out any fees,straight shooters,ect... He already has a good reputation. Not everybody here goes to that One ......ay site..

[MT Gianni]

How about someone invite him here on this site. He could sell a ton of them with out any fees,straight shooters,ect... He already has a good reputation. Not everybody here goes to that One ......ay site..

He has posted here and been offered that. He prefers e-bay. Gianni

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

Joe: Thanks for your detailed description. I have one .30 caliber rifle that I could never get good results with my regular .30 caliber cast bullet. I thnk I will follow your method and see if a change in gas check might give different results.

Randy Rat: "How about someone invite him here on this site. He could sell a ton of them with out any fees,straight shooters,ect..." If you do a search on making gas checks, you will see he had been a member on this forum some time ago. You will also see some of the negative crap he received from a few of the folks here. A number of folks criticized him for selling on E-Bay and tried to get him to sell directly, and one of the folks here sent Charlie a contract where Charlie would sell to him (instead of E-Bay), and the fellow here would then sell Charlie's tool sets to the folks here, but at a much higher price. After Charlie refused the contract, one fellow in particular really started to rag on Charlie repeatedly on this forum. At that point, Charlie asked the forum to remove him from the membership and remove all his posts.

What can I say? Charlie prefers to sell his product on E-Bay, and who am I or anyone else to tell him how he should do his business? As I and a number of other folks here have said, Charlie Darnall is a fair and square guy, and his gas check tool sets are made well and work well. If you want to buy one, you just have to buy it on E-Bay. It really is not like he is overcharging for them. I just read a post on this forum yesterday where one of the members here bought a tool set for less than $39, and that included $4.65 for shipping.

Some folks dont like E-Bay, some folks don't like Wal-Mart, and other folks don't like other places for whatever reasons. All I can say is if you want to try a good gas check making tool at a heck of a good price, you will have to buy it on E-Bay. In the past week or so, he sold several tools at "Buy It Now" prices that proved to be less than what the winning bids were on other tool sets he was selling. He also sold a couple of "Buy It Now" sets where you could specify what caliber you wanted between .250 and .500 - all less than $40 including shipping. That sure seems like a pretty good deal to me.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[quasi]

I bought one of his tools for .45 gas checks, it works great!

[JeffinNZ]

I bought one of his tools for .45 gas checks, it works great!

I concur.

Actually last evening I honed my forming die from .311 to .314 to drop the checks a little closer to spec for the .303 Brits. Works great. Off to the range with MyChex soon.

[randyrat]

David W, Thanks for the history. I missed that. I'll stay out of that fight, i still have all my teeth.

[kodiak1]

Could any of you old boys post a pic or two of the tools and the checks or it even in action?
Got me bothered to see it now.
Thanks Ken.

[David Wile]

Hey Ken,

I don't know how to post pictures, but Bob provided a link to the E-Bay page where he bought one of the tools. I will try to repeat the link as follows:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230251100293

I never know how to do this stuff, so if my attempt to provide the link does not work, go up to Bob's post #4 and click on it. Once you get the E-Bay page, go down to where there are two pictures and click on the seconc picture. In that picture, there are ten anvil/mandrel sets lined up along the left edge of what appears to be a dresser. Behind the tool sets are about four punches. A tool set consists of a punch to make the aluminum disk, and a hardened die (also called the anvil) and a hardened mandrel. The punches are fairly standard and should not require any mention other than Charlie sharpens and heat treats them. The ten die and mandrel sets in the picture can be seen with the mandrels seated in the larger dies which sit on the dresser.

Once you cut your aluminum disks with your punch, you place a disk in the die or anvil and push it down to seat on the bottom. Then you insert the mandrel into the die/anvil and seat it on the disk. A light rap or two with a leather or plastic mallet will drive the mandrel and aluminum dick into the smaller part of the die that forms the gas check. The gas check then falls out of the bottom of the die.

Considering the die and the mandrel are hardened steel, I would not think you would want to bang them together too hard for fear of breaking one. I use a plastic mallet and all it takes is a fairly light rap on the mandrel to form the check. I think you would have to make a really big mistake to break the die or the mandrel.

I hope this gives you a better idea how the tool set works. As I said, I am no hand at posting pictures.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[PatMarlin]

Well now I just happened on this thread.

I assume Dave Wile, you are referring to me as the culprit in your description of taking cheap shots and "ragging" on the eBay guy. If you have something to say, say it and direct it towards me. Don't beat around the bush.. :roll:

It's great that you believe so much in his Freechex* (tm) you are willing to post the words here that you have, but you need to do some reading and get your own facts straight instead of firing away BS on our forum.

He was offered a considerable amount of help here at Cast Boolits at no charge to launch his product. He flat out refused mine and the owners here, and was rude IMO to our members by his actions, and basically telling us all to get bent. I have posted facts- referring to what he has claimed, posted on the net and in his eBay ads, and what he has done here.

It seems now since we are coming out with our own tool, and the obvious interest it's developed, he wants to save face through you as his spokesman, and try to come back in. Could it be he now realizes he screwed up?

Personally, I think this thing with the eBay guy here is comical- kinda like the guy who compulsively sticks his foot in his own mouth, and I really could care less about him and you for that matter, and do not have the time to bicker. Our valuable time is being spent developing a tool and die set that we hope will be the best available for the money period.

Our cast boolit brethren here will decide on where they choose to spend their hard earned money... :drinks:

[PatMarlin]

I also would like to ad one more point...

Any person who tries to take credit for someone else's design and invention, and then blatantly sells it as such is wide open for comments on the subject... :roll:

This is the last word on the subject from me. Next you see will be our tool and die set.

[lordgroom]

Patmarlin

Can you give us more information on your GC tool including when it will be available, price, ease of use, and pictures?

[Scrounger]

Yeah, Pat. If you're going to participate in this gunfight, you need to put something in your holster...:kidding:

[JeffinNZ]

How about we stick to discussing what makes cast bullets 'tick' and keep the personal and political agendas for elsewhere.

I have no interest in anything on this subject other than if/how well the tool works and how it can assist me in minimising my costs.

[David Wile]

Mr. PatMarlin,

Actually, I said what I had to say, and I will stand by my words which were honest and not intended to cross swords with anyone. As far as the person I referred to as ragging on Charlie Darnall, all I can say is that if the shoe fits, wear it. I was not beating around the bush. I clearly stated that one person in particular seemed to be going out of his way to belittle Charlie Darnall and the product he was making. Folks were free to search the "Home Grown Gaschecks" thread and see for themselves the history on this matter.

Most folks who responded to this thread have indicated they have had a good customer experience with Charlie Darnall and have found his gas check making tool set to work quite well - and at a very good price.

I don't know anything about his refusing your help (unless you are the one who tried to get him to sign a contract selling his tool sets through you), but Charlie is obviously already selling a product that quite a number of folks right here on this forum have found to be of high quality and at a great price. I know you are trying to market a competing product, and if it ever becomes available, it may also be a worthwhile product. In the meantime, however, it simply does not become one to belittle the competition - especially when the competition already has a product available and quite a number of members here who have purchased it and given it a thumbs up. To suggest that he screwed up by not following your advice on making gas check tool sets just seems undignified at best.

I do not get the whole thing about Charlie Darnall saving face though me. I am not his spokesman; I am simply one of his satisfied customers who wanted to let other members of this forum know what kind of a product Charlie is producing and how it has worked for me. If you insist that I am a spokesman for Charlie Darnall's products, I guess that would also make spokesmen of all the other members who have responded positively on this thread about Charlie's product.

Again in your recent post you refer to him as the "eBay guy" who is "comical-kinda." I just do not understand your compulsion to belittle this man. He is not the "eBay guy." He is Charlie Darnall, a man who is making a good product for us at a good price. He also is not comical as you would have others believe. He is a gentleman, and he provides excellent customer service to everyone I have heard who has purchased a tool set from him. That sounds like a good sign to me.

You mentioned that your valuable time is being spent developing a tool set that will offer for sale here. I wish you good luck in your efforts and look forward to learning how it will work and what it will cost us. If it is a better tool set at a better price than Charlie is making, I am sure you will have lots of folks buying them - myself included.

In the meantime, I will continue to submit that Charlie Darnall is a good guy and that he is providing a good product for all of us. That is not a bad thing.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[badgeredd]

I don't have a dog in this fight but do wonder why Charlie doesn't offer his product on this forum for a fair, set price. Seems to me this would be an excellent venue to sell his product. If he wishes to sell on ebay too, or any other place, well it IS his product. Obviously he could set a price here like the $29.95 he starts the bidding at. This isn't intended to offend anyone, or to support anyone, just a simple question and observation.

[MtGun44]

No items for sale by codarnall on eBay. Anybody know if he has stopped
selling the gas check makers? I wanted to bid on one and can't find any
auctions.

Bill

[David Wile]

Hey Badgeredd,

I can't tell you why Charlie prefers to market his tool sets on E-Bay, but I simply look at it as that is his choice to make. I personally don't have a problem with it since I buy a lot of things on E-Bay. Perhaps he may think that he will reach a broader market on E-Bay. I would point out that he recently had a few auctions on E-Bay where he offered to sell a tool set as a "Buy It Now" for $33.95 plus $4.65 for shipping via USPS Priority Mail (no handling charges). These auctions also allowed the winning bidder to choose his caliber anywhere from .250 to .50. While one of these "Buy It Now" auctions was taken at $33.95, there was another auction where the bidders went up to $43 for the same tool set. In the last case, Charlie obviously made more on that one than he did with the "Buy It Now" auction, but I don't think anyone would complain that $43 was too much money for the tool set. So far, I think all of us who have bought his tool sets would have to admit that we got pretty good deals.

I know I wish I could just order a tool set from him via E-Mail at a fixed price, but the fact is that Charlie just does not want to sell them that way, and I do not feel that I have any obligation to tell him he is all wrong in his choice of marketing plans. If one simply cannot abide purchasing anything on E-Bay, then Charlie Darnall's tool set is not for you. On the other hand, if you have no problem with the E-Bay thing, then you are very likely to get a reasonable deal on one of his tool sets.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[David Wile]

Hey Bill,

I talked to Charlie four or five days ago, and he mentioned that he was planning a family visit for a week or two and that he would not be selling for a while. I suspect he will probably have something back on E-Bay in less than two weeks. My suggestion is to do one of those saved searches or whatever you call them on E-Bay and set to notify you by E-Mail. You can search for "gas check tool" or the name brand thing he uses which "Freechex" I think.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[badgeredd]

Hey Badgeredd,

I can't tell you why Charlie prefers to market his tool sets on E-Bay, but I simply look at it as that is his choice to make. I personally don't have a problem with it since I buy a lot of things on E-Bay. Perhaps he may think that he will reach a broader market on E-Bay. I would point out that he recently had a few auctions on E-Bay where he offered to sell a tool set as a "Buy It Now" for $33.95 plus $4.65 for shipping via USPS Priority Mail (no handling charges). These auctions also allowed the winning bidder to choose his caliber anywhere from .250 to .50. While one of these "Buy It Now" auctions was taken at $33.95, there was another auction where the bidders went up to $43 for the same tool set. In the last case, Charlie obviously made more on that one than he did with the "Buy It Now" auction, but I don't think anyone would complain that $43 was too much money for the tool set. So far, I think all of us who have bought his tool sets would have to admit that we got pretty good deals.

I know I wish I could just order a tool set from him via E-Mail at a fixed price, but the fact is that Charlie just does not want to sell them that way, and I do not feel that I have any obligation to tell him he is all wrong in his choice of marketing plans. If one simply cannot abide purchasing anything on E-Bay, then Charlie Darnall's tool set is not for you. On the other hand, if you have no problem with the E-Bay thing, then you are very likely to get a reasonable deal on one of his tool sets.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

Dave,
I wasn't aware that he had offered the set at a BIN price, but that still doesn't equate to selling at a set price to the forum members. I guess you know him better than I, so I'll defer to your opinion. Frankly I have no problem with getting items from Ebay but I was pointing out that he HAS to know there is a market here and for whatever reason he chooses not to take advantage of it. As for a broader market, yes Ebay will give him that, but his product is for a specialized buyer so again I wonder why he isn't here. His choice for sure, but it still makes no sense to me.

[David Wile]

Hey Badgeredd,

I only know Charlie from purchasing three tool sets from him and from talking to him on the telephone. I had never heard of him until I started searching the thread on "Home Grown Gas Checks."

As to why he choose to separate himself from this forum, a search of that thread (and others) will show that he was treated pretty shabbily, especially by one member in particular. Also, one member of our forum sent him a contract to sign whereby that member would be the exclusive selling agent for Charlie’s product to all members of this forum. I guess this one fellow wanted to buy the sets from Charlie for $40 and have the exclusive right to sell them to other forum members for $80. How this “offer” was good for the members of this forum is beyond me, but I suspect that when the offer was rejected by Charlie, that is when the nasty comments really started, and that is when Charlie removed himself from this forum. Seems like more of a loss to us than it was to Charlie.

I also suspect that the forum member who sent Charlie the contract was far more interested in representing his own interests than representing Charlie or the members of this forum.

That is my take on “...why he isn’t here.” Charlie may have left this forum, but he obviously supports quite a number of forum members who have purchased his tool sets, and from what some of those members have noted on this thread, he supports them with wholehearted zeal. Give his product a try when he puts them up on E-Bay again. I think you will be quite satisfied.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[PatMarlin]

David-

You damn well better not be directing any of your Bull Crap comments towards me.

If you want to come aboard this forum and continue to stir up a bunch of false bull ****e sent in my direction, be prepared for a battle sir.

[jhrosier]

PatMarlin,
There is simply no need for this sort of stuff.
Your reputation suffers more with every such post.

Jack

[PatMarlin]

PatMarlin,
There is simply no need for this sort of stuff.
Your reputation suffers more with every such post.

Jack


I simply don't think this is any of your business- Jack.

When someone makes vague and false accusations in my direction, I will speak my mind, period.

If you don't like it, move to another thread, or delete my postings in your ignore list.

My reputation can suffer all it wants.

[dromia]

OK Gentlemen enough's enough!

We should all be great full that there are people out there endeavouring to meet our needs.

Each will do so in their own way and we will make our choices based on their products and what appeals to us.

These forums are the place to discuss the merits of each product and what we find out about them in use, what this is not the place for is personal attacks, slights and range wars.

This thread has gone its course methinks so I'm locking it.