Bottom Pour Pot - Never Again!

[John Boy]

Was gifted an old bottom pour pot - so decided to use it to cast 320gr Ideal 37584 bullets. NEVER AGAIN:
* Large bullets need a 5 second pour - can't see when the sprue plate has a puddle - guessing flat sharp or rounded bases
* Melt spills off the plate and splatters on the pot base - on the floor - on the work bench and your clothes!
* Yep, the nozzle keeps dripping - stalagmite's form on the base of the pot
* Took me close to 35 or 40 bullets how the hold the mold under the spout. Finally figured - tilt the mold towards you - count to 5 - hope the hell the mold fills out the GG bands and no wrinkles on the nose
* Darn nozzle gets stuck in the sprue hole - increase the temperature of the melt in the pot to compensate for tne nozzle stuck in the sprue hole
* After the frustrations, cast 150 bullets ... 35 were outside my normal bell curve of 0.5 to 1gr variance. Back int the pot - fire it up and have to duplicate what I already had done
Never Again? Well maybe not ... might be faster pouring 140gr's of melt into a multi cavity mold for round balls - drizzling the melt. Will See. If not - it's Gone!

[Butchman205]

If it's an RCBS PRO MELT or an old Lyman...I'd love to give that red-headed stepchild a home!


-Butchman

[OS OK]

Have you tried to open the spout adjustment for higher volume delivery? If so and that didn't work, is it partially plugged?
Sounds like you are pressure pouring, have you tried to drop the mold away from the spout a fraction of a second before shutting the valve off...that gives a small puddle the cooling cast can draw from.
For larger size and for long casts I run my pot around 725-750* and preheat the mold on my hot plate to 350-400*.

just asking?

[WALLNUTT]

I can't use a dipper as I don't have enough hands. I've been casting 565g 45s, 410g 40s, and 330g 38s with a bottom pour. I don't cull more than 1-2 per hundred, sometimes none. It's just what you get used to. Practice Practice

[dragon813gt]

Either you don't have the spout adjusted open enough or it's partially clogged. Since it's dripping I'm assuming it's clogged. You need to place the pot where you can see the mold under it. This isn't a design flaw of the pot. It's on you to place it where you can see. Place the pot in some type of metal pan if you don't want hot lead getting all over the place.

There is a learning curve to everything. You won't ever find my using a ladle. I don't cast anything large enough to warrant it. I'm sure I would have lots of problems the first time I attempted it.

[Strtspdlx]

As everyone else said. Increase spout flow and if you have a mold guide either set it so you can see the flow. I never pressure cast. I find that if I have a problem with the mold it's heat or flow related. If it won't flow clean out the spout and surrounding area and retry. It took me several months to learn how to properly use a mold and pot. I wouldn't expect much different aside from the fact your already familiar with casting. Give it some time, I think you'll find you like it if you can get it setup to your liking.

[John Boy]

Have you tried to open the spout adjustment for higher volume delivery? No, but I will. Am not pressure pouring - just put the spout in the sprue hole & count to 5. Faster the melt goes in the sprue hole- less the melt temperature drops

For larger size and for long casts I run my pot around 725-750* and preheat the mold on my hot plate to 350-400*.The mold is an Ideal small block - normal heating done in gas burner and pot temperature was 730 degrees

Sorry Butchman, it's a Lee

Anyway, 101 good ones between 317.6 to 318.7 are now all pan lubed. The other 50 rejects that were re-cast are now in the same bell curve and put in a bullet tray naked


There is a learning curve to everything. Amen!

FYI: The Ideal 37584 bullets that are 0.375 (dead nuts) are used in my 1887 Wirfflein falling block single shot with a vernier. Charged with 42gr of KIK 2f

[M-Tecs]

I started casting in 1969 or 1970. I started with a bottom pour and 99% of the 1/4 million bullets cast have been with the bottom pour. I do ladle cast my competition BPCR bullets and some small run special alloys.

I do have a lee bottom pour but the only use that gets used as a pre-melt for my 90 pound Magna Cast. I also have a RCBS pro Melt, Saeco 10 pound bottom pour and two Waage 22 pound pots.

Both methods are technique sensitive for best results. I can make either work equally as well with maybe the exception of the BPCR competition bullets but I mostly went with the common wisdom that ladle pour was better for these. I have not done a head to head comparison.

[Butchman205]

When my bottom pour starts pouring more slowly or dropping, I clean the spout.
I use a pair of needle nose pliers to hold a small drill bit. I heat the bit with a propane torch to "almost red"...then raise the pour lever and insert drill bit quickly and give it a few quick in-and-outs. This makes my Lyman bottom pour work great.


-Butchman

[country gent]

I used a couple Lee 10lb bottom pours for pistol bullets and smaller rifle bullets with good results. One was casting the other reversed on the base on a stand for pre heat ment to fill bottom pot. This set up worked well and the only issue was keeping the spout cleared. On big bullets ( 45 cal 480-550grn, 400-425 grn 40s and 300-354 grn 38s) I didnt get near the consistancy I do with the ladle pouring. I still have the Lee pots and use the big ladle pot I built a few years ago. When casting big bullets a 100lb popt is a big plus. A small tin can be set under the spout to catch drips over flow. I used a cleaner for accetylene tourches to clean spout. A drill bit of the correct size can be used. I would disassemble the pot clean everything and use a drill or cleaner in the spout. I would also lapp the rod to the seat to insure that its a good seal to start with. My Lee pots always seemed to drip some, Not if but how fast. With big bullets and a 10 lb pot you are waiting for lead to melt more than casting. You can open the spout up some on the pot to get more flow. Sometimes lapping helps with the drips sometimes not. A weight can be added to the handle to increase down force on the valve also.

[Green Ghost]

I second everyone's good advise and will add that the amount of lead left in the pot will also affect flow rate. Less lead= less flow.

When you adjust it, be careful with the adjusting screw. If you screw it out too much, it may not close completely. Also it could become cocked and slip out of the groove in the rod leading it to empty all your lead on to your bench. In the pictures below you can see the pan I use
just in case of drips. The second picture shows a mod for the screw. a piece of .020 safety wire holding the adjusting screw to the metering rod.

Turn the screw counter-clockwise for more flow. Don't give up on it yet. a little patience will expand your casting options.

Good luck!

Jerry

[HeavyHev]

I made a taller bench for my casting so that I can see under the pot. With the little bit of bending I can see the whole poor. That will prevent your count and pray dilemma. As for cleaning the spout, I have a bent up paperclip that I stuff up the spout and twist around. That has corrected all of my issues.

[OS OK]

181853

Pull the trays out from under the pots and dump sprues in one and boolits in the other...raising the pots up..."I can see clearly now..." <<<dumb, a song popped into my head.

[HeavyHev]

Pull the trays out from under the pots and dump sprues in one and boolits in the other

Hot damn this is a good idea! I found my project for this weekend!

[dverna]

OS OK,

Is that saw blade on the hot plate "cutting edge" technology?

Don Verna

[OS OK]

Thanks for your nice compliment but...I used a 1 1/2" brad nailer as you can see...I made sure to use plenty of yellow carpenters glue because those pots full of molten Pb can get heavy. You wouldn't want this stand to collapse over sideways. Either brad nails or screw it but don't forget the glue.

[OS OK]

OS OK,

Is that saw blade on the hot plate "cutting edge" technology?

Don Verna

Yeah, good one...see the big nut I put the pin in? I'm a little 'nutz' too!

[Phlier]

I have a dog that's a bottom pour model, too. And just like my lead pot, I'm not getting rid of her just because she lets go on the floor every now and then.

[Strtspdlx]

I just realized you're probably near me. I'm about 15 minutes north of Atlantic city. So if you're not too far and still having issues I may be able to try and help. I'm not the greatest but I can usually make it work.


No, but I will. Am not pressure pouring - just put the spout in the sprue hole & count to 5. Faster the melt goes in the sprue hole- less the melt temperature drops
The mold is an Ideal small block - normal heating done in gas burner and pot temperature was 730 degrees

Sorry Butchman, it's a Lee

Anyway, 101 good ones between 317.6 to 318.7 are now all pan lubed. The other 50 rejects that were re-cast are now in the same bell curve and put in a bullet tray naked

Amen!

FYI: The Ideal 37584 bullets that are 0.375 (dead nuts) are used in my 1887 Wirfflein falling block single shot with a vernier. Charged with 42gr of KIK 2f

[Elkins45]

181853

Pull the trays out from under the pots and dump sprues in one and boolits in the other...raising the pots up..."I can see clearly now..." <<<dumb, a song popped into my head.

I have mine propped up on a stack of board ends, but this is a much better idea. I see a retirement project here.

[pmer]

For the price I like my 20 LB Lee pot. They are quirky and can (will) drip. Since the OPs pot was a new to him used one, it might need to be drained and cleaned out good.

I like to clamp mine down with a C clamp. I never had a scare about tipping one over but mine is clamped down during use.

[John Boy]

pmer - agree 100%
The used pot dirty as sin - fluxed the pot good before use and the results were wicked. So before I try it again will give it a bath like it has never had before - open up the spout hole with the pot elevated and see what happens the next time. Do have to admit, after all the issues and recasting the rejects, did get a pile of bullets with a 1gr variance but it was not like when I ladle cast. Want to thank all for your suggestions and won't give up!

[Walter Laich]

I sit my pot on about a 5 inch high shelf so I can see the spout and the top of the mold. Helps me greatly

My PID sits under the shelf somewhat protected from my ham-handedness which I am known for

[Jal5]

181853

Pull the trays out from under the pots and dump sprues in one and boolits in the other...raising the pots up..."I can see clearly now..." <<<dumb, a song popped into my head.

I like that stand. Have to make one!

[Vinne]

John Boy, sounds like it may be due for a good cleaning. Anyway, I too have problems with larger bullets. Sometimes I switch to a dipper to "fool" the pot. Hang in there...no stress just fun.

[jsn]

I wouldn't place the nozzle in the sprue hole, I would give it some separation and watch when the sprue puddle reaches a good mass.

You may have to empty all the lead to see why the nozzle leaks. Maybe you could fill some 1# ingots and something might break loose with the extra flow, but utlimately you will probably have to clean it to dislodge a small piece of crud.

[abunaitoo]

Did you clean the pot before you used it????
Like everyone suggested, it's probably dirty.
I used to use a Lee #10 until I got great deal on a used Lyman.
The way the spout is designed, it gets dirty all the time.
A good cleaning should get you better results.

[Lloyd Smale]

id no sooner go back to a ladle for casting then I would give up my star sizer or go back to loading handgun ammo on a single stage press. Like wading in mud!

[Jal5]

id no sooner go back to a ladle for casting then I would give up my star sizer or go back to loading handgun ammo on a single stage press. Like wading in mud!

Me too!

[Iowa Fox]

I started ladle casting but now I'm old and so shaky that a bottom pour with a good mold guide works the best for me. Actually I think Lloyd said it the best. Even if my hands were steady as a rock I wouldn't go back to ladle casting. Or give up the Star, or the Dillon's.

[NavyVet1959]

Putting a tray under the pot is good in case it leaks and you walk away. It will catch it, but it's also possible that when you come back, you will have the stand for the pot soldered to the tray. I had that happen once. These days, I just use a large piece of metal that covers the casting table, but has a lip on the front so that the if all the molten lead was to pour out at once, it would not end up in my lap. It's a large enough heat sink that any normal drips will probably solidify before running to far away from the pot.

[trapper9260]

I use a staple that fit in the hole of the pot and that clean out the hole for the flow and I use a AL cookie sheet to put the pot in and what ever lead drips will not stick to anything. I also put a ingot mold from lee or what ever under where pour. and if it dose drip it will go in the mold and I also have AL flashing on my bench top also and that helps also .It works for me.I pour everything with it .I have a 10lb. Lee one.Had to change the heater on it once already.

[John Boy]

John Boy, sounds like it may be due for a good cleaning.Vinnie, just finished scrubbing the ID of the pot out with a wire brush - cleaned rod for the spout - cleaned the hole above the spout, removed a ring of dross above the spout hole and drilled out the spout
Will see how it does the next session!

[paul h]

id no sooner go back to a ladle for casting then I would give up my star sizer or go back to loading handgun ammo on a single stage press. Like wading in mud!

Dittos other than I pc rather than use a star and I'd add two cavity molds to the list vs. 4 and 6 cavity molds.

[Dusty Ed]

Howdy John Boy
In 2003 I bought Magma Master Caster an Never looked back,I've been casting lead for over Sixty years. When I started BPCR shooting ,I was casting Hundred at a time , I found CAS an I was buying Bullets for $15 a Thousand ,they then escalated to $28 ,two of my new founded friends just bought the Magma , so went over an tried it ,I bought one .
I can run a 45 Lb. pot in 1 1/2 hours ,that is 25Lb. of bullets 15Lb. of sprews an 1" of lead in the pot.I get about 10% throw backs
Now the plus side for your Health, the pot is a above you, there is no heat on your body ,you are not breathing in fumes.
Right now you can sell the Magma for almost as much as you pay for it.
That is my story an I'm sticking to it.
Dusty Ed
182482

[Jal5]

181853

Pull the trays out from under the pots and dump sprues in one and boolits in the other...raising the pots up..."I can see clearly now..." <<<dumb, a song popped into my head.

Is that a battery clamp as a mold rest?

[OS OK]

Is that a battery clamp as a mold rest?

Yes it is a rest for an old Ideal HP mold with the wooden knob HP pin in the bottom. It's not a battery clamp, it's a clamp that was used to clamp onto a round iron bar, don't remember exactly what...I've been hanging onto junk like for so long... that I can't remember where it came from :(

[beagle]

I agree. May need a good cleaning. Maybe once a year I drain my Pro-Melts, remove the valve rod and linkages. The rod is turned using an electric drill and some crocus cloth. The appropriate size drill or reamer is used to clean out the orifice and a wooden dowel in an electric drill is used to polish the seat. The entire inside of the pot is scraped. You'll be surprised how much crud comes off all parts concerned and how much better the pot melts and no more drips./beagle


Either you don't have the spout adjusted open enough or it's partially clogged. Since it's dripping I'm assuming it's clogged. You need to place the pot where you can see the mold under it. This isn't a design flaw of the pot. It's on you to place it where you can see. Place the pot in some type of metal pan if you don't want hot lead getting all over the place.

There is a learning curve to everything. You won't ever find my using a ladle. I don't cast anything large enough to warrant it. I'm sure I would have lots of problems the first time I attempted it.

[John Boy]

and a wooden dowel in an electric drill is used to polish the seat. Thanks Beagle!

[longbow]

Glad you got your problem sorted out but I am a confirmed ladle caster. I started with a cast iron pot and large ladle then went to a Lee pot which i didn't like (not Lee bashing, just didn't like the bottom pour pot) so went back to the cast iron pot and ladle for about 30 years. Recently I was teaching a guy to cast and he had bought an RCBS bottom pour pot which actually worked very well and almost turned me. But after pouring some more 12 ga. slugs and round balls I decided that I will stick with ladle casting. My cast iron pot holds about 25 lbs. and my ladle holds about 1 1/2 lbs.

I can fill my 6 cavity .44 moulds or single cavity 0.735" ball mould quickly and easily with a ladle.

I like simple and pot and ladle are simple. Also, for larger pours I find the ladle works better for me.

To each their own.

Longbow

[6bg6ga]

I started out with a Lee drip and run pot. It worked for years until I bit the big hook and purchased a Ballisti-cast Mark IV. I no longer have puddles of lead on the bench or the valve sticking open draining the pot or the almost constant drips from the spout. Relax its just part of casting. You either use it the way you got it or you do some maintenance on it or you put out the bucks and purchase something else or lastly you purchase your bullets.