First Flintlock

[Wayne Smith]

My situation is that I have just under a grand and Cabela's bucks to spend, so I am looking at the Petersoli's that Cabelas carries. Is there a functional difference between them or is it all appearance? It's hard to say from the blurb Cabelas gives. I'm specifically looking at the Poor Boy (I like the look) and the full brass (Lancaster?) that they offer.

[waksupi]

Wayne, go to American Long Rifles page, and look at Track of the Wolf sales page. You may find a good deal on either one for a better grade gun.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?board=7.0

[Maven]

Wayne, Take a look at this Schimmel/Poor Boy @ $850 also from the ALR site: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=42099.0

[rfd]

jackie's got a southern .62 smoothbore poor boy in the making for me, my first gun from him. i've heard diff'rent stories about him, but i'll see for myself. he sells a lot of guns on that ALR forum.

if that schimmel gun is at least decent and a consistent shooter, his asking price is better than fair. take a good look at its spex and make sure that's what you want.

there are more than a few different kinds of flintlock configurations (and cap locks) with a number of different features. this is subjective stuff and some things will be good for you and others not so good. i have a tom watson "hawken" in the build and it has all the specific features that i want - that's what a custom gun should be all about, no compromise. on the lower end of the spectrum, those investarms rifles are, i believe, a good value and a good starter gun to help realize the direction to go, or stay.

so, if you don't really know exactly what you want, and why (hunting?), yer gambling. best of luck to ya!

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Take a look at Dixie Gun Works too.

[JeffinNZ]

Don't buy a cheap flintlock. It will ruin you for life.

[rfd]

Don't buy a cheap flintlock. It will ruin you for life.

there are dependencies to "cheap". not all of the "cheap" offshore guns are useless, but some sure are.

[rancher1913]

you guys missed the part about cabelas bucks----they can only be used at cabelas.

[rfd]

use yer cabela's buckeroos to get the pedersoli of yer choice - avoid the traditions.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

My friend bought a used but like new lyman great plains flintlock. He had to send it to a member on a forum to look at it due to all the poor ignition issues hes having. I had a few lymans and 2 of the 3 were junk. lyman is like everything else, its a hit or miss. Pedersoli even had issues with the frizzen on their rifles breaking. TC had gotten a rep of poor sparking, cock not striking correctly.

There is no perfect buy over the counter flintlock.

All my traditions flinters are doing wonderful after simply taking a c clap and compressing the frizzen spring a little remove pressure as it took way to much to open. Other than that, the frizzens spark great and consistent, ignition is amazingly fast with half a pan of powder ( they seem to like more pan powder BTW). I even went and bought a st.louis hawken kit because of my luck with traditions so far. However, I went to a percussion as i have 3 flinters as it is.

[mooman76]

You can get by with a cheap cap lock better than you can a flintlock. Many a person has been ruined for muzzle loading (ML) because they started out new to ML and with flintlocks. I'm not trying to persuade anyone not to go with flint but there is more of a learning curve with flint that a caplock. One has to know what to do when they are having ignition troubles. A cheap lock on flintlock guns can be anywhere from you got lucky and have a good one tone that barely works at all. Petersoli and Invest arms has a pretty good rep for a production gun. Traditions are better than they used to be. If you have a friend to help you that would be ideal to get started. Just a little food for thought, I know allot of info will be coming your way and some of it contradictory

[Wayne Smith]

Wayne, Take a look at this Schimmel/Poor Boy @ $850 also from the ALR site: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=42099.0

Maven and rfd - what do you KNOW about Jackies work? I am e-mailing him and he has sold that one but offered to make me one just like it.

I am not a novice muzzle loader - have a GPR with both barrels, never mounted the quick twist barrel, my best friend did the same and he put on the quick twist and never took it off! I guess I am a round ball shooter. I want a flint a) to fill out my 'collection' b) to have something to shoot it it all goes to hell legally, and c) because I've shot them and they are fun! Besides, I read the Last of the Mohicians and the rest of the Leatherstocking Tales in High School, long before the movie came out. I grew up watching Daniel Boon on TV

[rfd]

Maven and rfd - what do you KNOW about Jackies work? I am e-mailing him and he has sold that one but offered to make me one just like it.

I am not a novice muzzle loader - have a GPR with both barrels, never mounted the quick twist barrel, my best friend did the same and he put on the quick twist and never took it off! I guess I am a round ball shooter. I want a flint a) to fill out my 'collection' b) to have something to shoot it it all goes to hell legally, and c) because I've shot them and they are fun! Besides, I read the Last of the Mohicians and the rest of the Leatherstocking Tales in High School, long before the movie came out. I grew up watching Daniel Boon on TV


you have a pm coming shortly ....

[sharps4590]

With a flinter, it's all about the lock. Others have said it and I'll repeat it, a good one will be a joy and a bad one will put you off flintlocks, sometimes for good. If you get a bad one keep after it until you get it working correctly then keep shooting it. Follow through is key.

[waksupi]

jackie's got a southern .62 smoothbore poor boy in the making for me, my first gun from him. i've heard diff'rent stories about him, but i'll see for myself. he sells a lot of guns on that ALR forum.

if that schimmel gun is at least decent and a consistent shooter, his asking price is better than fair. take a good look at its spex and make sure that's what you want.

there are more than a few different kinds of flintlock configurations (and cap locks) with a number of different features. this is subjective stuff and some things will be good for you and others not so good. i have a tom watson "hawken" in the build and it has all the specific features that i want - that's what a custom gun should be all about, no compromise. on the lower end of the spectrum, those investarms rifles are, i believe, a good value and a good starter gun to help realize the direction to go, or stay.

so, if you don't really know exactly what you want, and why (hunting?), yer gambling. best of luck to ya!

I'd definitely like to hear what you think of the gun you get. I've seen some of his work, and have an opinion I won't share here.

[Wayne Smith]

Well, Rick, there are a couple ways to look at value. If I buy from him I will be answering the question "did I get what I paid for?" Rather than the question "Is it the best possible?" I know I can't afford a $2000-$4000 gun and don't expect one for less than a grand. I can do woodwork and he apparantly uses quality components, the question in my mind is; can he get the geometry right? However, your post encourages me to look elsewhere.

[rfd]

.... I've seen some of his work, and have an opinion I won't share here.

clearly, saying that is a negative towards jackie brown, gunmaker reknown :mrgreen: :twisted:

[rfd]

wayne, if yer thinking going beyond cabelas bucks, there are more than a few excellent gunmakers around, such as tip curtis, chris walker, tom watson and many more. tom is building me one now, and tip and chris have both have built rifles for me and their work is spot on. another thing is that i always get the entire gun in-the-white and do the wood finishing myself, that alone can save some serious dollars. a tip curtis carolina .45 flinter that i finished ...

http://i.imgur.com/xyhPJCV.jpg

[Wayne Smith]

Yeah, but budget gets in the way. How much will a grand buy me? I would love to do the wood finishing, but don't have the equipment to brown the barrel unless there is some way to do it without tanks.

[Maven]

Wayne, Laurel Mountain Forge Browning Solution doesn't require tanks, just somewhere to stand the bbl. after you apply the solution. Here's a link to their instructions: http://www.laurelmountainforge.com/barrel_brown_inst.htm Btw, it isn't difficult to do, easier than blueing in some ways. Also, rfd's suggestion about a Tip Curtis rifle is excellent.

[charlie b]

A friend of mine used the Laurel Mountain Forge solutions to brown and blue barrels. He used a metal gutter with the ends capped off (I think he only needed it for bluing, not browning, but I may be wrong on that).

[waksupi]

clearly, saying that is a negative towards jackie brown, gunmaker reknown :mrgreen: :twisted:


I just didn't want to influence the answer by anything either positive or negative.

[Wayne Smith]

Thanks, Maven. That was encouraging. That I can do.

[reivertom]

There is some good advice here. You will be much happier with a semi-custom rather than a Pedersoli. The Italian guns aren't bad, but for a bit more money you have a lot of options. None are perfect, but I always try to get the most for my money and I'm sure you do also.

[rfd]

one consideration with a flinter is a "hawken style" hooked breech and barrel wedge pin(s). this will make for easy and fast barrel removal for cleaning because removing pinned barrels ain't gonna happen after every shooting event.

the offshore trad ml's will have patent breech plugs that require special ante-chamber cleaning attention ... and those plugs will be hard if not impossible to remove if the need ever arises, and it might. i've had real issues in removing traditions, cva, and perdersoli breeches - i won't buy those brands. investarms (lyman, cabela, dgw) have plugs that can be removed with the right tools, i've pulled off way more than a few. other than that, the locks and triggers are just ok and all will need "tuning". so for the prices of these offshore guns (ready made and kits), there can be some measure of "value" to yer $300 to $500. i like the investarms kits, and the best value in those right now is the dgw investarms .50 flinter for $425.

however, what you get from a reputable onshore gunmaker's price of $1000 to $2500 blows the offshore guns off the map. again, in-the-white will save $$$.

then there are the used guns - i've gotten some really superb onshore trad ml's for a fraction of their original build cost. but you really do need to know what yer buying - seek help, get a return guarantee.

good luck, i truly hope you get the gun you both want and need.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Nothing wrong with the CVA / Traditions / Pedersoli breeches. If any time you need work done on that area of the gun, its always best to have a qualitifed gunsmith look at it and do any work. Or in the case of Traditions/Pedersoli, You can use their Warranty. That's whats great about production muzzies, they come with warranties that won't leave you out in the cold.

My Traditions Hawken Woodsman is a great rifle that fires fast and reliably. My Traditions Mountain Rifle is also another great flinter that sparks amazing with a good ol french amber flint.
https://youtu.be/4H4chpPy1mE

[Wayne Smith]

WOW! Just spent some hours over on frontier long rifle site - a thread on show your squirrel rifle. I think I'm pretty well decided that I have to save about another $500 and get one of Tip Curtis's in the white - and I'm thinking of a Virginia Mt/PoorBoy in B weight 40 Caliber swamped 40-42" barrel, his choice lock, iron furniture, no patch box unless the wood flaws demand one, in Curly rock maple or hard cherry wood. Given that I'm 6'2" and wear a 16x36" shirt I'll let him choose the wood. I can finish the iron and the wood - the wood is easy, been doing that for years, the iron I can learn. This is intended to be a round ball gun.

Any comments?

[Maven]

Excellent choice, Wayne! If you intend to cast RB's for that rifle, you may want to search out Jeff Tanner* or haunt E-Bay for a [nominally] .40cal. mould.


*With the British pound weak against the U.S. dollar, you'll be getting a built-in discount.

[rfd]

another +1 for an excellent choice, tip's one of the best for sure.

[Wayne Smith]

Excellent choice, Wayne! If you intend to cast RB's for that rifle, you may want to search out Jeff Tanner* or haunt E-Bay for a [nominally] .40cal. mould.


*With the British pound weak against the U.S. dollar, you'll be getting a built-in discount.
Cart before the horse, Maven! First I've gotta save the dollars, talk to Tip again and get something seriously ordered/paid for. Then I can think about flints, balls, etc. I have FFF Goex, will need something to prime pan with, ball mold of 390/395, and flints. Have .015 pillow ticking, a couple yards of it, so I guess .395 ball.

[Lethemgo]

Everyone seems to forget the cabelas bucks. I f this is your first ml I'd go with a percussion just to get past the learning curve of shooting a ml. If you just want a flinter cool the pedesoli gun are nicely finished. They're flind locks leave a little to be disired but will work for you just fine. You can always get a chambers or l&r lock or something to replace it later if it doesn't work out. Spend your bucks and you'll be happy...get the one that catches your eye and never look back. Wish I had that much bucks on my account. I'm more of a full lenght stock guy but a hawkens is always mighty pretty to look at.

[rfd]

prime the pan with 3f, no need for 4f or finer with a quality lock.

[Wayne Smith]

Everyone seems to forget the cabelas bucks. I f this is your first ml I'd go with a percussion just to get past the learning curve of shooting a ml. If you just want a flinter cool the pedesoli gun are nicely finished. They're flind locks leave a little to be disired but will work for you just fine. You can always get a chambers or l&r lock or something to replace it later if it doesn't work out. Spend your bucks and you'll be happy...get the one that catches your eye and never look back. Wish I had that much bucks on my account. I'm more of a full lenght stock guy but a hawkens is always mighty pretty to look at.

This is my second. The first is a Lyman GPR with both barrels and the faster twist barrel unused. (Anyone need one??) This I've been shooting for about ten years. I've been shooting C&B pistols for years. In fact, my first purchased (traded for) in high school was a C&B revolver.

Yes I know I can prime with 3F, but I only have a large horn. Made my measures, too. All I needed for the GPR.

[rfd]

... Yes I know I can prime with 3F, but I only have a large horn. Made my measures, too. All I needed for the GPR.

that's all i use, one large horn loaded with swiss 3f, for all my trad muzzleloaders from .32 to .62 - no need for 2f or 4f, promise. 8-)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhHVGNbPws

[Standing Bear]

I like .40s. Tip sets up a lot of parts and guns both finished and in the white at Friendship in Sept and maybe other times too. Don't know how far for u but I bet it's closer than from S Central Texas. U can handle and mount/sight different configurations as well as talk to him and other shooters. A good RB barrel will have .010-.012" grooves deeper if round bottom. A 48 twist w deep grooves will work fine in a .40 mine is 66 twist and needs 50 gr FFg to start shooting well. 75 gr is still accurate and keeps the ball super sonic past 100 yds. Get a TOP of the line flintlock lock. Mine is a Cochran that's no longer made. Chamber's Silers have a good reputation.

My favorite of 30 + years is a SMR .40 w 7/8" barrel 42" straight. Tried some w tapered and some swamped barrels but found them too light on the muzzle end for me and good offhand shooting. So I HIGHLY recommend handling several configurations as u aren't a small fellow either. Another thing is that I found FFg to be more consistent over many shots. I prime w 4F only when I don't have 7F or NullB. This ain't no speed game and a quick second shot is an oxymoron when using a ML. Try different things and see what u like best. IE I use a .395 ball and .018 patching with spit for lube. I don't have a .390 mold but I may buy some to try with denim patch. My barrel doesn't like the slick lubes I've tried as well as the spit.

Enjoy the journey.
TC

[rfd]

... My barrel doesn't like the slick lubes I've tried as well as the spit.

y'all need to patent and market yer spit. :)

[Lethemgo]

I love my GPR 54cal....built a traditions Kentucky flintlock but had trouble with the spark. Got it sparking now but haven't shot it yet. Have a trade gun I'm going to sell and have the parts to build a trade gun and a 40cal fainter. A different twist barrel might be cool for GPR what do you want for it.

[Wayne Smith]

Mine's a 50, not a 54. I haven't checked the market, but basically market price, it's still new.

Just checked, Lyman wants $360 for the 50caliber, right hand, percussion barrel. If you give me $340+shipping it will take me a long way toward what I need. Let me know.

[Wayne Smith]

Standing Bear, or others, where is Friendship? I know where the NMLRA is in Winchester, VA. - not far from me. Tip's place is eight or nine hours from me in Tenn. I had figured, when it came time to order, we would take a weekend trip.

[Standing Bear]

Friendship Indiana. NMLRA range. A little West of Cincinnati. 18 hours from me. Still worth the trip.