1859 Percussion Sharps

[Jim Baker]

I have recently purchased a Pedersoli 1859 Percussion Sharps & have lots of questions so first, is there anyone out there who is familiar with this rifle and has done some shooting (paper, brass or loose powder) with it? A couple of questions:
1. The sliding sleeve gas check design. Is this essentially the same as in the original 1859 sharps or modified?
2. Any good books or articles to recommend on original Sharps rifle designs eg their gas seals, weight of 52 cal round, grains of powder in linen cartridges, barrel twists, etc.
3. How do they shoot in terms of accuracy? I'm new to the sport but my 54 Cal Hawken seems to be more accurate (I was using brass reusable cartridge and 50 grains fff in Sharps- it did better w/ 3F than 2F).
4. Is this the best forum for black powder muzzleloader (Hawken,1860 Colt 44 & Percussion Sharps) Will appreciate suggestions. Am putting down deposit 74 Shiloh Sharps but that will be two years off so I will concentrate on the muzzle stuffers for now.
Anyway, thanks for listening (reading?), will appreciate information and contacts for future questions.

[montana_charlie]

The forum at this location http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=7c7dac9fb3025ff5292123f5798eb8f1
is devoted to shooting the type of Sharps you have.

You may get all that you need by just searching and reading...but if you join the forum you may not want to advertise the fact that yours is a Pedersoli rifle.

I have not spent time on that forum, so I don't know if they are as 'brand loyal' as the bunch on the forums devoted to discussions about the 1874 model.

CM

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Montana_Charlie nailed it. BvT

[sharps54]

For muzzleloading I think you will find www.muzzleloadingforum.com to be about the best forum out there. Another place to find out info on actually shooting your Pedersoli is the forum at www.n-ssa.org , go to the small arms board and search, you will find all kinds of info on sharps.

I just sold an 1859 Pedersoli carbine, it would get so fouled after 8 shots I had to pound the breech open with a 3/4" wooden dowel! I have a Shiloh 1863 Sporting rifle that doesn't have that problem so I let the Pedersoli go. There are fixes for this problem and they can be found on the n-ssa forum, some folks do an "o-ring" conversion for example.

There a a couple of good books on the originals, I am at work but when I get home tonight I'll post some titles for you. My Pedersoli seemed like a nice rifle other then fouling quickly and I think with the right techniques or modifications that can be overcome.

Jason

[NickSS]

I have two pedersoli 1859 Sharps one in 54 and one in 45. The 54 is the one I shoot the most. However I will start off by saying that I have had more trouble keeping the pedersolies shooting that any other sharps percussion rifle I own (I own an IAB and two Armi Sport made ones. The problems I have had with the pedersolli's is simpily that they modified the sharps gas check and the modified gas check does not work as well as the original design. The pedersolli has a small diameter straight hole drilled through the plate that fits into the breach block. It works well when new but they get gas cut fast and then blow gas pretty badly. The newer stainless steel ones work better. The slidding sleave is a copy of the original sharps. To work properly it needs to be cleaned and after a few shots it is hard to remove unless you use Copper neverseize on it. After cleaning lube it up with neverseize and you will be able to remove it easier. I had a guy build me an O ring gas sleave for my rifle. This is the same size as the original but it is cut in half with a male and female ends that fit together the O ring is inbetween the two halfs. This did wonders for sealing gas and the rifle does not gas cut as bad as it did before. By the way I have had no troble with the gas checks on my IAB or army sport rifles only the pedersolli. For bullets I use a rapine 475 gr ringtail sharps bullet that is listed as a .544 diameter but only the bottom driving band is that diameter the others are smaller like ,542 and .540. This lets the bullet alighn with the bore when seated. I have fired it with paper cartridges and loose powder with charges ranging from 50 gr to 90 gr. The rifle shoots well and I have been able to shoot six inch groups at 200 yards with it.. The pedersollis bore is 540 groove diameter and 520 land diameter just like the original sharps rifles. The other ones I have are 540 land diameter and about .550 grouve diameter.

[Jim Baker]

Thank-you all above, good information. Since sending this I have found the Shiloh web site. Folks on that forum have been welcoming and helpful even though I confessed up front that I had a Ped. Hearing about the sealing problems with the Ped is not good news, guess I will have to keep shooting it and learn all I can.

[Jim Baker]

NickSS, you wrote: "I had a guy build me an O ring gas sleave for my rifle. This is the same size as the original but it is cut in half with a male and female ends that fit together the O ring is inbetween the two halfs." Can you tell me who did this work. I am having trouble visuallizing, maybe he could send me pictures. Sounds like I may need him some day. Thanks, Jim Baker

[NickSS]

The gas sleave is the same overall length but is cut in two pieces. one has a female socket and the other has a male end that slips into the female socket. The O ring slips on the male end and the male end is inserted into the female socket when installing the gas sleave. This does two things. First is to make it so the entire gas sleave can be removed to clean it. Second is that the O ring applies pressure to the face of the breach block sealling plate giving a better seal as a result. I think the guy who did the work for me was named Bobby Holt and he was located in PennsYlvainia. They talk about him on the NSSA bullitin board a lot or at least used to. I have not visited there in a couple of years so do not have up to date info.

[Mike Manco]

I have two Pedersoli 1859 Sharps one in 54 and one in 45. The 54 is the one I shoot the most. However I will start off by saying that I have had more trouble keeping the Pedersoli's shooting that any other sharps percussion rifle I own (I own an IAB and two Armi Sport made ones. The problems I have had with the Pedersoli's is simply that they modified the sharps gas check and the modified gas check does not work as well as the original design. The Pedersoli has a small diameter straight hole drilled through the plate that fits into the breach block. It works well when new but they get gas cut fast and then blow gas pretty badly. The newer stainless steel ones work better. The sliding sleeve is a copy of the original sharps. To work properly it needs to be cleaned and after a few shots it is hard to remove unless you use Copper neverseize on it. After cleaning lube it up with neverseize and you will be able to remove it easier. I had a guy build me an O ring gas sleeve for my rifle. This is the same size as the original but it is cut in half with a male and female ends that fit together the O ring is in between the two halves. This did wonders for sealing gas and the rifle does not gas cut as bad as it did before. By the way I have had no trouble with the gas checks on my IAB or army sport rifles only the Pedersoli. For bullets I use a rapine 475 gr ring-tail sharps bullet that is listed as a .544 diameter but only the bottom driving band is that diameter the others are smaller like ,542 and .540. This lets the bullet align with the bore when seated. I have fired it with paper cartridges and loose powder with charges ranging from 50 gr to 90 gr. The rifle shoots well and I have been able to shoot six inch groups at 200 yards with it.. The Pedersoli's bore is 540 groove diameter and 520 land diameter just like the original sharps rifles. The other ones I have are 540 land diameter and about .550 groove diameter.

After reading your comments I'm a bit concerned about my Pedersoli Sharps Carbine. Mine has the CZ Year Code (2005), and appears to have the Stainless Gas seal. I called Dixie and talked to Jamie the Gun Smith, and asked him what I should lube the Gas Seal with, as I have been using CVA Breach Plug Grease, and he told me to use Bore Butter. I've only fired my new carbine a half dozen times so far, with no problems except the odd shape of my paper cartridges. To be sure of ignition, I poked a hole in each one and added a few grains of powder. I then, after closing the breech followed the ritual of turning the rifle over to dump excess powder so it doesn't get into the fore arm and explode some day.
With this in mind, I bought 10 Brass casings to which I am suppose to be able to put 50-55 grain of BP, and seat a bullet. The 475 Gr. 542 Pointed Ring Tail bullets from Montana Precision Swaging sit loosely on top of the brass, because the Ring Tail is too small. I have since ordered a Pedersoli bullet mold for my carbine that is suppose to work with their brass. Even with that, the owner of "The Possibles Shop http://www.possibleshop.com/sharps-rifle.htm
told me I'd have to press in the bullets; they seat less than 1/4 inch into the brass according to him. It is a well made beautifully metal to wood fit piece--to be sure, and I'm having headaches wondering what will happen to me the first day out at the range with it? Any and all information will be gratefully appreciated. Mike

[willyboy]

I'm getting a 1863 .54 Sporting Rifle by IAB ,and am following all this with interest...

[Mike Manco]

I'm getting a 1863 .54 Sporting Rifle by IAB ,and am following all this with interest...

I looked at the IAB as well, and this comment kind of turned me off on the IAB:


PR0132 IAB Sharps Sporting Rifle Reviews


Product: PR0132 IAB Sharps Sporting Rifle

From: John Ford
Date: Monday 25 May, 2009

Review:

This is a beautiful firearm radiating history at every angle. My concern is in regards to the flash from the about the block. I actually experienced a fire igniting a hand towel that was directly below the action. I usually place a handtowel on the range table to keep caps and small items from rolling about. I measured the gap between the block and the breech ring and found it to be .010" This rifle has no gas seal as the Pedersoli rifle. Shoots well, however. Just don't have your left forearm or other flammables below the action.

And this:
PR0402 IAB Sharps Sporting Rifle Reviews


Product: PR0402 IAB Sharps Sporting Rifle

From: john ford
Date: Monday 03 September, 2007

Review:

This is a fun firearm, especially at the range where other smokepoles are belching.

Be aware this firearm has no sliding breech seal as in the original and high-end reproductions. As a direct result, some of the hot chamber gases escape from around the breech block when fired. Be sure to have all combustibles well away from below the breech when firing. I caught a rag on fire that I was using to remove excess lubricant from the bullets while loading.

Also, I found excessive wear on the trigger guard lever where a spring-loaded locking pin rides into a detent in the trigger guard lever to assist closure of the breech. I assume the trigger guard is not sufficiently hardened. I accept this problem and compensate by heavily lubrcating the detent and pin.

I installed the Creedmore sight made for this rifle and found the grouping improved substantially. This sight is specially made for this firearm; the other Creedmore sights do not fit the slight tang curvature properly.

If I had the extra wampum I think I would have gone with the higher-dollar reproductions availble through Dixie Gun Works; the ones with the sliding breech seal!!!

Sincerely,
John Ford




Hmm, what to think?

[Mike Manco]

:wink:Then, there was this review:
PR0132 IAB Sharps Sporting Rifle Reviews


Product: PR0132 IAB Sharps Sporting Rifle

From: daniel emmons
Date: Monday 23 June, 2008

Review:

This gun has a wonderfull walnut stockfit and finsh
are well done better than I expected. The action is a little tight after shooting plus had to file the front sight down was getting cloverleaf's at 25 yd but 6 inchs low.I do not like the full buckhorn rear sight. Shooting the 475 grain
soild round nose with 60 grains of FF kicks like a mule
love it

Rating: [3 of 5 Stars!]

This review can be taken for what it's worth. I've read other comments refering to I.A.B. as standing for (It's always broke)?
The Pedersoli Sharps "S.C. Robinson Confederate Carbine" that I bought is vary well made, and fit & finish is perfect. I'm even considering buying a Set Trigger for it for $175, but first I want to go down to the farm for a days chuck hunting/extended shooting to see where I need to go next with the gun. I even bought the mold made by Pedersoli for this carbine, and it makes some nice looking 530 Grain bullets; in fact just as nice as the 475 gr 542 Pointed Ring tails I bought from Montana Predision Swaging! Knowing me, I figure I'll come home with a highly polished brass buttplate and a black and blue shoulder!:wink:

[Mike Manco]

To be fair I think this review and several like it is what made me decide to buy the Pedersoli.

PR3215 Pedersoli Confederate Sharps Carbine Reviews


Product: PR3215 Pedersoli Confederate Sharps Carbine

From: tyler kerr
Date: Thursday 19 March, 2009

Review:

fantastic gun, its a near exact copy of an original S.C. Robinson i have, the fit and finish is perfect, the barrel is brown, not blued. very accurate, has a nice stiff kick. all the offensive markings are stamped under the barrel out of sight. just be careful when closing the breech, it has a tight spring and if your fingers are in the way the lever will bite. over all i would give it 10 stars.

P.S. shoots better and is 1/3 cheaper than the Shiloh Sharps i have.

Rating: [5 of 5 Stars!]

[NickSS]

I have an IAB carbine 54 caliber percussion and I am totally happy with it. The Sharps gas seal is in the breach block on it and works fine in my rifle. Anyone shooting a Sharps percussion rifle should note that gas does come out of it above and below the breach block to some extent. If you have too much coming out uou can put a thin O ring behind the breach block seal. Not too thick because then you can not install the breach block. One thing that is very important is to clean the breach seal completely after firing. I ground a small divot into the the inside edge of the plate so that I can slip a screwdriver between the plate and the breach block to separate them. If you have not done this you can use a knife blade to work it loose. I also put copper never sleaze on the back of the gas plate and around the extension that fits into the hole in the breach block. You also need to pull the clean out screw and clean the flash channel with a pipe cleaner and hot water every time you shoot the gun. Bore butter or crisco on the edges of the breach block let you shoot longer between cleanings.

[Mike Manco]

My carbine has a thin washer that goes in before the gas seal. I first used CVA Breech Plug Grease; since I use it on my 50 cal in-line with good results. Jamie, the gunsmith at Dixie told me to use Bore Butter in that area. I've only had the chance to pop off a few rounds so far, and the inside of the gas seal was naturally dirty, but I wasn't having any problems. The true test will come when I go down to my friend's farm. If all I have to gripe about is a sore shoulder--it will have been a great day!
Thanks for the heads-up! My gas seal has two indentations for one's finger nails or a screw driver already. This is my first Sharps, so all the advice and suggestions I get will be appreciated to the max. Mike