Swage 6.5mm to 257?

[corelokt]

Wondering about sizing heavy 6.5 jacket bullets to .257 for heavier bullets, 130-140 gn.?

[Goober]

I shoot 6.5mm creedmoor so I am also interested.

[runfiverun]

you swage UP and size down.
to get a 264 bullet down to 257 you'd size it to about 254 first then punch it up to 257.
probably be easier to start off with empty 6.5 jackets and size them down, core seat, and point form.

[reed1911]

Yes, you could draw them down over two steps, but I agree that the core would be loose and accuracy would suffer considerably. You would be much better off making them from scratch, or as Riverrun pointed out you could draw them down and then point back up.

I have to ask why though, 130g -140g in .257 is a very long bullet and you would need a very fast twist barrel backed by a large cartridge to keep the velocity up.
Even my .257 Condor is a massive overbore in .25 cal and would not support that heavy a bullet in its 1:9 twist. You would need either a 1:7 or a 1:8 depending on the length of the bullet and tip profile. You would be looking at a custom barrel and custom chamber backed by a cartridge that would ruin the throat in something less than 1500 rounds.

Don't get us wrong, no one is trying to dissuade you from the project, but there is a lot more to some projects than meet the eye when only looked at on its face.

[corelokt]

I have a 250ai, it comes in so close to 260rem, powder capacity and bullet diameter wise, that a heavier bullet makes sense to me.

[corelokt]

Can I cast a bullet and swage a cup to that for a 257 bullet? Would 17 hmr or 17 wsm brass make good jackets?

[runfiverun]

the 17win is just about dead on for the 270 win as is.
you'd have to push the rim off, then size down.
you'd most likely need to pinch trim the jacket to length and swage a core to weight.
then seat and form.

if I were to do this [and I have thought about a heavier bullet for the 25's]
I would start with a 6.5 jacket [because they are available]
run it through a size die to get the jacket down to a 254 OD then pinch trim the jacket to length [probably @1.3" off the top of my head]
and go from there.

[Duckiller]

My 257AI on a full length Rem 700 action does real good with 120 gr. projectiles. Not sure I want or need much longer, heavier boolits.

[Texas by God]

I did this twice to see if it would work. I ran Remington 6.5 140 gr Corelokts through a .257" Lee bullet sizer die. I used .270 win starting loads for 150 gr bullets for a safety margin. Using my Tikka T3 the first group was 1-1/2" so I thought I was onto something. The groups after that averaged 4" so I moved on to other projects. Later I tried again with a warmer load- the best group was 2"- including one keyhole. I agree a faster twist would be needed. I've been happy ever since with 60 to 120gr bullets. A fast twist .257 ? Just go 6.5mm. Best, Thomas.

[reed1911]

Can I cast a bullet and swage a cup to that for a 257 bullet?

No, because a cast .25 bullet will be too large to fit into the jacket. I would recommend using lead wire in this case. You also cannot use the alloy you use for casting as a core, at least not without a very large press and very large dies. You need pure lead to make you own bullets on a regular press with regular bullet swaging dies. Now, you can cast your cores with regular molds, but you will want to run them into a core swage die set to both even up the weight to be precise as well as get rid of the lube grooves. If you do not they will show up on the finished jacketed bullets and will not be the proper size (OD) as well as you will have significant weight variation since you will need to cast with 100% to 99.5% lead (0.5% ant.) and with no tin they do not fill out very well and thus the weight varies a lot. When I cast 200g cores they range from 198-205g (that is a 3.5% weight variation), I'm not terribly careful since I know I'm going to swage those bullets as cores and I'm sure I could tighten that variance up a bit, but it will still be too much for my taste as well as we still have to swage them into proper cylinders. The nice thing is that I can buy the lead at about 1.00 a pound rather than the pre-formed wire at 4.00-6.00 a pound and any excess bleed off just goes back into the pot to be recycled.

I'm going to guess that you do not have a lot of jacketed bullet making experience; if I tell you what you already know you can skip over this.
The general way that jacketed bullets are made are:
cast core or cut from lead wire
Lubricate the cores
Run the cores into the core swage die to get the weight perfect, not close, perfect
clean the cores of all lubricant
lube the exterior of the jackets (assuming you have jackets the proper size and length)
seat the cores
point form the finished bullets

There are extra steps if you need to make the jackets and if you need a boat tail that would add 2 extra steps.

[kc3ak]

"The nice thing is that I can buy the lead at about 1.00 a pound" where can you get soft lead for $1.00 a pound? The best I've come up with is around 1.75 a pound plus shipping. I could use some cheaper lead.

[reed1911]

Right here in the S&S and Vendor section. Good folks here sell COWW, SOWW, and pure all the time for 1.00 a pound.

[Zbench]

Ron,

There is pure, and then there is pure. I have purchased a lot of the "pure" lead here, and at the end of the day, it always has stuff in it. Maybe not much, but enough that it impacts how hard it is to swage, etc. The only pure stuff is what comes from ingot at a foundry, and there are even different grades of purity in that. The antimony which occurs naturally with lead is very hard to get out. Some industries demand it, like the electrode plating industry. That's why stuff you see that is really pure is so expensive. I'm not saying people in swapping and selling are dishonest, just don't realize the various levels of purity required. Plus, the Xray guns that most guys rely on are a rough guide, not an analytical analysis like you get from a foundry with purity levels out to .000001.

Having said all that, the stuff you buy here is plenty pure enough for blackpowder and stuff like that, but you might be disappointed when it comes to swaging, especially if you are using a reloading press.

[runfiverun]

a bit of antimony in a swaged core is actually easier for the little press to swage into shape.
I use the little rcbs rc JR press to make my 22 cal stuff on.
and the old SAS press to squirt cores on.
the lead I have is 1-1.5% antimony and it actually is easier than the plumbers lead I have to squirt.
the antimony crystals break down under pressure and allow the lead to flow over itself easier.
I wish I would have bought more of it when I got it.

[reed1911]

Well Gosh ZBench, you have a point. However, the lead that is sold as pure here is generally good enough for swaging; at least for my operation. A small amount of impurity is negligent for even the smallest cores. The cores for the .12 cal are as small as the bleed from a .30 cal core swage. So long as it is 99%-99.5% I'm good with it and the targets speak for themselves in terms of what the bullets think about it.
I make bullets in .12, .14, .17, .20, .22, .25, .30, .38, .40, .41, .44, and .45 and have no problems. I use both the Sea-Girt and CSP presses for all my bullets, the CSP for the smaller stuff and the SG for the larger.

[Zbench]

Runfiverun,

That's interesting that is your experience, as mine is radically different. I have no shortage of 1.5% antimony lead as we reprocess it from the shooting range we own and run. When I swage pure lead side by side with the antimonial stuff, there is no comparison in how it flows. The stuff with the antimony will build up pressure and will finally flow like stepping on a tube of toothpaste, while the pure lead flows immediately upon pressure being applied. I wonder if it's a case where your plumbers lead has even more "stuff" in it than the stuff that is reported to be pure? I've tried it many times, and the result is always the same unfortunately.

[runfiverun]

I think some of it has to do with how you set you dies up too.
if you get them to squirt right as you go to cam over you get everything all at once and the lead flows better.
if you try to drag it out too long before that you need to exert a whole bunch of extra pressure.
I don't know if your familiar with the SAS type presses but they are a slightly better built LEE C-type press.

I explained it to little girl by having her punch some rims off of 22 cases.
she weighed about 125-130 lbs and was balancing herself [entire body weight] on the handle of the press trying to get them to size down.
I turned the die out about 1.5 turns and was using one hand to push them through the press.

[reed1911]

What size are you swaging? And which dies? The larger the core the harder it gets (goes without saying I know), also the dies make a big difference too. I have one 40 cal (.352" core) with three bleed holes of 0.060" and I have one that is a .350" with one bleed hole of .075". The one with the single bleed hole is TOUGH, it really needs to be on a hydro unit as it will wear you out on a hand press, but the three hole unit is easy and takes less force than pointing up .22 cal bullets. I'll have to the throw a weight up on the ram one day and see what the difference is between alloys, just for the curiosity.

[corelokt]

Will a cast 6mm bullet take a jacket and work in a 25cal bore?
I ask because I have hundreds of pounds of lead.

[reed1911]

Yes, a 6mm core would fit, but again, you'll need to core swage the cast bullet or it will not properly fill in the jacket. You would have gaps of trapped air around the lube grooves and the finished bullet would then also have rings on the outside.

[corelokt]

Ok, still learning here. What cast bullet would work to swage a jacket onto to make, say a 257 bullet?

[reed1911]

a 6mm is going to be the pick if you have to pick from an existing mold. But then again, you'll be working with bullets too light to obtain the weight you are after.
If you were going to make one, I'd make a true core mold which is just a straight cylinder so that you can cast the core. I would still suggest swaging the core to get your weight correct.

[corelokt]

My goal is a round nose, bonded, hunting bullet for a lever action, tube fed, rifle. 120gn-ish is fine so long as consistent.

[corelokt]

Oh, btw, I'm not above using rimfire brass for jackets. Long rifle or Magnum size.
What is cost to get started?

[runfiverun]

it can vary but I'd say $1200 wouldn't be too far off for a good set of dies and stuff to do things right.
you could do a 2 cavity core mold yourself from a blank LEE mold.

[reed1911]

Runfiverun gives a good est.
Bonded is no issue at all, you just add the bonding process, which is nothing more than a little flux and melting the lead core in the jacket to bond them.