Ed Harris "The Load"

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Has anyone use this load in their rifles? I would like to try it in my Mosin Nagant M44 but would like to know what others have done with it.

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=1387&forum_id=22

thanks

[bruce drake]

Check the search button on this forum. Its a great starting load for many military surplus rifles.

[racepres]

Absolutely!!!
My '06 loves it..I backed off for 7X57 tho...Just a bit.
I don't see a tremendous advantage over Unique tho...Maybe a very little bit cheaper...maybe.

[WILCO]

Has anyone use this load in their rifles? I would like to try it in my Mosin Nagant M44 but would like to know what others have done with it.

I tried it in my M44 with dismal results. Keyholing and shotgunning were the order of the day.
Life intervened and haven't tried it since. I believe it works though, just need to do my part in putting it all together.

[WILCO]

I would like to try it in my Mosin Nagant M44 but would like to know what others have done with it.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?131550-7-62-x-54R-1st-loads

[GhostHawk]

Works in the Mosin although I ended up down at 10 grains of Red Dot.

Works great in the .444 marlin also.

[3006guns]

I've used it in 30-06 (good), 8x57 Mauser (excellent) and 15 grains in a 6.5 Jap of all things. The 15 grain load will ring the gong at 200 yards every time if I do my part.

That 16 grain load in any "full size" military cartridge is an excellent starting point for most guns.

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Hey thanks guys. I wasn't going to go to the 13gr but about 10gr or so to start. So even with the low volume of powder in the 7.62x54r case there are no pressure problems? Since the load isn't published in the books I wanted to get some verification before I try it.
I will check the link, thanks. I am assuming much less recoil. Is it pretty accurate? Just looking for a load that won't beat me up and can afford to shoot.
Can this load be use without GC boolits?

Read the posts. Very interesting. I think I'll give it a try.

[GhostHawk]

Nope, no problems of any sort here. I am using the .312 185 gr gas checked beagled to .315 and sized and applied gas check in a .314 lee sizer.

CCI large rifle primers. Load 5 and cycle them through until they are gone.

Easy enough on the shoulder, accurate enough to kill a deer or man as far as you can see the iron sights clearly. My old eyes kept me mostly shooting at the 50 yard area.

I also like 20 grains of IMR 4895. But the Red Dot load burns half as much powder so half the cost. YMMV

[tdoyka]

i use trail boss, unique, rel7 and h4198 in my 30-40 krag and my 444 marlin.

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Can anyone tell me the velocity of a 180 gr cast boolit with 13r or Red Dot in a M44? I know this is a stretch but I am trying to use Red Dot and keep the velocity less than 1500fps. In other words I would rather not GC my boolits. The boolits I will be using are Missouri Hi-Tek 180grain. Actually any info concerning Red Dot velocities in the M44 would be helpful.
thanks

[GhostHawk]

I suspect you will have to cut that load in half.

Try 7 grains in a clean barrel and look closely for leading.
Then walk up until you see leading and mark which loads are most accurate.

I am guessing you will find the sweet spot between 7 and 9 grains.

I shoot mine checked so it is not an issue for me.

I'll try to grab a peek at my Lymans #3 and see what they have listed.

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Oh Ok thanks. I really didn't know if I could go that lite a load. I just want to keep it under 1500fps. Missouri Bullet co they were good to 1600fps but I wanted a margin of error there. What mold are you using?

[Outpost75]

In the .30-'06 the 13 grain Red Dot load is right at 1600 fps with #311299. If you want to shoot #311299 or similar without the GC 6 grains of Red Dot is about 1000 fps, 7 grains about 1100, 8 grains about 1200 and 9 grains about 1350 fps. More than 9 grains in the '06 requires a gascheck and I absolutely would not exceed the 13 grains with a cast bullet heavier than 180 grains.

[hardy]

Yep,9 grains of Promo ,Lee TL155,Recluse Lube no gas check and no leading was the best plinking load I could find.Good out to 200 yards with silly little iron sights in a 2groove sporter.
Cheers,Mike

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Thanks guys. Just getting some info together to see what my options are. Cast for a bunch of pistol calibers but never cast for rifle. I powder coat all my pistol bullets. Now, only because I don't know. Has anyone gas checked powder coated rifle bullets? Is there any reason not to do this?
I think I will start at 8gr of Red Dot for the m44.

[Donor8x56r]

I do use that load since 1999.Read up whole article by Mr.Harris-there is a lot more to be learned there than just "The Load".

[racepres]

I do use that load since 1999.Read up whole article by Mr.Harris-there is a lot more to be learned there than just "The Load".
Yep, I still have the printed article from a Magazine...

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Planning to load up some 7.62x54R in a day or so using "The Load" cast and Red Dot. Where is a good starting point of OAL?

thanks

[Outpost75]

Planning to load up some 7.62x54R in a day or so using "The Load" cast and Red Dot. Where is a good starting point of OAL?

OAL depends upon throat and bullet profile. In my Finn M39 I seat GC of NOE #314299 to the base of the neck and just shoot. Throat is too long to seat bullet out to touch, so I don't worry about it. More importannt to have adequate neck tension for good ignition.

[GONRA]

GONRA sez Harris is great of course, but watchout for olde "fillers" advice.
No way to tell "how much" is safe in necked cartridges.
Better to "just say no" to fillers to avoid blowing up the firearm.

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Unless I missed it while reading Ed Harris's writeup about "The Load" I can't find an OAL using Red Dot. Problem is since Red Dot is normally a shotgun powder there aren't and OAL listed. You guys that use the load what OAL are you using? I know some guys load so that the cartridge will fit in the mag but I would rather not guess.

thanks

[leadhead]

I was never very concerned about OAL... I always tried to get the bullet to "kiss" the
rifling, then back off a scosh.
Denny

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Yep ok. I was concerned about the amount of unused volume in the case after loading with 8gr of Red Dot and if OAL might effect pressure. I was going to start with 8gr and work up just a little. There seems to be an awful lot of room left in the case.

[GhostHawk]

Depends on your rifle and what the throat looks like. If big long bullets give you troubles set them a touch short.

Set a boolit barely into a flaired case, chamber it. Keep easing it in a little at a time until it chambers easily without quite engaging the rifling.

Then crimp it, label it for boolit, use it to set your seating die.

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Ok so using Red Dot and the low volume it takes in the case really doesn't have any real effect on the OAL. The only variable is the chamber length.
What I am trying to do is to use Ed Harris's The Load to load some cast with low enough velocity so I don't have to gas check. I will reread but I think he said 7 or 8 gr of Red Dot should do it.

[GhostHawk]

Vary's some according to caliber and bullet weight, but yes, 7-8 should put you below 1400fps although I have found most of mine will find better accuracy down in the 4-5 grains of Red Dot area. 4.6 grains in fact I have found to be very good in everything from .223 up to .357 mag. I do use more in my Mosin but I have gas checks on those boolits so the extra speed is fine. Same for my .444 marlin single shot handi rifle where I use the full 13 grains. Considering most loads for that caliber call for high 40's or mid 50 grains of powder I feel like 13 grains of Red Dot is just sipping.

I myself have not gone below 3, I don't think it is wise for most calibers, even pistol.

3 grains makes a nice mellow 9mm load.

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Wow Good info thanks. I didn't think of going below 6gr. Looks like there is enough room to actually develop a RD load. I will probably go with gc bullets later but this is what I have now.

[GhostHawk]

FYI that 4.6 grains in my .357 put 3 into one hole at 50 yards.

The .223 load feels and sounds like a .22lr but with a little more oomph.

Just watch the double charges and don't expect it to cycle actions.

It all depends on what you need any given round to do.

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Of course I'll have to play with it to see. I really don't need high power rounds all the time just once in a while. I would like to get a good target round for normal shooting, mostly 50 yards and maybe out to 100. Right now I just want it for my M44. For just shooting I hate to burn 45gr of powder. I'll probably start with 6,7 then 8gr for RD. If I don't get leading and good accuracy I'll stop there and work on some heavier loads later.

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Outpost75, and all

I loaded up some rounds this evening and when I tried to chamber them the bolt would not close. I checked the sizing of the case and it was fine. I then took the cartridge apart and chambered only the brass case. It locked up like it should. I could not find an oal that was listed for the bullet I am using. I decided to keep shortening the OAL until the bolt would close. Am I correct in thinking this is safe?

Apparently it's fine. Took them out and shot them with no ill effects.
thanks

[racepres]

^^ Too late...but, you did the right thing!!!

[Outpost75]

^^ Too late...but, you did the right thing!!!

+1 you figured it out!

[Shiloh]

Used it in 8x57 16.5 gr. worked better for the sight clicks. 1588 fps. I was able to hold just into the black at this load without stringing my shots.


Shiloh

[hc18flyer]

[QUOTE=Shiloh;3870652]Used it in 8x57 16.5 gr. worked better for the sight clicks. 1588 fps. I was able to hold just into the black at this load without stringing my shots.

? 16.5 of Red Dot? With what weight of bullet? I have a bunch of old Green Dot from my trapshooting days, would love to use it Up? I just purchased a NOE 326323 a gc round point mold. Planning on casting some tomorrow and loading on Sunday. I'll reread 'The Load' to see if it mentions Green Dot, thoughts? THanks, Flyer

[Outpost75]

16.5 of Red Dot is too hot. "The Load" was 13 grains of Red Dot in most .30 cal. or larger cases .303 British or larger. Ed wrote another article about 16 grains of #2400 for similar purposes, which also works well but 16 grains of Red Dot is WAAAAAYYY too much for anything smaller than a .375 H&H!!!!

Green Dot is somewhat slower than Red Dot and can be substituted for it without getting into "trouble."

[racepres]

^^ I agree...I have never used more than 13 gr of red dot...generally less.
GreenDot?? I still keep it on hand for reloading our 20ga rounds...Only thing I have ever used Greendot for...

[Shiloh]

Used it in 8x57 16.5 gr. worked better for the sight clicks. 1588 fps. I was able to hold just into the black at this load without stringing my shots.


Shiloh

16.5 gr. Alliant 2400. Ring the 13" gong at 200 yard darn near every time from a sand bag rest.

Shiloh

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Has anyone use unique if so how did it workout?

[Outpost75]

Unique will work also, but gets "peaky" as you approach top charges, and I've found it more prone to leading. I would not appreciably exceed the 13 grain load in .308 Win. or .30-'06 in the absence of pressure tested load data. The following are from Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition (2010)

.308 Win. #311672 160-gr. #2 alloy, 2.635" OAL 13.0 Unique 1646 fps, 31,800 psi
.30-'06 #311679 195-gr. #2 aloy, 3.315" OAL 13.0 Unique 1413 fos, 26,100 psi

[thumbs]

Unique will work also, but gets "peaky" as you approach top charges, and I've found it more prone to leading. I would not appreciably exceed the 13 grain load in .308 Win. or .30-'06 in the absence of pressure tested load data. The following are from Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition (2010)

.308 Win. #311672 160-gr. #2 alloy, 2.635" OAL 13.0 Unique 1646 fps, 31,800 psi
.30-'06 #311679 195-gr. #2 aloy, 3.315" OAL 13.0 Unique 1413 fos, 26,100 psi

Thanks. I want to use it for my m44. I found a load for Unique in that special caliber specific book. They are starting at 11gr and go to 14 I think. I'm gonna start at 8 and work up to 11 and see how that goes. Still tuning the red dot load also.

Are you guys getting notifications when replies are made to your posts. I'm not and wondering if it is something I have set wrong.